Has the british "got" as the past participle of "get" now died and been replaced by the American "gotten"?

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I even caught myself saying "gotten" the other day

"He's got older"
"He's gotten older"

I can't tell what sounds the most normal to me any more.

― Jonathan Z., Wednesday, 19 November 2003 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never said gotten in my life.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

30 seconds of looking like a fish later, the answer is yes.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

No. 'Gotten' is ugly and should be resisted; like Dubya, I suppose.

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I missed getting a perfect score on the English section of the PSAT because of insisting upon the usage of "got" over "gotten". BASTARDS!!!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

The pinefox is so very right!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

me either, er neither. I don't mind americanisms apart from "gotten", which always struck me as being really ugly. I don't like "cookies" for "biscuits" either, but nothing else bothers me that i can think of.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd say "It's gotten to be the most annoying thing" but not the same sentence with 'got', as that sounds like the present tense. Or am I mangling the English language further?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I think "gotten" is originally an old English usage that died in the UK and lived on in America. I think I'm right in saying that no British newspaper uses "gotten", but I'm increasingly hearing it among British people. I'm pretty sure that a decade ago it would have been rare, maybe nonexistent in spoken British English. It now seems to me that people under 30 more regularly use "gotten", so the past participle "got" is probably doomed to extinction.

― Jonathan Z., Wednesday, 19 November 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

certainly not, it sounds awful.

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

What about "Begotten"? I mean, that's in the Bible and all, "Only begotten son of the father" etc. etc.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I try to use get/got as little as possible - my Dad always goes on about it being a lazy word and there's always something else you can use in its place. But of course I forget and use it as much as anyone else.

Never, ever use gotten.

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

begotten, forgotten etc. are standard British usage; gotten isn't (as yet)

― Jonathan Z., Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Gotten is too British! We should all say "godden" instead!

― The United States Of Sarah (starry), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I forgot
I have forgotten

I got
I have gotten

I begat
I have begotten

I gat some oranges but I forgat the apples. I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to point out here.

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Both are acceptable past participles in American English.

To me "got" sounds clumsy. I suppose it is just based on what you are used to hearing. Like Madchen, however, I avoid using it at all

― A Girl Named Sam (thatgirl), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Madchen is right about the general laziness of 'get'. It should in general be used less.

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

You lazy get.

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

the phoneme "got" is beginning to sound like a meaningless sound-occurrance after reading these posts

got got got got got got got got got got got got got got got got got

got 2 b reeeeeaaaaallllll

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

English is large it contains all sorts of crap

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Got to get and get again and again
And I`ll get you got so you remain the same

― MarkH (MarkH), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

...oh and I don't use gotten.

― MarkH (MarkH), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I use 'become'.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I teach a lot of ESL students (English as a Second Language) and I always make a point of telling them how little sense many rules of English make.

― A Girl Named Sam (thatgirl), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Andrew Farrell's example illustrates "gotten"s benefits perfectly. (Yes you could say "it's become" instead of "it's gotten to be" or "it has to be" instead of "it's got to be" but where would that get us? I mean, bring us? I always dance with the girl what brung me.)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

"Where have they got to?" sounds much stranger to me than it would with "gotten."

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I like to ask "Have you a light?" rather than "Have you got a light?".

On the other hand I have gotten used to saying "Can I get a ______?" in pubs.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

(the _____ is a clicky sound that cannot be transcribed into written English)

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

N. in secretly !Xhosa shockah!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Tracer, how about "Where have they gone?" much much better and you aren't ending a sentence with a preposition.

― A Girl Named Sam (thatgirl), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

"Where have they got(ten) to?" has a nuance of irritation/bewilderment about it, though.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, it's like gremlins took them or something, it implies that the world is machinating against you!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Also Sam I try to end sentences with prepositions even when it's totally unneccessary!! They seem to act as "hooks" to ensnare the potentially wandering attention of the person you're talking to/at/with, especially if it's in a crowded bar or a stranger on the street. i.e "Do you know where there's a place to get some pizza?" vs "some pizza AT?"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

*cue sound of nails on a chalkboard, ::shudder::*

― A Girl Named Sam (thatgirl), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe it's just the New York talkin, Sam.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Shouldn't that be "where's the pizza at?"

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

No, I believe the proper usage, rosemary (and Tracer), is actually "Yo, where the pizza at?"

― Allyzay, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, my bad

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Similarly I hope no-one has to be told what the blank in "Can I get a ______?" is, particularly in pubs.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm using more and more Americanisms cos of my yankee sweetheart, but "gotten" is too too ugly. Y'all.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

"Get" and "beget" are totally different verbs

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

gotten and y'all sound perfectly normal. ;)

― A Girl Named Sam (thatgirl), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Yall is unimpeachable.

Got sounds much emptier and less flow-worthy than the rhythmic gotten.

― Leee Majors (Leee), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

i.e it's a highly demarcated division b/w murkin and brits.

― Leee Majors (Leee), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I couldn't give a shit either way. It's an invented language. There is no right or wrong. If I say the proper way would be to use the word 'gotted,' why would that have less authority than someone else's invention? Was this person's name God, by any chance?

(Granted, since language exists for communication, following a form is a good idea if you want to be understood... but, to be honest, England and America are both wrethced shit-holes, so they're both wrong. I may take up French.)

― ChrissieH (chrissie1068), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

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