Escapism: Classic Or Dud?

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Gets a bit of a bad press I feel.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

escape is my favourite theme

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

30% classic, 70% dud.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

if it really is escapist, good. but it usually isn't.

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

"Escape-ism" is one of my favorite James Brown records, so classic.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Classic - when it involves no effort, like watching Toy Story.

― Pete S, Friday, 28 November 2003 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Depends what your escape is, innit?

My escapism was always pop music. My housemate in NYC's escapism was D&D style videogames.

I used to tell her "If I practice a lot, and work really hard, maybe someday I'll be a pop star. You will NEVER be an elf!"

Of course, she had the last laugh, because my escapism became real life and it was HORRIBLE. And she still enjoys pretending to be an elf.

― Citizen Kate (kate), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I think somethine all you can hope for is good elf.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 28 November 2003 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

at least she still 'as 'er elf etc.

― Pete S, Friday, 28 November 2003 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, you can't knock a bit of escapism but it's when escapism takes preceedence over reality, you have start asking questions. Consistently opting to elude reality ain't gonna get you anywhere and more than that, you're likely to miss a whole lot of, err, well, everything.

― Alex K (Alex K), Friday, 28 November 2003 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)

there's a nice quote in trotsky's "literature and revolution" about the limitations of realism: i'll dig it out when i get home if i remember

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 28 November 2003 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

That's an interesting point... I mean like when a musician such as Kate says she escapes via music, it kind of seems paradoxical. In such a case, escapism is the reality or vice versa or something. In a sense, maybe what happens is the reverse, and the escapism is the plunge into the more mundane routines of daily existence, work etc.

I mean, for me, art is both an escape and a reality. I might consider myself an artist but then, to consider thinking about and the production of art as escapism almost undermines that same categorisation. Another paradox. Gah, I'm sure Leon says it better.

― Alex K (Alex K), Friday, 28 November 2003 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i watched 'x men 2' last night -- which is not at all ecapist.

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there a difference between becoming entirely focused on an enjoyable thing (say, reading or playing in a band) and doing something specifically to temporarily forget about worries and fears, like drinking yourself to oblivion, drug-taking, whatever? I think so, and that's why I think escapism is mainly a bad thing. It's counter-productive, it actively avoids moving towards a resolution of bad stuff, and it's by definition temporary.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Er, why is a resolution of bad stuff a good thing?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 28 November 2003 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

or rather, is it posible? or if so, does the imagination have a role?

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Critics of escapism tend to deplore it because it distracts people from confronting the real world. But for some people, sometimes, the real world is pretty awful. To which the critic would then say, ah, but the real world won't ever get any better if you keep escaping from it. But it might not ever get any better anyway, and even if it does what if the escapism in question is still more pleasurable? I am slightly suspicious of people with so much faith in the 'real world', they can come across as too optimistic, or sometimes just callous.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Tom, suggesting that it's up to "the real world" to solve your problems for you is pointless. If your problem is, say, an uncompleted tax retrun, a dysfunctional relationship, an illness, or mny other things, it is *entirely* up to you to sort it out and if you don't things won't get better. Hell, you might not manage to sort it out, but not even trying is just lame.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not suggesting it's up to the real world to solve your problems, I'm suggesting it's not generally anyone else's business how one deals with one's problems and sneering at escapism helps nobody. Specific problems aren't always the issue anyway - a lot of people are shy or boring or ugly, for instance, and while they can work at those things until they achieve a kind of just-about-functional adequacy escapism may very well be an appealing option.

I think there are several kinds of escapism, too - there's the purely solipsistic kind (reading fiction all day, playing single-player computer games) and there are the kind which are more concerned with building a simpler version of the world where you can set or at least know the rules (music fandom for instance).

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

i spose i'm just concerned that it doesn't work, you know -- perhaps i shd start doing drugs again.

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm suggesting it's not generally anyone else's business how one deals with one's problems

True though this may be in many situations (but not in others, like relationships, where one's actions directly affect the lives of one or more others), I don't think it's a helpful conceit when the reason we're here is to debate the very subject!

At least in this case escapism is easy and harmless, i.e. stop reading the thread.

(x-post - reply to Tico)

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Well I think it's helpful if it makes people stop thinking of escapism as just a flight from problems, rather than a flight of fancy for instance. If someone goes on holiday we don't assume they must be doing it because their non-holiay life sucks.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:22 (twenty-one years ago)

not reading the thread = actual real ESCAPE (in this context)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

So, as ever, we need to enter into a more and more exact description of the brand of escapism we're discussing. I tend to get a bit disillusioned at the micro-semantic level, so I'll just agree and go on my merry way.

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I think fear of escapism is a big religious hangover thing - it only really makes sense to me if there's a belief that one is judged somehow for what one achieves in life at the end of it.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

If someone goes on holiday we don't assume they must be doing it because their non-holiay life sucks.

you can assume that of my life, brah.
anyhoo, as someone brighter than me will tell you yer imagination structures your sense of this so-called 'real world', so... do you see, erm...

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Michael Chabon to thread!

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 28 November 2003 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

http://images.darkhorse.com/covers/12/12882.jpg

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Friday, 28 November 2003 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Ain't nowt wrong with escapism. It's my life.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 28 November 2003 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

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