What Part Of "Finnegan's Wake" Don't You Understand??

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This is the thread where we confess as to which artworks we have found difficult, incomprehensible, totally beyond us. Not just ones we gave up on because they were rubbish or didn't have the time right then but ones that actually defeated us.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

'the double life of veronique' -- gave up after five minutes, then pretended to g/f i'd enjoyed it as much as she had.

― enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I bought a Paul Dolden album after it was in The Wire's 100 Records That Set The World On Fire. The blurb by Brian Duguid had made it sound unique and life-changing. I am happy to believe it is unique and life-changing but I have up after about ten ultra-dense head-squeezing minutes, and have got little further on the times I've tried since.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:07 (twenty-one years ago)

There's no apostrophe in Finnegans Wake nyeh nyeh nyeh.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I drew one on my copy.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i technically got to the end of 'ulysee-e-e-s' but i'm not confident i could talk about it.

― enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't but I reckon I could.

Speaking of modernist classics though, The Cantos defeated me pretty quickly. I was a lot younger but I sort of dread going back to them again.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Has anyone ever made it all the way through Clarissa, without skipping any of it?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:17 (twenty-one years ago)

the cantos aren't hard in the finnegans wake sense though - more hard in the "excuse me i don't read medieval chinese, will the years spent doing so be worth it" sense

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)

My friend Nellie's mum did Middle German just so she could read some monk's writings. Cannot remember name of monk but it's just a blip of forgetting.

― suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Finnegan's Wake is easy, ya bums. I've even read it in binary! [self-destructs]

― Dancing Queen, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 12:03 (twenty-one years ago)

That Paul dolden alb is wonderful (though I'm not gonna rave abt it as much as i used to (I don't like much of the improvising on and it really takes away from the impact of those metal machine music crossed with persepolis blackhole tapes that he made) but its one of the finest thing i've heard).

I thought 'gravity's rainbow' would have defeated me but i found it easier than 'ulysses' (I'm only putting both together bcz they are 'big' books): but i couldn't talk abt either tho'.

A lot of pop and reality TV defeats me (but ilx has made me see some good things abt it). I don't hate it anymore but I don't buy it or spend much time with it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

gravity's rainbow finished me after about 150 pages - i got to the end of Mason & Dixon but havent a clue what it was about. I re-read ulysses when i'm feeling sad.

― jed (jed_e_3), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

the first two Three Colours films I found incredibly dull and pointless, yet many people seem to like them.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

the second is action-packed!! the thirs i found more irritating, but on the whole these are pretty accessible. tbf, i just like watching jbinoche for hours at a time.

― enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Always found WH Auden very difficult and tricksy.

Plus the first Godfather film, for some reason.

― Pete S, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"Naked Lunch", tho I *was* fourteen.

Also "The Bitter Tears Of Eva Von Kant" by that Fassbinder fella, even tho it features lezzing up!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

the second is action-packed!! the thirs i found more irritating, but on the whole these are pretty accessible.

they're accessible, in that one can easily follow what is happenning. But I still found them to be VERY DULL.

the first time I saw 2001 I found it very dull, but that was because it had been sold to me as a film about blokes trapped on a spaceship where the computer has gone mad. Now I love it. I like 2001 as well.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, 2001 is pretty good, but it's no Dark Star.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

(That) [] hastened (Mr.) []'s (end) [.]

[English posters please copy)

― Myles na gCopaleen, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Cantos were a breeze, but i had no problem with an annoated guide. Now, some of Michael Snow's films and some of Albert Ayler (do i have the name right ?) compeltely fucked me over.

I am not sure if red desert defeated me, or if it is rub (i am heavily leaning to the second conclusion.

― anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't understand page 204.

― Pete S, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

''Albert Ayler''

If its the free jazz fella then yes, the name is correct.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I understood all of it except for all the stuff that was written on the pages.

I tried to go through it and look up all the references I didn't understand on the good old internet. My notes on page 1 listing what stuff was and what it could be immediately connected to took up about 2 pages of a4. I gave up at this point. I dod learn where Howth Castle is and why it is significant althoug I think I have forgotten.

― neil simpson (neil simpson), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Excellent guide here

― Girolamo Savonarola, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

adorno's 'aesthetic theory'

― tom w, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

mission impossible : the movie. there, i said it.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Myles! Flann lives! NB Myles na gCopaleen wrote a poem about I want to say Pound that went something like -- and I can't find this via google so I'm going to butcher it from memory:

Of everything he said or meant
I understood but one %
The rest was only words and sound
My reference is to Ezra Pound

― nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I was totally lost when they turned on that ancient martian oxygen maker in the red mountain.

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

If we're going down that road - 'X Files the Movie'; Wtf was all that about?

― Pete S, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

contemporary dance, I don't get it, ballet not much either.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

haha killian otm
also ed

― robin (robin), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

is contemporary dance harder to get than experimental music? i'm just asking cos the latter seems harder to me, so i'd be surprised if ed said that and really liked john cage or something.

― youn, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

If I am not mistaken, the punchnote is missing from that otherwise well-remembered Pound pome. It ought to say

Of everything he said or meant
I understood but one %
The rest was only words and sound
My reference is to Ezra £

― Jno. O'Ruddy, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Ecrits by Lacan

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Gass' The Tunnel.

Though I was mainly following it I think, up to a point. I just couldn't beat the morass-of-stuff factor.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I WILL DIE BEFORE I EVEN BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND HEGEL, WAAAHH!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Lost Highway by Lynch. Tho I've a feeling I wasn't supposed to "get" that one anyway (and I love his other films).

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 03:07 (twenty-one years ago)

And opera. I don't get the point of most opera.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

For reals? Most opera is like a really condensed soap opera with the occasional (hopefully beautiful) aria. It's one of the trashiest high art forms until you get to, like, Wagner.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 03:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, they call 'em soap operas for a reason.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 03:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess I more meant "dont get" as in "dont get why its enjoyable" maybe. Not always - some of the voices and arias can be stunning, but it seems like such a load of bombastic arse, I get bored v quickly. My own opinion, of course! :)

Good point re the soap opera thing though.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 03:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Well yes, you have to be into bombast. (Which I'm not, so much, so I'm that into it either.)

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 03:52 (twenty-one years ago)

RYL is nothing but bombast! Though I suppose "I Love You For Your Mounds" has restrained and tender verses.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 03:56 (twenty-one years ago)

wagner is satan.

― anthony easton (anthony), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 03:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Good evening and welcome to The All-England Summarize Proust Competition!!!

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 03:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Finnegans Wake, which took me 5 months to finish. I "got" probably 10% of it, which might be generous.

Most tracts on critical theory.

Even though there are plenty of movies that I didn't like (most of them have been described as "dream-like", which has become a way of warning me off a film), almost none of them have "defeated" me. I just chalk it up to it being something I find boring. However, Peter Brook's "King Lear" beat me.

― Leee Majors (Leee), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 04:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I've only read about 1/3 of FW, some of it repeatedly and at very close level reading; it isn't really about "getting", though. That's not where the joy of that text specifically lies.

Ned, RYL's bombast lies in a very specific cultural context, and that's the part I'm interested in -- the nature of the bomb(e)ast.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 04:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I also lack the stamina/patience for Tarkovsky, David Foster Wallace, Hnery James ...

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 04:05 (twenty-one years ago)

...Lydia Davis, Aram Saroyan...

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 09:28 (twenty-one years ago)

youn, I do like john cage, and even the music composed for maurice bejart by pierre henri. I'd rather the music without the distracting gyrating bodies, dancing is for doing, not watching.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Paradise Lost. The poem not the metal band.

― alext (alext), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 09:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I remembered: Gregorius was the name of the Middle German monk.

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd really love to go to one of those merce cunningham events. If the music for the event was scored by cage then it wouldn't be that hard to get.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 10:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Contemporary Dance: So What's Up With That, Then?

― Citizen Kate (kate), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 10:57 (twenty-one years ago)

after about 30 viewings (conservative estimate) i'm still hazy about 'the big lebowski'

― enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 11:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I am on page 474 of Finnegans Wake, where I have been for many years. The only thing I understand is Anthony Burgess's introduction. If only he'd done the whole book. I gave up on Shelley. Someone once explained Poltergeist to me, but I didn't really believe them, I think it's just stuff flying around. There is an advert on the telly where a teddy bear is very happy because he uses a fabric conditioner which makes his clothes dry more quickly. This idea well and truly defeats me.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

It's FW for me. I'm pretty good at completing things if I want to - yes Ulysses, yes A La Recherche Du Temps Perdu, yes the full 1001 Nights, and many more. A bunch of us went to a Carry On all-nighter at the Scala once and I was the only one who sat through all of it without falling asleep or even a toilet break. But I've had a copy of FW sitting on the to-read shelves for at least a decade. Every now and then when I'm feeling ambitious I pick it up and read the first page, and put it back in the hope that I'll get cleverer.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm tempted to say that ppl should start on the last 10-15 pages of FW, because it was the most accessible part of the novel for me. It's also the most lyrical and beautiful thing ever, so you'd be climaxing early.

― Leee Majors (Leee), Thursday, 27 November 2003 03:24 (twenty-one years ago)

i think not enough people are answering this thread in the spirit of meek submission to the genius of artistes ;)

as for modern dance, i think seeing something choreographed by merce cunningham might change people's minds about it. a lot of the stuff that passes as contemporary dance seems sort of gimmicky to me. or else people might object to the shock value of using sexuality, etc. when i saw the nederlands dans theater perform a modern version of sleeping beauty about a year ago, i was sort of disappointed with that and with the use of props for laughs. (and sometimes the execution seemed sloppier than in ballet. i don't know if this was intentional.) but the performance of works by merce cunningham i saw last january made me see that i wasn't wrong about modern dance in high school when i took it just to get out of phys ed. there was a purity and inventiveness in the movement. sometimes you might think, "how many new ways can you think of moving?" or else that's what i thought after seeing sleeping beauty. but not after merce cunningham. and even if the works were nonnarrative, i remember one in particular where you could sort of understand more about the beginning midway: i mean there was some kind of unfolding. and even the staging seemed to add to the movement rather than covering up for boring parts. there was a screen in one piece and in another there was a composite view of different groups doing slightly different things related to the others. it's a shame i can't remember more of it, to say nothing of the music.

― youn, Thursday, 27 November 2003 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

that sounds really great youn. if merce cunningham passes though london again i will def try to go along.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 27 November 2003 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)

cool. go along with kate! convince her to go first :) or maybe i'll go to london again some time.

― youn, Thursday, 27 November 2003 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

encyclopaedia of ways to wiggle

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 27 November 2003 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

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