I think I may have screwed up Royally this time.

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Oh God I think I may have done it.

See, I was with this girl for a relatively long time. We split up about four months ago, at my insistance. Things had been going poorly for a while. She was unhappy, as I am a pretty self-absorbed individual who hasn't yet developed the "taking care of others" gene and i admit i wasn't doing so well in the "being a good boyfriend" department. I guess she wanted me to commit to some things that I wasn't ready for.

Here's the problem. I love her. More than I've ever loved anything (except for myself, see above). I've been out nearly every night since, been with quite a few other women, doing all I can to prove to myself that I just don't need her. She didn't take the split too well, but I haven't heard from her in a little over a month, so I assume she's moved on. Last night over gin and tonics, I came to realize that she was the only person that was ever able to put up with my insecure bullshit and loved me enough to try to help me work through all of my ego-related bizness, but I just took that for granted and gave up on her instead.

I'm afraid I've lost the one I was meant to be with. I can't help but know that I didn't do everything I could. It was too stressful for me and interfered too much with my selfish endeavors and I broke her heart because of that! Maybe we could've gone to talk to someone together, to try to work all of our differences out. What the hell do I do? Do I call her? Do I give it a week and see how I feel?

Help.

― help me!, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Why "Royally"?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Get the fuck in touch and tell her.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you part of the "landed gentry"?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Loser. Go fuck around some more and come back when you've grown up.

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Call her. But be prepared to not be received exactly "with open arms".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

you know what to do, you just want permission...

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

He still hasn't learned his lesson, though! He's not going to do her any good the second time around either. First thing to do is sober up.

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

she was the only person that was ever able to put
up with my insecure bullshit and loved me enough to try to help me work through all of my ego-related bizness

so what does she get out of it?

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Honestly, you're probably just experiencing hot feet, which is a term I just made up to parallel cold feet: even if you did fuck up, what you're feeling now is probably the fear of freefall, the fear of change, the regret of having lost the comfort of stability. Chances are it has nothing to do with her and little to do with you and more than a bit to do with gin, tonic, and time.

You've been immersing yourself in other women to prove to yourself that you don't need her, and that didn't make you happy, so now you're apparently assuming you do need her, but that isn't how it works: there's pain and discomfort almost inevitably, even if you were the worst couple in the world for one another, and you don't need to prove anything.

People get back together all the time, only to prolong the breakup. There is no "meant to be with," and if there was, it wouldn't be such a fragile thing that you could accidentally kick it the wrong way and bust it down.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude just needs to talk to her (most likely). She (probably) still thinks about him a lot and (very possibly) is mostly upset with him for being not-quite-as-open-to-communication with regards to (what she [possibly] considers) important things. Feelings things.

(possibly)

x-post (maybe) love

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

No no no, encourage him to get in touch and try and reconcile, because I really want to see the follow-up thread which will hopefully be entitled "I got stabbed in the head for being a man-slut and treating my ex like shit".

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Send her this thread and see what she thinks.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

You could be right, Mr. Bot. That's what I'm saying. I'm starting to realize that I need to change myself and that was why I never really deserved her in the first place.

― help me!, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Or (possibly) what Huck said up there. Damn xposts.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Speaking as a girl, don't bother calling.

A) It's too soon: neither of you are going to make a good decision
B) Tom is right: you still sound like a self-absorbed over-important bastard and you aren't going to do her any good now either

You need to lay off for a while and stop toying with this girl.

― Allyzay, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Plus Tep is totally right about everything.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Nickalicious: we're stepping all over each other today, like we're two people wearing one pair of pants

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

One thing I've learned the hard way is that sometimes being in love /= being right for each other.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Ew Huckalicious.

― nickleberry mann (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 17:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Nickalickamann.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Here's the problem. I love her.

http://www.hillzoo.com/pix/thumb_wwf11.jpg

The Rock says: "It doesn't matter!"

I've been out nearly every night since, been with quite a few other women, doing all I can to prove to myself that I just don't need her.

http://www.mtv-china.com/avzone/photo/video/34nothing_compares.jpg

Sinéad says "Stop biting my style!"

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

TWO PEOPLE. ONE PAIR OF PANTS. you guys never played this game when you were little and got invited over to a chalk-faced celebrity's house and personal amusement park?

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

God I'm glad I didn't have ILX when I was a self-absorbed bastard going through a break-up.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, please, as a woman who went through the exact shit this guy is describing upthread from the other end of it, I feel lots of pity and would LOVE to encourage him to harrass the poor girl more and draw out the pain of ending a poor relationship! C'mere give us a kiss. Pobrecito.

― Allyzay, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you sure her heart is broken?

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Huckleberry's unimaginative rumormongering amuses me!

Oh yeah, everybody is otm. Except Nordicskillz.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh shit! *epiphany*

I think I may need to stay away from this thread.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

J0hn is totally 100% otm.

I just think that the dude needs a lot more time with this. Making a decision to try to drag this girl back into his life because he was depressed while drinking is really, really stupid.

― Allyzay, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I was just kidding.

I am definitely NOT OTM.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:22 (twenty-one years ago)

The OP should go back and read Tep's post again. And again.

― C J (C J), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

tom and ally are 10000000000% right on. and yeah, you probably did screw up royally but maybe next time you'll do a bit better.

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm in almost the same situation, but this is the third particular time with the girl involved. It seems you have had no life altering personality change recently that would change the relationship dynamic. Until your self-expressed 'taking care of others' gene is fully developed, you are a danger to yourself and others.

Also, everybody OTM.

― Dale the Titled (cprek), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

bitches ain't shit.

― Toop $hortington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

ha ha "Toop"

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Not Toopo?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Toopoo.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

(Let's accelerate 20 posts and get to the inevitable "Pooty Poot Toupee Poo Poo R Kelly" joke.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

(Sorry, "Pooty Poot Toupee Poo Poo R Kelly-o")

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Alejandro Jodorowsky's El Toopo?

― Jeremy the Kingfish (Kingfish), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"inevitable"

― floggo horsington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

(That was kind of my point, but sadly no one else has my brain.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Except Ned.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I caress it daily.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

IT PUTS THE LOTION ON THE BRANE

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

SING!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

SPINAL HOSE TIME!

― Jeremy the Kingfish (Kingfish), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Why did you break up with her, if you loved her? Was it just because you wanted to have the chance to get with other girls? I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm just really curious as to what your main reason was for wanting to break up with her.

― maryann (maryann), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

No, the reason we broke up was actually because she put me on the spot. She told me I had to choose to do nothing or choose to do something, so I chose nothing because it was easy. The other girls just happened because of alcohol, mainly.

― help me, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

"Just happened" is kind of a cop-out, though. Alcohol doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your actions.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish alcohol made me more attractive to people, but alas it doesn't. Anyway, Ally, TOMBOT, J0hn, et. al., all make my points for me, rah.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Alcohol makes no one in the world more attractive, don't worry!

― Allyzay, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

learn to cook buddy, it's gonna be a long, cold winter!

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

You should learn to cook anyway. Learning to cook is the best thing a guy can do to improve his dating life, for a million reasons, and if self-absorption is a problem, then it's like a million and TWO.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

cards on the table is best.

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

so you think this girl is the one because she more than anyone else is an enabler of the things about you that you think are most in need of change?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:12 (twenty-one years ago)

haha gabneb totally otm

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Gabbneb's response could be seen as harsh but really it seems very OTM given the limited amount of info we have about the situation.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

seriously, i have never once felt truly upset about any breakup for more than that initial "OW MY HEART" moment, since i can always assume that at least 50% of the reason why it failed was my own emotional b.s. and lack of taking care of it.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

in other words, if you're sitting on a bunch of stuff you need to process or you just need to grow the fuck up (cough cough), then a serious relationship is not the way to go, although you dont always realize you're in one until it's "too late".

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Ultimately that's the position most people are in, though, whether they articulate it or not. But I really think the only relevant info we're given here is: "We split up four months ago ... Last night over gin and tonics, I came to realize..."

You can fill those ellipses in with nearly anything and my response wouldn't be any different. Everything else is noise.

xpost; "that" is gabbneb's summary, and fiddo jessington is otm x 2 or 3.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

But the problem, of course, is that so many people in anyone's life -- not just the original poster here, but anyone who winds up in a situation where they're not in a serious relationship because they recognize they shouldn't be -- will nag said person about it, and act as though such a relationship would be the thing to "grow them up."

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, i don't want to turn this poor fellow's lament into a dissection of the validity of the "serious relationship", but by and large, they dont seem like a good idea for 50-70% of people in my age group. whether this is down to a basic drop in 20something emotional maturity (thank you boomers) or a basic truth is up for debate.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

earlier when i opened hotmail:

today on msn:
the new dating trend: not saying anything

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

how often has someone ended up in a relationship because what they really needed was a good friend?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Your girlfriend is not your therapist. Gin is a depressant. You wonk.

― Michael Stuchbery (Mikey Bidness), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Gabbneb's response could be seen as harsh

My best ILX review. Anyway, I wasn't necessarily otm, cuz you did say she tried to help you work things through.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:29 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, but, like mikey said, your girlfriend is not your therapist.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

how often has someone ended up in a relationship because what they really needed was a good friend?

Or the assurance that they could have sex when they don't look their best?

Yeah, that could be eleven other threads, you're right.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

this whole morass of stuff is at the forefront of my mind right now, unfortunately.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"i'm not getting into another relationship until i get my shit together. and this time, i mean it."

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:33 (twenty-one years ago)

i dunno jess, i think the idea that you need to be completely fixed up & grown up (whatever that would be like, heh) before you're entitled to love seems off. i mean, helpme seems like a class a fuckup, but he's described himself as such, too. what are any of us?

i'm suspicious of this 'change your personality' idea. i don't think it exists. try to make better decisions and stick to them. drink less maybe, say no, whatever. beyond that, what can you do?

i read that article, doesn't seem like too bad an idea, but of course tainted by that mercenary get-the-ring vibe that pervades all the nu-dating shit going on.

― typo acapulco (gcannon), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:34 (twenty-one years ago)

It's worth sticking to if you can. I took two years, roughly; no dating, nothing, although I ended up having to extend that to "no dating and no one-night stands, either," and I'm not sure I could go that far again (and I wasn't always able to stick with it) (but hopefully I'll never have that much shit that isn't together) (Blount, you can have your stuttering parentheses back).

xpost; this really could be eleven threads, and I'm not sure I can answer succinctly, but for starters: entitlement has nothing to do with love, love isn't the only prerequisite to a serious relationship (and is the least important of them to making that relationship work), and there's a long long walk between "not ready for a serious relationship" and "completely fixed."

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i freak out abt this shit too; 'if i don't get some semblance of a real life for myself, who will love me?' but people are messy and fragmented and terrified as a rule; the constant demands from the culture to be responsible, whole, and at peace seem really poisonous to me! i don't disagree at all with the decision to keep away from involvement for whatever reason, helpme probably needs to just suck it up and forget it. but love can be the arena where you invent a better version of yourself.

feel free to sock me in the eye for that last line, jesus. i'm posting it anyway though.

― typo acapulco (gcannon), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, i'm not arguing that you have to be some sort of superman/woman for a relationship to work. just that, more and more, i believe the old saw about the best relationships being built on something like equality. or maybe the one about how you can't build a house on sand.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

not being able to really care for someone seems a pretty big impediment to "loving them" anyway

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

really care for someone does not = be their mommy, however

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I love her. More than I've ever loved anything (except for myself, see above).

This is simply not enough.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

to all the girls i've loved before: i am sorry you had to be the lab experiments to reach this point

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

You were almost certainly an experiment for some of em, too. I think this is pretty much just what the 20s are about. (Maybe 30s, too. Ask me in a couple years.)

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, no i fully agree. in terms of this last one i feel much more the lab rat than the reverse.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i'll go ahead and speak for the other side...

as a girl who was in a relationship with many similarities to the one (briefly) described above, i must say that many of you may be quite "otm" if i'm to use ilx language, but many of you may not be. who knows what the whole story is.

what matters in the end is whether or not you're willing to do the stuff you're supposed to do in relationships. and by that, i mean talking, dealing with adversity, blah blah blah... if you're emotionally incapable of doing so, then you really don't need to be in a relationship at all. and really, getting drunk and sticking your willy into other ladies might make you feel better temporarily, but in the long run, it's bound to make your (already obviously a little screwy, if you'll pardon my saying so...everyone else already did) head even screwier.

i suggest that you yourself just go on and talk to someone. perhaps a professional. who cares who it is, as long as they can be objective and you can be open and honest with them. work your own shit out and you'll avoid dragging someone else around in it. and as for her, she's going through a lot of her own crap right now, and if she's anything like me, she'd probably just get back with you and then you'd treat her like poo again. maybe not though, who really knows. yeah, anyway, so fix your shit if you think it's something that needs fixed, then worry about all the other crap.

this is why i never post here...it always turns into a book.

― nobody really, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

This is just so interesting to me, because I am really fascinated to hear whether 'helpme' thinks his deficiency in the 'taking care of' stakes can be improved. Helpme, do you think that sort of thing can be changed?

I have a dear friend who always describes himself as 'too selfish to be in a relationship'. But there seems to be more going on. EG, if he was in a relationship with a girl who he idolised, would he become less selfish? And is it even true, or is he just reading into himself what he thinks men are supposed to be like, when he's not actually like that? And if so, how can he be so inane? (But he's not inane.)

― maryann (maryann), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

one more thing. i think it's sort of a good sign that you can at least recognize these things in yourself. i know my ex is still unable to even admit fault for a number of his emotional deficiencies, and the fact that you're conscious of them leads me to believe that maybe it is something that you might want to do something about.

good point maryann. i think people can change. i've changed a lot in the last while. some of it's been intentional, and some of it's happened without my noticing. but change, yes, it happens.

― nobody really, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 23:49 (twenty-one years ago)

nobody really you are my ex-girlfriend and i claim my $5.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 23:55 (twenty-one years ago)

really fiddo, i'm not, but you can have $5 if you want.

i keep thinking of things to add. one more and then i will stop.

the whole "i've been going out all the time and have been with a bunch of girls" thing? yeah, about that. see, those girls are also to be taken into consideration. you really ought to think twice before subjecting more people to your emotional stuff. don't screw with peoples' feelings and stuff, ya know. la la la.

i'm done.

― nobody really, Thursday, 20 November 2003 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Being too selfish is one thing, but being too far the other way (eg "let me do that for you! No you sit down, I'll get you a cuppa! Is anything wrong? Are you ok? blablablablaaaa....") is just as bad, because it is suffocating.

Also, for some (ie me, anyway) being OUT of a relationship for too long, while great to get your own shit together, leaves you not wanting to bother with relationships anymore (eg "I prefer being alone!"). I dont think thats a good thing either.

I think in the end you just have to be lucky to hit a frequency with someone that vibrates in a good way, no matter what problems EITHER OF YOU might have. And also, be more prepared to work hard and deal with rough times if you really do love the person, not running at the first hurdle (well depending on said hurdle, obv).

Love is about working with someone, living life as a team and also as individuals with respect and give and take - its not fucking bunnies and sparkly wootage.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 20 November 2003 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

though if you have found someone who shares your love of fucking bunnies, with sparkly wootage thrown in as well, then hold on to that person for dear life

― sock me in the eye again (gcannon), Thursday, 20 November 2003 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I realised the Perryness of my wording right after I hit submit. Woe.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 20 November 2003 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Trayce, honey, that made me laugh out loud.

― Michael Stuchbery (Mikey Bidness), Thursday, 20 November 2003 06:34 (twenty-one years ago)

leaves you not wanting to bother with relationships anymore (eg "I prefer being alone!"). I dont think thats a good thing either.

i actually think this is a *very* good thing, if it is not borne of denial

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 20 November 2003 06:59 (twenty-one years ago)

the surface noise of jim's point is a good if only to illustrate that TIMING IS EVERYTHING - eg where are you in your life vs. where are they, etc.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 20 November 2003 07:13 (twenty-one years ago)

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