I need suggestions for a good dessert wine

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This will be something to go with a tiramisu dessert -- it's for two friends' joint birthday tonight. It should be affordable but definitely doesn't have to be rock bottom cheap -- the Trader Joe's chain is almost certainly where I'll be picking it up, unsurprisingly, but I might be able to swing by one or two other very wine-specific stores around here. I've seen suggested wines to go with tiramisu and desserts in general as Vin Santo or Moscato D'Asti, both of which look promising, though I'll need to check on their availability at Trader Joe's and will probably do that in a couple of hours or sooner. All suggestions welcomed -- this is actually for something tonight, so speed is of the essence! Much thanks!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

what about liqueur? galliano would go really well with tiramisu.

― ethereal cereal (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Hm! I had not thought of that. Tell me more.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

bonny doon - vin de glaciere

― gygax! (gygax!), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

may not be available at trader joe's but try safeway, bevmo or cost plus. it's the best ned, can't think of any better choice for tiramisu.

― gygax! (gygax!), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Noted, noted...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

galliano is an italian liqueur with a vanilla/anise/sweet spice flavor. easily recognizable bottle:

http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/galliano.jpg

― ethereal cereal (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

! Does it glow in the dark as well? Can I take it to raves?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

hell yeah!

― ethereal cereal (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

chocolate milk.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Tempting, Fiddo, but it's sorta formal tonight.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

you can't go wrong with a really big bottle of cheap white tequila

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, wait, yes you can

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

very wrong.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

cf. a good chunk of my life.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes yes yes, what gygax said about the Vin de Glaciere. Bonny Doon also makes a ... freisa, I think -- a sparkling wine which smells and tastes like wild strawberries. Possibly not good for Tiramisu, but great in general; ditto their framboise.

I'm not crazy about Galliano except with champagne, personally, but I think that's because the anise flavor reminds me of absinthe now (that's a bad thing). That's only me, though; Jody's still otm.

I'd bet eleven dollars and a lemon donut that Trader Joe's has a good, affordable Tokay, too.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Here we go, here's the freisa -- one of my three or four favorite drinks on the planet.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Tokay

A new and strange term to me. More info?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

hungarian yellow wine (and yes trader joes imports several brands of it)... not sure about tokay and tiramisu though.

― gygax! (gygax!), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Hm, yeah, I think I'll go with something more a sure bet. *scratches chin* Perhaps a bottle of Bonny Doon *and* Galliano, for choice. (There will be around twelve people at the dinner.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 15 November 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks again for all suggestions -- neither the Bonny Doon nor Galliano was available, but I did find a Moscato D'Asti which was praised highly by all and went very with the homemade tiramisu. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 16 November 2003 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Always a fan of Muscat de Rivestaltes, the licorice enhanced Frontignan and the red Banyuls, sorry I didn'e see this earlier.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 16 November 2003 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Unicum.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 16 November 2003 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Unicum is more of a liqueur than a dessert wine, surely. Fantastic bottle though.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 16 November 2003 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sorry, that's a deeply unfortunate name.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 16 November 2003 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Black Muscat, and Willi Opitz dessert wines are always good.

― Matt (Matt), Sunday, 16 November 2003 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned, c'mon, you know what to do:
1. Champagne
2. Sauterne
3. Gewurtzaminer

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

oops, that's Sauternes

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Champagne does not belong as a dessert wine, I would even venture to say that it is overrated when compared to other Sparkling wines, (Up Prosecco, down shampagne)

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Really? I would think that you'd want a dry wine to offset sweet foods.

― j.lu (j.lu), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Traditionally its always been sweet wine with sweet food, but the food is often less sweet than the wine. Bitter chocolate, etc.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Champagne is absolutely a dessert wine, man! It bubbles away the sweetness and cleanses the palate for the next bite. Always Extra Dry (translation: sweet)

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

The other thing about champagne at the end of the meal is that it is gassy and that's the last thing I want on a well rounded stomach is a load of gas.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

"Dessert wines" (of which champagne is not one) are generally sweet. Which is not to say at all that it's inappropriate to have something "dry" with dessert. But a dessert wine isn't necessarily an accompaniment alone - it can be regarded as dessert as well. (and gygax otm, as far as American dessert wines)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Think of it as French Tums--
--and you are clearly insane if you don't think Extra Dry Champagne is not a dessert wine!
Mon Dieu!

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

err, you know what i mean...

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Champagne is a type of wine
In champagne, the term "dry" means "sweet" and Extra Dry is extra sweet.
I would not recommend Brut with dessert.

Dessert wines need not be syrupy, especially not with something as creme-based and delicate as a Tiramisu!

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I also like to go for a gradient of richness, starting with a light starter, with a crisp dry white wine, a richer main with a full bodied red, ending with a nice muscat or port with cheese or dessert or both. Personal preference. For a really good meal I'd rather start with a non sparkling wine. I'll agree with the cleansing nature of it, but the gas, ooh the gas, it should be kept apart from serious eating. An aperitivo wine if ever there was one.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Food Fite!
...nah, I was responding to the original request for a wine to go with Tiramisu (dessert).

now back to the kitchen with me, to drown my pork chops in raspberry chipotle sauce...

happy eating

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Syrupy is the enemy of the dessert wine you're getting into the evil realm of the liqueur there.

(I will put a proviso on the Champagne thing as I think it is grossly overrated, when compared to other wines and other Sparkling wines, a triumph of marketing over substance but that's my taste buds.)

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

in proper gourmet cuisine, champagne traditionally opens the meal (if not an appertif).

tep, i'm actually going to bonny doon next weekend for a weekend getaway. i will give the freisa a 2nd chance at your strong praise (if they still have it).

w/r/t: tokay/tokaji - i've had very dry varietals before, i forgot they made sweet as well.

Orbit: dry is the opposite of sweet.

― gygax! (gygax!), Sunday, 16 November 2003 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed's otm about sparkling wines, insofar as "champagne" has such a strong brand identity that a lot of vineyards and vintages that wouldn't survive if they were from anywhere else in the world can do just fine; and even the good stuff is much more expensive than its counterparts.

Unfortunately, in the States (I assume it's different in Europe, but I don't know), it can be hard to find non-champagne, non-American sparkling wines. I'm kind of surprised sparkling Rieslings aren't more visible, given the Riesling craze, but maybe they're on the horizon. (Give me a sweet Italian sparkling wine and I'm as happy as a cochon de merde.)

Gygax, I hope you like the freisa -- I'm biased because it smells exactly like the wild strawberries that used to grow on the beach when I was a kid, before they were accidentally trampled when they were dredging the lake, but I think if you like sweet-but-not-overpoweringly-so sparkling wines, you'll be perfectly happy with it.

― Tep (ktepi), Sunday, 16 November 2003 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

(I'm so out of ILE-posting-headspace that my posts are all choppy, and the above post makes it look like I think Rieslings are Italian. Don't worry, my geography's not that bad.)

― Tep (ktepi), Sunday, 16 November 2003 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Tep, where are you? It's very easy to find cava (Spanish sparkling wine) in the Washington, DC area. Spumanti also seems to be readily available. As for sekt (German bubbly), for all the talk about Riesling, German wines haven't made much of an inroad into the American market.

― j.lu (j.lu), Sunday, 16 November 2003 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Bloomington right now (where, granted, I haven't found a stellar wine shop yet, although there's a Big Red Liquors that's better than you'd think) -- had the same trouble in New Orleans, where my wine shop was great about drawing attention to their non-champagne European sparkling wines when they had them, but just never had many of them.

Possibly, though, I need to re-remind myself that a lot of times when I say "the States" I really mean "the middle of the country," cause the east and west coasts seem to fare better with this kind of thing.

― Tep (ktepi), Sunday, 16 November 2003 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Prosecco is off the hook. I've always really wanted to try a Sauternes but they are really really expensive--what's a good (relatively cheap) one to try? My local wine shop is pretty good selection-wise. (Martin Wine Cellar--Tep, do you know any better NO-area wine buying places?)

― adam (adam), Sunday, 16 November 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Nope, Martin's the bomb. Supposedly the uptown location has a better selection than the Vets one, but if so, it's in stuff that I never look for, cause they seem the same to me (and it was easier for me to get to Vets). Plus they have kickass sandwiches, and Dolfin chocolates!

― Tep (ktepi), Sunday, 16 November 2003 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

They also sell this like port-soaked goat cheese wrapped in some kind of leaf thing. Even off-er the hook than Prosecco. I'll see if I can find a picture. And what it's really called. 'Cause it's awesome.

― adam (adam), Sunday, 16 November 2003 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Orbit is right about the special champagne definition of 'dry:
http://www.oxfordwineroom.com/WineTermsParody/wtresults.asp?winetype=Dry

― teeny (teeny), Monday, 17 November 2003 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

YUP. I know my champagne, really I do. Dry is sweet when it comes to Champagne, but means something completely different in non-sparkling wine, especially reds where it refers to the puckery taste that tannins leave in the mouth.

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 17 November 2003 01:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I had a few dessert wines Saturday and found the Bonny Doone Framboise to be too sweet. I also had a Quadry Essensia which has a kind of orange taste and is good but also somewhat sweeter than I like. An Italian Moscato was very good but I don't remember the brand (but it was only $7 or so at Whole Foods).

― nickn (nickn), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I have recently taken to desert wine, the botrysised(?) ones that are sometimes called ice wines. There are some nice ones from Marlborough (in NZ) like that Cloudy Bay one.

― isadora (isadora), Monday, 17 November 2003 07:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Icewines are a greta german tradition which works anywhere you can grow grapes but gets an early sharp frost. The grapes are picked after the first frost, when they have frozen solid, this breaks down cell membranes so more and different sugars and juices come out of the must. They make excellent dessert wines but they don't get made every year because sometimes the frost doesn't come in, something which is becoming more common as the planet heats up.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:20 (twenty-two years ago)

vin de glaciere is an ice wine (the pun is glaciere = "ice box", ie serve chilled)

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Botrytis refers to a mold that the grapes can get that affects the taste rather than anything to do with the grapes freezing. I have a botrytis white that I'm working on and I guess it's an acquired taste, although I appreciate it the more times I try it.

― nickn (nickn), Monday, 17 November 2003 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Tep and gabbneb:

bonny doon have a new(-ish) spin on the vin de glaciere called
Viognier (Doux) which is more subdued and complex (ie, not strictly dessert: paired w/ first course, sauternes alternative).

and i won't get a chance to give the freisa a 2nd chance until next spring.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 24 November 2003 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

!! Oh my gosh, I want to try that. I've got to find a full-on wine shop here. I might just order that online, I haven't had much luck finding Bonny Doon here, beyond the Big House Red/Whites.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 24 November 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Some of these wines are really meant to stand alone as dessert. If you're dropping like $40 on a half-bottle of Sauternes, why would you want to run the risk of having it clash with a dish? The moscato was probably a good choice, Ned -- nice and creamy but not too overpowering and cloying. You want to let your tiramisu shine! ;-)

― stolenbus (stolenbus), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:23 (twenty-two years ago)

(That was me again, I keep forgetting to log out of my g-f's settings!)

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:23 (twenty-two years ago)

And shine it did! Now stop taking over your girlfriend's settings, you wicked and evil identity thief.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, gygax, I think that "glaciere" might be a subtle self-deprecating thing -- an actual ice wine (Eiswein) must be made from grapes frozen while still on the vine (which only really happens in Germany and Canada,; otherwise it's the ol' freezer trick that we all used to do to make the grapes taste all good and sweet.

My vinolust consumes all, Ned.

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Has anyone ever actually had an Eiswein here? I sure haven't -- the only bottle in my store is like $80 for 375 ml. I'm dying to try a late-harvest riesling, too -- nectary goodness, but so damn expensive.

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:29 (twenty-two years ago)

MEAD!

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:34 (twenty-two years ago)

hey clarke b!

yes/no: agreed on a hint of self-deprecation but also a strong rally on the pun-front (being pretty familiar with the winemaker in question!).

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:47 (twenty-two years ago)

MEAD!

Ah, DB is secretly an SCA member. KILL.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Hi gygax! Randall Grahm certainly seems like he'd be an awesome guy to hang out with. There was one bottle left of the '98 Le Cigare Volant in my shop that I had been eyeing for a few weeks (kind of pricey!), but some Mr. McBigbucks bought it the other day (as part of a $400 case he put together). Grrr!

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 06:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I've had the same Eiswein several times, cause friends of mine are really nuts about it -- it sells for $62 a bottle in New Orleans, but naturally I can't remember the vintage, vineyard, or anything about it except "mmm" :) Personally, I'd spend the money on something else, but they like their wine sweet and German.

I've seen late-harvest Rieslings much cheaper than that, though (about half the price, and probably worth it if the description appeals to you), and almost picked up a $24 late-harvest red Zin last week, but went with an Australian Tokay instead.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I've had an ice wine or two. Not really my style.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

That Tokay I picked up the other day tastes like the California Raisins snuck into their grandfather's Scotch.

(I don't think it would have been right for the tiramisu at all, but maybe creme brulee or something basic like that. It goes fine with fizzy cola bottles.)

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 05:47 (twenty-two years ago)

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