Voting Systems

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I just got my mate to explain the Transferable Vote system to me. It seems awfulyl complicated, and you end up deciding by the people who are most unstable.

S/D please - what type of election would you have if you were playing SimCountry?

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I quite like the first past the post system we use in Great Britain. You get the results of elections pretty much straight away rather than waiting ages, it is very rare for the result of an election to be ambiguous (when was the last hung parliament in the UK?) and you don't have the problem which occurs in some systems of proportional representation where the centrist party holds all the real power, even if the number of elected representatives in that party is very small, because they have the casting vote in a parliamentary bill.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Me too. STV isn't transparent at the results end; it's difficult for people to see how exactly their vote made a difference. I also think the ability to have your own named representative is a crucial feature which you lose at your peril; the AMS system used in Germany and the Scottish Parliament seems to have the best of both.

Question for Scotland based IlxORs - the top up MPS in each region - are they constitutional freeloaders? Do they have an easier ride by not having named areas where they represent people?

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that first past the post is not appropriate for everywhere. I know some ppl feel uncomfortable with the idea that a governing or electoral system isn't appropriate for use everywhere (who shudder when they hear people say things like "democracy isn't appropriate for Africa" for example) but I *do* feel that it would be disastrous for, say, Northern Ireland to have first past the post. Even in the 80s, when the two main British political parties were ideologically a lot further apart than they are today, there was never real hatred, for genuine and understandable historical reasons, between them the way there is between political groups in mqny parts of the world. In places which do have such problems it is essential for all parties to be given a shout through some kind of PR system.

Lib Dems used to really press for PR in the British parliamentary elections but are much quieter about it today than they used to be. it's no coincidence that they are doing so much better now. If a party attracts votes through its own merits (or the failings of the other parties at the very least) and there aren't the hostilities I described earlier, then I see no reason why a first past the post system shouldn't work in any European country - I don't know enough abt countries outside Europe to comment on those.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:19 (twenty-two years ago)

STV RoXoR UR GAY.

most people (like around 70%) of people in STV elections see their first preferred candidate elected.

plurality voting (first past the post) is only suitable for countries with only one constituency and only two candidates. Even then it is shit.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:24 (twenty-two years ago)

STV SuXoR. PR moonies UR gay. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We're using for our football club board elections. It's bloody ghastly. I used to be in favour, but these put me off it for life

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:37 (twenty-two years ago)

nah... the long counts are what's GRATE about STV.

also, in a society like Northern Ireland, forcing people to rank candidates encourages them to think outside their tribal loyalties... or so one would think.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

no shurely ranking candidates only serves to *empahsise* the tribal loyalites "yipee! not only do we have the chance to vote for the guy we support but we can put the guy we hate right down the bottom of the ballot paper where he belongs myahahahaha!"

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate STV, and MTV (Multiple Transferable Vote), as I run elections and they do my head in. I think first past the post is the best method for getting a stable, active governement. I would however have our second chamber elected proportionally on the same election INCLUDING a rather high proportion no doubt of random punters picked by National lottery to represent the people who did not vote.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

.....but do you agree with my earlier statement that first past the post isn't appropriate for countries where animosity runs high?

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

The Billy Bragg idea RoxoR. Elect the Commons on FPTP, then use the national proportions of the vote to fill the upper chamber.

Ptee is so OTM. Having been crying tears of pain at 4am trying to organise counts for the Student Union I worked at, I can concur. The only people who benefit are maths geeks who suddenly become the most important people in the entire student body. This is wrong.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

But what kind of PR would work in NI, in as much as what kind of co-allition governement could parties whose entire political basis is founded on a religious or ethnic group with a hatred for the other religious or ethnic group? Equally disasterous.

(Take your point though that what works in situation X may not be appropriate for situation F).

I was a maths geek. I like you to finish Dave's equation about my job of work.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but they are thinking about the actual guys they're voting for, though.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

STV is not a complicated system to administer. the formula for calculating the quota is very simple, and involves one addition and one division. It's not block transfer computation.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 28 November 2003 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

not necessarily, because you might hate all those unionists/nationalists, but you hate some more than others. so you rank your votes so that you benefit the least awful unionist/nationalist. this means you have to start thinking to at least some extent about whether all unionists/nationalists are the same and whether you actually prefer some of them to others.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

The problem with STV and MTV is you need more piles of papers. Everything needs to be double checked and whilst it may make sense to me, there is always at least one teller who just doesn't get it.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

god bless them.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 28 November 2003 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

seriously, god bless them. How did they get into university?

― DV (dirtyvicar), Saturday, 29 November 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

one of them arts subjects where you just make it all up and stuff

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 29 November 2003 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

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Voting Systems - S/D