Enthusiasm: Classic or dud?

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Prompted by (a) re-reading my manuscript the other night after a very long day at work and being sort of embarrassed by it--I could read all my mannerisms, my own voice, in the thing; all I could see was that "no, it's true, you have to believe me" aspect I try really hard to weed out of the way I talk/act/do things; and (b) a very interesting drinking session w/a friend last night in which we shared a lot of stuff that I think we were both waiting to talk about, which felt great at the time but now has me a little worried that maybe I said too much or something.

The topic, then. Do you get weirded out by other peoples' enthusiasm? Your own? How much is too much? Is it better to curb than to gush? Do you find yourself holding back till it's too late, or bursting forth too easily and therefore maybe scaring folks away? When you see it in others, how do you respond?

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Enthusiasm in what, though?

Enthusiasm in relationships/friendships? Enthusiasm in talking about stuff you like? Enthusiasm for life/optimism?

There was a thread recently about "coming on too strong" and I'm trying to remember what I said in that.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i have the most amount of enthusiasm for my relationship & its future. Probably to the point of gushing, which I am sure others do not want to hear. personally if I didn't feel like that about it, i would be slightly worried.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Enthusiasm is totally U+K. Apathy, laziness and cowardice are the least attractive things about almost anyone.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:53 (twenty-two years ago)

enthusiasm about *stuff* can be twee, or, worse, boosterish. oh you *must* see/read/etc... real turn-off

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, Kate, kind of all of the above. I wanted to keep this as open to interpretation as possible, but I think I specifically meant toward expression of ideas/interests/desires (not specifically "desire" in the sexual/romantic sense, either)

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

One of the things that turned me most off music writing/journalism was the way that everyone thought they had to be enthusiastic ALL THE TIME, even to the point of faking that enthuasiasm.

The only thing worse than apathy, ennui, etc. is faked enthusiasm.

However, real, genuine enthuasiam can be very exciting, and therefore a classic. I have a real problem with feeling jaded lately, especially about music. So it's a joy to me to find neutral things that I can still be totally enthuasiastic about.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Done well it's marvellous (in writing). But it's very hard to do well, and if you don't do it well it can often be awful. I'm more effusive about things in real life than in print, certainly.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:24 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, I think I'm more conscious of it in talking because to a large extent I can control my tone in writing, whereas I tend to talk fast and it comes out more awkwardly than I'd like there.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:26 (twenty-two years ago)

People who feign apathy are the worst of all. Pretentious cunts.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Trusta gits!

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:29 (twenty-two years ago)

totally totally right. this is the kind of thing I hate about, oh let us say somebody like Vincent Gallo--that seems to be his whole shtick, or at least enough of it to infuriate me.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know Baz - isn't there something to be said for remaining aloof sometimes until you're a bit more sure of what you think? Not everything has to be a big honest blurt.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't be bothered with people who aren't enthusiastic

― ken c, Friday, 28 November 2003 11:36 (twenty-two years ago)

feigning apathy was the only way to survive in school.

― ken c, Friday, 28 November 2003 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom - there's a difference between "cautious" and "studiedly apathetic and oh so ennuied, darling..."

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Enthusiasm is the cornerstone of geezaesthetics.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Enthusiasm is the only thing a geezaesthete must be honest about.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:40 (twenty-two years ago)

ENTHUSIASM IS ESSENTIAL IN ALL THINGS!!!!

― the surface noise (electricsound), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:40 (twenty-two years ago)

BUT WHAT LEVEL OF ENTHUSIASM????

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

enthusiasm in writing wears itself out. cf ctcl.

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:42 (twenty-two years ago)

(I didn't title this one very well, did I?)

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom, yes, you're right, but being cautious and/or circumspect is not the same as being apathetic.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes I was trying to find a way to play devil's advocate - actually a better way (one I actually believe in) is feigned apathy's use as a WEAPON against someone who is being enthusiastic in a bullying or self-righteous way. When somebody uses the "you either love it or hate it move" my every fibre screams to shrug at them in a six-out-of-ten way, for instance.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i think it's classic when someone else is enthusiastic in the same things as you are and is genuinely interested in exchanging information about something, rather than (re: boasting) just showing off how much they know about/are good at something.

it'd dud when someone is so enthusiastic about something (esp something you don't particularly know/care too much about) and they don't listen to what other people have to say.

― ken c, Friday, 28 November 2003 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Speech mark should be before 'move' not after, sorry.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i like how in the 18th-century "enthusiasm" wz totally a bad thing (ie it meant religious fundaMentalism)

i like everything so meh

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Enthusiasm is also the only thing that a geezaesthete knows cannot really be talked about meaningfully, in as much as it represents the rapture.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course you can discuss the rapture meaningfully - terrific single, disappointing album.

(Har har)

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom and Ken both completely right.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you're striking at something that I kind of get too Tom. Apathy may not be attractive but unfettered enthusiasm can sometimes be just as painful as sloth. I mean I do find it wearisome when a person goes on and on all bright eyed about something which I really cannot get excited about, or worse, have strong feelings of antipathy towards. It can also be excruciating when someone gets all enthusiastic while having an iron grip on the wrong end of whatever stick is being bandied about. You want to wade in and save them but somehow that gush of righteousness that afflicts the enthusiast stays your heroics, and instead you sit back and let it all roll over you.

Although apathy isn’t exactly conducive to a good conversation or argument, relentless enthusiasm too leaves little room for negotiation or manoeuvre, and can become very tiresome. I also think there is an element of humour or depreciation in the outlook of the apathist, which I can appreciate and engage with, whereas the enthusiast is perhaps more inclined to adopt the fervour of the blindman, which again, I find infuriating.

― Alex K (Alex K), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate it when I want to be enthusiastic, but don't know enough about the situation/topic to be so. And so I try to remain interested yet not apathetic/bored, but often end up appearing apathetic/bored anyway. then i feel like a silly twat.

― V. Onda, Friday, 28 November 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I was about to post something along the lines of CLASSIC CLASSIC CLASSIC! Then I started thinking about D**mie, and how he seems to swing between wild overenthusiasm and affected disinterest and how this is his single most unappealing characteristic.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Matt DC has a point.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, he does. Doomie's affected disinterest is what makes me want to lock him in a metal box and hit it repeatedly with a hammer, far more than any of the "provocative" or offensive things he says.

That said, he made some good points earlier on another thread.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Enthusiasm that demands you join in isn't proper enthusiasm.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Enthuasiam that makes you WANT TO join in of your own accord is the best kind of enthusiasm.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes but he's so much better when he's enthusiastic. Actually I think Doomie is one of the better enthusiastic rock writers out there, his descriptions of new bands are always classic even if the bands invariably aren't.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Being boring is the worst sin, not weirding someone out (if you're not threatening or humorless, people can forgive that). Being boring may be the only sin.

If one keeps a sense of humor, they'll usually be alright.

― Unum, Friday, 28 November 2003 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Enthusiasm = Classic
Evangelism = Dud

― Madchen (Madchen), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i love other people's enthusiasm.

(i am looking and looking at theat word and...have i spelled it wrong? what a weird looking word)

matos: i love yr enthusiasm.

― gaz (gaz), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Sub-question: Is enthusiasm generally frowned upon on ILX? I'm not sure how representative this thread is of what really goes on.

― bad jode (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

you think enthusiasms are quashed on ile jody? or encouraged?

― gaz (gaz), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

For my tastes ILX gets the balance about right. You're encouraged to be enthusiastic, or at least curious, by the question-and-answer format but at the same time you're also pushed into proximity with people who aren't enthusiastic about the same stuff and will let you know it. ILX is rarely gushing but I'm not complaining about that. Individual tastes are mocked, yes, often quite caustically but the idea of being enthusiastic is never really denigrated.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Except by Jess.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Some of the best threads are the enthusiastic ones - especially those on ILM when a group of people are all just coming to a record for the first time and you get the "OMG!"s and the chatting back and forth about what the best bits are, before any kind of distancing critical consensus has emerged. I get the same sort of feeling reading the Fall Fashion thread.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

you think enthusiasms are quashed on ile jody? or encouraged?

dunno! i wonder if some people get away with it more than others.

― bad jode (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Calling Jess of all people unenthusiastic is like coming onto ILM and going "You guys don't really love music" just because Alex in NYC was nasty about a pop star.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark have you read Jess's posts on the Kish Kash thread?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Jess never mocks the idea of enthusiasm. He mocks people being enthusiastic about particular things, granted, but not enthusiasm as a whole.

(x-post w/Tom) Or saying Jess hates indie.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

There's a separate "Attacking someone else's enthusiasms: C/D" issue really isn't there?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Jess never mocks the idea of enthusiasm. He mocks people being enthusiastic about particular things, granted

Yup. That'll do me. That's all I meant, anyway - of course I know Jess can be very enthusiastic, but only on his own terms. Just remind yourselves of the "This is the thread where I say part 4 (?)" thread and that is the Jess I'm superficially taking the piss out of.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

That wasn't enthusiasm he was taking the piss out of!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

No, and that's my point, dude.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

that thread was pretty funny.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 28 November 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Apathy, laziness and cowardice are the least attractive things about almost anyone.

At last, I uncover the source of Barry's antipathy toward me!

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 28 November 2003 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

i was impressed (and amused) by jess's enthusiasm on the evolutionary psychology thread. imagine him lecturing to a classroom full of bored college students.

― youn, Friday, 28 November 2003 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

The only real problem I see with unfettered enthusiasm is the tendency of some people to not see how anyone could NOT be enthusiastic about the topic/thing/person in question.

But surely affectation of any sort is not even the issue here?

― mouse, Friday, 28 November 2003 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Absolutely classic. I feel so enthusiastic about so many things, and indeed people - that latter I keep in check, probably because my insecurity leads me to believe that other people will never like me as much as I like them. About stuff, I'm more openly enthusiastic. I love that in others as well, especially when there is some overlap, but I am pleased to see enthusiasm for lots of things that I don't care about at all - I like the sense of someone being passionate about classical music or ballet or food for instance, even though I'm not.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 28 November 2003 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm very openly enthusiastic about stuff. At the Thanksgiving dinner party I was at last night I was talking about Missy and Tim excitedly, and someone commented something to the effect of "every sentence you say sounds like it ends in an exclamation point." But so what; this is how I've always been about things I'm into. It's certainly better than seeming flat and bored all the time.

― Sean (Sean), Friday, 28 November 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess I'm kinda enthusiastic about some stuff *shrug*

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 28 November 2003 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

vaguely related: Overzeal

(don't look tho bc i think i was being a bit overzealous in my advice, something i don't do anymore. no, not me.)

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 29 November 2003 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Enthusiasm can be a very attractive trait, so long as it doesn't slip over the line into evangelism, as Madchen posited. I am a sucker for enthusiasm in personal relationships; I really like people who aren't afraid to enjoy your company and are open about it. It is refreshing when someone is genuinely glad to see you even if you don't know them that well, and doesn't feel the need to act aloof or distant.

As far as enthusiasm about ideas is concerned, I generally listen more closely to those who appear sincerely enthusiastic as opposed to those who smack of boosterism.

― webcrack (music=crack), Saturday, 29 November 2003 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

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