"at the end of the day, all we have is ourselves"

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basic human truth or lame freshman exisitentialist pose?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i am leaning towards the former, but only because i am a lame freshman exisitenialist in the body of an aging post-grad

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:39 (twenty-one years ago)

the latter, if only because "basic human truth" assumes that our individuality is somehow "natural" and whatever happens to us socially is added on after the fact

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:42 (twenty-one years ago)

there's strong elements of truth in it.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I misread this as "at the end of the day, all we hate is ourselves" and was about to agree heartily.

― Trayce (trayce), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i think it would be more accurate to say at the end of your LIFE all you have is yourself. the end of the DAY should bring not isolation but the companionship of friends and family.

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I am an optimist even on my darkest days and will therefore set myself up for ridicule by saying that at the end of the day, all we have is each other. Whether this is a nice thing or a terrible one depends on whether one is depressed or not.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

...and at the end of your LIFE, all you have is your record collection, obv.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I imagine there's probably a strong and a weak version of this, the strong version being something like, "We are all essentially lonely individuals," and the weak being something like, "Each human is its own separate entity."

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

...and at the end of your LIFE, all you have is your record collection, obv.

*sob* trife was right!!

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:46 (twenty-one years ago)

who wants to be the richest fuck in some cemetery? not much to spend it on, eh gramps?
--Wm S Burroughs

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"i think it would be more accurate to say at the end of your LIFE all you have is yourself."

Raymond Williams has a nice refutation of this is Culture & Society. I don't remember the exact quote, but the gist is that if you die among your friends and family you're hardly dying alone, and that to say otherwise is to adopt that notion of individuality I mentioned earlier.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Buuroughs obviously bitter because his record collection was nowhere near as fly as mine

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:49 (twenty-one years ago)

what about not in the sense of how lonely or not-lonely you are, but, say, the number of people in the world who truly, really give a shit about you and all your bullshit at the end of the day?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:50 (twenty-one years ago)

the number doesn't matter. the actual giving a shit matters.

― ethereal cereal (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)

that was implied.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:53 (twenty-one years ago)

one is a number, after all.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:53 (twenty-one years ago)

the lonliest, i hear.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:53 (twenty-one years ago)

two can be as lonely as one

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:54 (twenty-one years ago)

define "truly, really give a shit" - I suspect that the number of people who t.r.g.a.s. for each of us is actually HIGHER than our defenses will allow us to believe

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

i am not a number. i am an xpost.

― ethereal cereal (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

warning: I have a feeling this thread is going to get really fucking raw/healthy

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

i think the ethereality of the defn as such is what makes the qn so powerful for me, john.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

the fact that at the end of the day it's one of those "atoms in a dog's tail"/dont think about it too much or you'll go INSANE kind of deals

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

i take comfort in knowing, as well as i possibly can, that there is at least three people (outside my family) who genuinely give a shit about my welfare. i must have done something right i suppose.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

if they don't have you why should you have them?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

that's more a general statement rather than a reaction to a specific post.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

another one: if you having them is the crux of them having you than they don't really have you.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:59 (twenty-one years ago)

obv to work it needs to be reciprocal

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:59 (twenty-one years ago)

you need to define "have" there as well

(xp)

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:59 (twenty-one years ago)

nb: i really have no idea what "to work" means here

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Buuroughs obviously bitter because his record collection was nowhere near as fly as mine

Ha!

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

haha there's nothing i love more than a thread where we swim gingerly around the shark cages of philosophical constructs and unanswerable questions for 600 posts

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:01 (twenty-one years ago)

bbb-but the record collections....!

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

"to work" could be seen to imply yer basically giving to get. Which means you shouldn't complain about other people's self-interest.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"all we have is ourselves" seems to contradict the statement's spirit of isolation anyway

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

anthony you seem to be fostering the radically insane idea that life itself is prety much anything other than "giving to get"

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

how is that "radically insane"?

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

You know, they use that phrase on sports talk radio a lot...

― Ann Sterzinger (Ann Sterzinger), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

do you enjoy wasting your time giving attention/affection/time to people who would otherwise spit in yr wheaties? etc.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

truly--
if you are an asshole, you will eventually become isolated, and die alone because everyone hates your guts and/or is tired of being used/abused by you. you may or may not be alone at the end of each day until then, but if in your head you feel alone then you might as well be.

if you are not an asshole, barring tragedy and natural disaster, you will be in the company of people who care about you and the end of the day, and at the end of your life.

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Why, just today, Anthony mentioned on the "Mainstream hip-hop is the best genre where the music is the best in hip-hop" thread that Nelly wasn't being mentioned enough. So I mentioned Nelly, expecting nothing in return.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

all i mean keith that the reciprocal factor is too strong to deny

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

you wanted anthony's attention, just admit it.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:09 (twenty-one years ago)

how about "giving so that any getting isn't completely undeserved." It might be radically insane but I'm just trying to avoid "give once you get."

do you enjoy wasting your time giving attention/affection/time to people who would otherwise spit in yr wheaties? etc.
well no. but I don't assume people would spit in my wheaties until I have some evidence of it. And I've yet to meet too many people THAT bothered by me.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Jess your question is essentially "is existentialism correct?" and I don't think so, and I know you don't think so either, because you like to dance, and while it's fuckin' fairy-dust hippie'd out to say so, dancing in a crowd demonstrates that not only do we not only have ourselves: interdependence is the rule

as I said above and will re-say, I think the feeling that one is all alone in the world is often a strategy for avoiding intimacy

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Besides, there's a difference between "giving to get" and behaving in a way that someone will respond to in a way that creates a shared experience.

Besides, the fucker never thanked me anyway. Although he has also never spit in my Wheaties that I'm aware of.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Orbit, re: yr point, however, R. Newman sings:

That man who shot you in the head
in that Burger King in Tucson - well,
he never will be punished, you know.
He will move
to Big Pine, California,
become the richest man in Modoc County;
while that may not be much it's enough.
When he dies, twenty-five years from the date,
with his loved ones all around him,
he'll be waltzed right into heaven;
he won't pass 'Go,' or have to wait -
he'll just march right through the God-damned gate.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:13 (twenty-one years ago)

i think a good working defn of "truly, deeply care about your bullshit" might be "a little more than 'not too bothered by me'"

john, i dont know if i believe it or not. but the question wasn't really posed in order to convince ME. just to discuss.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:13 (twenty-one years ago)

ILX, don't let go. We've got the music in us.

haha acknowledging the glory of Nelly is its own reward!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 48 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

as long as one suffering poet feels alone out there, probably not.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:09 (twenty-one years ago)

if we can gang up on him, then we're safe.

― typo acapulco (gcannon), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:10 (twenty-one years ago)

dammit, I was hoping to go eat dinner

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i smell POT again

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:10 (twenty-one years ago)

well i have to admit this all took a lot longer to derail into the usual idiocy than i expected.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:33 (twenty-one years ago)

at the end of the thread, all you have is yourself.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:36 (twenty-one years ago)

should i lock it now?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

yes

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

i wasn't asking you.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm not here.

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm back from dinner. Anyone tumble into the abyss?

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:46 (twenty-one years ago)

― A Girl Named Sam (thatgirl), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

It's OK Sam, we've decided that Jess's quote is in fact just a lame college freshman existentialist pose. All is well, one love, initimacy is scary but the idea of a single consciousness is a myth, and acknowledging the glory of Nelly is its own reward.

Did I leave anything out?

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

you forgot the amazing randy's place in all of this

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

This is to some extent the same question as the 'fuckability' one, no? Do both obscure dissatisfaction with the people who are known to approve of the person who raises the question? Which goes to either intimacy issues, self-esteem issues, or both?

There's also the potentially more complex question of dissatisfaction with the taste/judgment of those who already approve, though this may just be a 'special' form of one or both of the former. If the questioner perceives his/her identity in different fashion than those who appreciate the questioner, why is that?

Or does the answer have less to do with the "you" part than with the "all your bullshit" part?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:59 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm sorry miccio, but the crown must be passed on

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:10 (twenty-one years ago)

haha there's nothing i love more than a thread where we swim gingerly around the shark cages of philosophical constructs and unanswerable questions for 600 posts
-- fiddo centington (dubplatestyl...), November 17th, 2003.

That's a nice metaphor

― maryann (maryann), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:13 (twenty-one years ago)

only 486 to go

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:15 (twenty-one years ago)

at the end of the day, all i have is my bed.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

the awful puke-inducing answer is 'well if you're so worried about how many people give a fuck about you...how many people do you really give a fuck about? when did you call them last?'

ok: true/false: caution and reticence when dealing with people tends to be poorly rewarded.

― typo acapulco (gcannon), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Absolutely true.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:24 (twenty-one years ago)

sucks don't it?

― typo acapulco (gcannon), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Who can blame them? Reticence says "I am not going to trust you or extend myself as someone you can rely on or trust either. Deal?"

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:27 (twenty-one years ago)

in my experience the absolute reverse is true.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:28 (twenty-one years ago)

that was an x-post in reference to the original true/false

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:28 (twenty-one years ago)

everything "bad" that's happened to me in the past few years has been solely down to "jumping into bed" (metaphorically) (although sometimes literally) with people way before i was sure it was a good idea to throw my lot in with them.

but by and large i'm not the type of person who laments life decisions.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:31 (twenty-one years ago)

in other words, i don't know if there's been a time in my life where everything has been so "bad" that i couldn't point to one good thing that was - in some way - a result of a previous "bad" decision.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:32 (twenty-one years ago)

i.e. my last relationship ended badly but because of it - in a rather circuitous way - i'm writing professionally now.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:33 (twenty-one years ago)

ok well the puke-inducing answer is 'there is a golden mean you know, use your judgement!'

― typo acapulco (gcannon), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:33 (twenty-one years ago)

caution and reticence when dealing with people tends to be poorly rewarded = true

which does not necessarily mean

impetuous placing of trust in people tends to be postively rewarded = true

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:33 (twenty-one years ago)

king solomon, these two women both claim ownership of the same child and neither will budge. what say you?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Send them back to my chambers for "negotiations." And where can I get some of those child-servants that have become de rigeur?

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:36 (twenty-one years ago)

which looks more like maggie gyllenhaal?

― typo acapulco (gcannon), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:36 (twenty-one years ago)

we give it to the other one, right?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I will bequeath possession of the child to whichever woman can correctly answer one question:

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Hip-Hop the only popular music with the best music also the most popular music?

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:39 (twenty-one years ago)

"at the end of the day, all we have is ourselves"

if you believe that, then it's true

― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:27 (twenty-one years ago)

did you get that from a fortune cookie?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:28 (twenty-one years ago)

no, freshman philosophy

― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:40 (twenty-one years ago)

with six you get eggroll

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 17 November 2003 06:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Doris Day to thread! oh wait...

― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

At the end of the day, the sun goes down. This is the only thing which happens at the end of the day, unless it's summertime in Finland.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 November 2003 09:44 (twenty-one years ago)

"no one in the world ever gets what they want and that is beautiful
everybody dies frustrated and sad and that is beautiful"

― John Linnell (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

no it fucking isn't. laura didn't get what she wanted. she died frustrated and sad and it was NOT beautiful, it was HORRIFIC and PAINFUL.

if tmbg wrote that, then they are even bigger idiots than i originally presumed them to be.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 November 2003 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

(not everyone believes everything they wrote)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

oh gawd were they being ironic then?

they might be giants - never got them, and i don't suppose i ever will.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 November 2003 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

From what I understand yes there's just a WEE BIT of sarcasm involved in that lyric.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:22 (twenty-one years ago)

are you guys saying that there's no beauty in pain¿

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 17 November 2003 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

albert camus' idea of a team pep talk

unwitting prediction of mid-80's destruction at a union AGM of 197x

BT speaking clock's final output

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Monday, 17 November 2003 18:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I Like Spinoza!

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 17 November 2003 18:18 (twenty-one years ago)

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