http://www.wtcsitememorial.org/finalists.html
What do you like? What don't you like? Should any of them be built? Take this in any direction you see fit.
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 20 November 2003 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 November 2003 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ed (dali), Thursday, 20 November 2003 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 November 2003 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)
The worst of the lot: "Gardens of Light" (quasi-religious "altars" for each victim are creepy and heavy-handed), "Memorial Cloud" (WTF is a "memorial cloud"? Someone's been hitting the crack pipe too often), "Votives in Suspension" (more quasi-religious hocum).
Possibly salvageable: "Lower Waters", "Suspending Memory" (though do we really need a timeline of the life of each victim?), "Reflecting Absence".
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:06 (twenty-one years ago)
― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:17 (twenty-one years ago)
― jed (jed_e_3), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)
― Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)
I'm so surprised! ;-)
There's one shot of "Suspending Memory" that shows a couple kneeling in front of one of the plinths clutching each other and sobbing that I find offensive on a subatomic level.
Missed that but I'd have to agree -- at the same time, it's actually an honest reflection of what will almost certainly happen there for a while to come.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)
― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)
fuck sake that image is insane!
― jed (jed_e_3), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)
― jed (jed_e_3), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 20 November 2003 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 23 November 2003 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)
and the Floating Votive thing looks kinda Japanese, which is neat.
still, Absense gets my vote.
― Jeremy the Kingfish (Kingfish), Sunday, 23 November 2003 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)
― Sean (Sean), Sunday, 23 November 2003 03:59 (twenty-one years ago)
― hstencil, Sunday, 23 November 2003 04:28 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 23 November 2003 05:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 23 November 2003 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)
― ModJ (ModJ), Sunday, 23 November 2003 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Sunday, 23 November 2003 22:26 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 24 November 2003 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 November 2003 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 24 November 2003 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)
― jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 24 November 2003 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 24 November 2003 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― BrianB, Monday, 24 November 2003 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 24 November 2003 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)
NEW YORKMayor Bloomberg has promised an extraordinary impromptu "grief summit" with Tracer Hand. President Bush applauds the meeting and is asking Hand for "time to resolverate our nation's differentiations."
Hand, the great Internet typist, has repeatedly called for a "logically and morally coherent" response to the events of September 11, 2001 on an Internet message-board. The nation's political leaders, ever-attuned to the near-daily rants of the mysterious and wildly influential figure, have insisted they are listening.
"Mr. Hand knows we are doing all we can to make this memorial work for him. Despite having lost no one in the tragic calamity of that day, nor even knowing anyone who knew anyone, etc, we do swear great fealty to his peerless taste and opinion," Bush and Bloomberg said today in a joint statement.
Asked for comment, Hand said "it's too bad that Saian Super Crew's second album didn't make good on the promise of their first. I'm sorry, who is this again?"
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 24 November 2003 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 24 November 2003 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)
TO Hand or to THE hand?
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 November 2003 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)
― Kerry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)
― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)
http://www.nyc-photo-gallery.com/LargePhotos/fireman_statue01.jpg
(I think the idea is he's taken his hat off)
― udu wudu (udu wudu), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 23:44 (twenty-one years ago)
"This is minimalism, and you can't minimalize the impact and the enormity of Sept. 11," Gardner said. "You can't minimalize the deaths. You can't minimalize the response of New Yorkers."--
I guess you kind of have to expect/sympathize with this response. But the problem is there is no memorial which could encase the entire event. The most the memorial can hope for is to be a sort of common starting point for the viewer's thoughts/emotions/memories. My two cents, at least. I think they chose the right design.
― bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 23:55 (twenty-one years ago)
I have to admit I can't, which is a bit cruel considering I have no personal stake in this. What's the guy going to do, dump paint over it all? How does that help bring his brother back?
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 03:48 (twenty-one years ago)
It reminds me of the Vietnam memorial, when some veterans were outraged because there wasn't a traditional 'heroic' statue on the memorial site. Not so coincidentally, the most conservative people were the most offended by the memorial. However, as a memorial, it's proven to be very powerful and 'successful'. The Oklahoma City memorial is the same way.
I know the guy's bereaved and all, but that's a very conservative notion he's putting forth.
It's funny how people think statues are more appropriate, when they seem to imply that people can be 'replaced'.
― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)
Unless it was an enormous one like that Michael Jackson video...
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)
I'm not sure what you're getting at with the scare quotes around "society". In my post, I'm simply referring to people who vote and pay taxes.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― ModJ (ModJ), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)
Tracer, if that's the case, then O. Nate will be arguing til he stops breathing. I'd think that the "triumph" should be that a respectful memorial will be erected soon despite the red tape. The big deal shouldn't be about whether tis a perfect symbol for the lives lost, since there is no such thing as "perfection".
― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)
"[T]here is the declaration of the organizations of World Trade Center families-of-victims that there should not be a statue of the firemen at the WTC memorial site. Three hundred forty-three of them died that day, but to commemorate their sacrifice would be "hierarchical." They want it clear that no one was better than anyone else, that all alike were helpless, victims.
But that is not true; it is the opposite of the truth. The men and women working in the towers were there that morning, and died. The firemen and rescue workers--they weren't there, they went there. They didn't run from the fire, they ran into the fire. They didn't run down the staircase, they ran up the staircase. They didn't lose their lives, they gave them.
This is an important disagreement, because memorials teach. They teach the young what we, as a society, celebrate, hold high, honor. A statue of a man is an assertion: It asserts that his behavior is worthy of emulation. To leave a heroic statue of the firemen out of a WTC memorial would be as dishonest as it would be ungenerous, and would yield a memorial that is primarily about victimization. Which is not what that day was about, as so much subsequent history attests."
Interestingly, in the NY Post today it says: "Arad's plans (for 'reflecting absence') may also satisfy the demands of firefighters who want the names of 9/11 rescue workers to be grouped together in the list of victims." You would think it's one or the other: if they don't get a seperate memorial, they should obviously be on the list. I agree with Noonan though, minus her high horse, you can have two memorials without them competing for which victims are more worthy/tragic.
― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)
*i am using this word in its traditional sense THANKYOU
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)
― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)
From a look at the website of the Coalition for Families of 9/11, whose official criteria for a memorial are available here - http://www.memorialfor911.com/memorial%20position%20Dec03.htm, they simply don't mention firemen at all. Is this what Noonan means when she says the declare there "should not be a statue of a fireman?" It's hard to tell. Maybe she was reading a previous draft or something. What they do ask for is that all memorial designs adhere to all applicable fire codes, which they note the original WTC was legally immune from.
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)
In any case I think it's telling that the firemen themselves, according to the Post, would like to be grouped in with the names of the civilians who died that day. It befits a certain solidarity and humility that Noonan appears to need a horse-sized dose of.
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:19 (twenty-one years ago)
"The memorial will be one of two focal points at the trade center site, along with the 1,776-foot glass skyscraper known as the Freedom Tower. Four other buildings are planned where the trade center once stood."
...gives me the heebie jeebies.
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)
However, I'm still opposed to this design the memorial by the relatives themselves.
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)
A thought about heroism and remembering it: have you fireman boosters forgotten how awash New York was with fireman fever? Fundraising balls, nationally-televised concerts, a brisk sale in quasi-official merchandise... The Mets even played a few games where the home team sported a mix of NYFD, NYPD, and PAPD caps. I wondered aloud at the time where the caps for the victims were. Or the random joes who just breezed in off the street and assisted people down the stairs. Or the Red Cross. They are certainly heroes, too; as are the scores of "victims" who carried elderly co-workers across burning vending vestibules and down collapsed stairways one at a time. Do they not deserve special recognition? What should they get, a statue each? A fireman to represent them all? A star by their name, or maybe two if they were high-ranking in their respective department? What kind of star should the "heroic" (as opposed to "passive") victims get? Is Noonan really calling them mere victims of circumstance? More importantly (because I don't give a rat's ass about Noonan) - are you?
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)
― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)
"I'll take 'Missing The Point By A Country Mile' for $600, Alex."
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)
― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)
― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)
― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 8 January 2004 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 8 January 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)
― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 8 January 2004 18:22 (twenty-one years ago)
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 8 January 2004 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ronald von Mises, Thursday, 8 January 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 8 January 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 9 January 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)
http://www.upsaid.com/blogaloo/index.php?action=viewcom&id=14
― o. nate (onate), Friday, 9 January 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 10 January 2004 01:52 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 10 January 2004 02:11 (twenty-one years ago)
"...but then again, they can't say its too minimalist can they?"
― o. nate (onate), Saturday, 10 January 2004 03:51 (twenty-one years ago)
LOL
― amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 January 2004 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)
― oscillatingocelot, Saturday, 10 January 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)
http://www.wtcsitememorial.org/images/fin7/sig.jpg
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 16 January 2004 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 January 2004 00:49 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 16 January 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 January 2004 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 16 January 2004 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 16 January 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 16 January 2004 19:19 (twenty-one years ago)
Never forget, etc.
― ModJ (ModJ), Friday, 16 January 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)
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