new friendships

Cinnamon sugar usually ends up on the top of apple pie anyway, yes? At least that's how my mom's always done it, just a sprinkling. Very nice!

Anonymous Annoyance, you are Annoying me with your lack of response to my friendship offer.

The thread to revive for this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3mjP26tGlSxRlH5TSCZNgCK/how-i-realised-id-become-a-friendaholic

bbc "describe the human experience without immediately creating embarrassing jargon" challenge failed once again

what's funny is they use the proper term for it before introducing the new unnecessary term

and yet

Elizabeth defines a friendaholic as somebody who develops a “co-dependent” relationship with their friends.

Speaking to Nihal, she says much of her life was spent trying to be the “perfect friend” as she gained a sense of self-validation by being liked by others.

“If I could have a connection with others, and they seem to find me ok to spend time with, perhaps that meant I am actually ok,” she says.

hi it me

sounds like she is describing her attachment issues with different words that don't feel as bad as "anxious attachment"

No, no, she's clearly addicted to some horrible substance called friendahol. Just say no, kids.

It sounds like an interesting subject (why does our society not value platonic friendships as much as partner or family relationships), but the author seems to be putting on a kind of performance in the middle of it, which is just distracting. I might look for a review later.

I do agree a lot with

"a lot of the language that we do already use around friendship is moralising”.

whereas in reality, those labels sometimes lack utility because long-term friendship contains ample opportunity for friends to fuck up, just like any family member or romantic partner, but friends always seem to be given a shorter leash with that.

people have a right to stop associating with whomever they want, but I've seen a lot of friendships end over really stupid things in recent years.

sounds like she is describing her attachment issues with different words that don't feel as bad as "anxious attachment"

She says having an English accent in Northern Ireland during the 80s made her “fearful” because it marked her out as “the enemy”.

wait, she was shooting people in Northern Ireland as a child? And the interview is about friendship ... as opposed to being a child soldier? that's weird ...

I have absolutely no idea why you keep responding to me, but since you so crassly went there with your stupid comment: I had a family member who was shot for the crime of going into the wrong place at the wrong time, and I thought it was a fairly obvious reference to the position of someone in a position of far more privilege than the people I’m referring to.

I’m not sure society undervalues friendships - there’s a reason there are so many pejoratives about lacking friends or likability!

To me, someone freely admitting they have no friends is a huge red flag.

Why would someone respond to a post on a thread? Maybe if you don’t want people to respond to your posts then … don’t post?

It's always great to see new friendships developing!

LOL

It's really heartwarming.

I haven’t quite figured out what the latest revive is about but it seems interesting.

Old news Elizabeth, the L.A. Times got there 14 years ago: https://jezebel.com/are-you-addicted-to-friendahol-5166658

what a depressing revive.

i'm currently nurturing a new friendship. it's nice.

New friendships are great, A+, always happy to happen into them. I am pro-friendahol.

wait, she was shooting people in Northern Ireland as a child?

wtaf sarahell

To me, someone freely admitting they have no friends is a huge red flag.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 2 May 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Who does this? Depends on the tone in which they say it.

Many people get to a position in life where they end up fairly isolated. I wouldn't put a 'red flag' on it.

i think jim means the ones who bitter enough to openly "own it"? it is a red flag.

Ah ok yes, agree. Never met that kind of person, which is lucky for me to avoid it so far.

Yeah being lonely is very different from “I don’t need friends”.

See also openly hating on activities with the few friends you do have. Lady, I just met you, stop challenging me to love you.

love new friends and acquaintances, love traveling to new places and meeting interesting people.

xxxp I have, weirdly, met several people who openly (and sometimes proudly) have told me that they have no friends.

Most of the time, it's not a surprise, honestly.

Frank Zappa, for instance.

I'm more interested in making new friends than meeting new lovers tbh

i'm good at making new friends but then i'm bad at not crushing on them

No, I can't stop crushing on them either.

Crushing, why is it so bad and hated?

i have more friends than I know what to do with and zero desire to see 98% of them atm. i'm too unpredictable mood wise these days

I can honestly say that I don't really have any friends to speak of. There are people at work I'll happily have lunch with, but I wouldn't ever meet them outside of work. I chat to other parents at school events, but again I wouldn't ever see them outside of a school context. I go to a lot of concerts, but I only ever go to them on my own. There is no-one apart from my wife whom I would confide in. I wouldn't mind having male company now and then, but I'm not actively seeking it either.

Fascinating.

So much of gayness -- my gayness -- depends on friendship that when the so-called lockdown part of the pandemic hit I suffered mild damage from which I'm still recovering.

The isolation was not easy to deal with. Not for me, anyway, and not for anyone I know.

it definitely fucked with me too, with many days drinking and sobbing, but I feel like most of my damage came starting in 2022. just after a certain amount of new national crises, Jan 6th, Omicron, home stress, and excess doomscrolling, I began programming myself to start avoiding these stressors and over time the avoidant behavior became so widespread that my memory started suffering because I was subconsciously redirecting almost EVERYTHING that entered my head, important things too.

used to wonder how excess stress could warp a brain on its own without any actual physical trauma to it, starting to figure that out. feels like swiss cheese now. I don't like to be around people if I'm clearly "off" because then they're going to ask me about it and I won't want to talk about it or lie about it either.

impacted work too in that any task that involves me working solo, giving written analyses or processing things in software, boom, I'm good, I thrive, but anything that involves talking to or listening to people talk = i try and avoid it.

I don't think I'm a terrible person but perhaps all terrible people think that. I don't really have any friends, certainly none that I ever meet up in person with. there are 2 people who I exchange maybe 3 or 4 how are you doing texts with around our respective birthdays each year and that's it, I don't meet up with either of them even though both live within 15 miles of where I live. i don't generally dislike people but I am pretty certain that I will never be as happy and comfortable and as at peace when I am with another person as I am when I am by myself.

viewed purely from a personal pov and taking in no account of how terrible the pandemic and lockdown was for countless people. for me personally it was the best year and a half of my adult life.

Crushing, why is it so bad and hated?

― Because the Nighttoad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, May 3, 2023 1:47 PM (fifty-seven minutes ago)

haven't we covered this multiple times before?

back to the article and this It sounds like an interesting subject (why does our society not value platonic friendships as much as partner or family relationships), but the author seems to be putting on a kind of performance in the middle of it, which is just distracting.

this is not a novel question and i don't feel like it's one that could be answered by this one woman describing her malfunction in cultivating friendship. i do agree that we lack nuanced language (in English) to discuss platonic relationships which also contributes to the above issue about crushes. i 100% get that "crushes" can be platonic but then what distinguishes that from a romantic crush? we need more/better words imo. it will make friendship easier and more highly valued if we distinguish it from romantic attraction.

And, if I read you right, Lechera, it's perfectly possible to have an intense attraction to a new friend without wanting to kiss or go to bed with them.

yes, that's totally normal i think? i just wish we had another word for it because crush is typically associated with romantic attraction that does involve kissing etc.

maybe it's just down to who i know but this has been a city vs. burbs thing ime. in the burbs you shut off your phone for a few hours and your friends start calling each other like, "has anyone spoken to Deflatormouse today?? can someone stop by his place and make sure he's alright?" which is awfully sweet if perhaps not too desirable.

― No, 𝘐'𝘮 Breathless! (Deflatormouse)

fwiw i'm in the city and my friends _do_ check in with me regularly to see if i'm ok. unfortunately it is kind of something they need to do, though :(

idk, i keep getting ads for "minted" a service that allows you to design a gazillion types of wedding-related things? Like, "people coming together to celebrate" is a major engine for Capitalism. It's less about atomization and individualization (though maybe our definitions are different), and more about inserting itself into every possible bond. As in, capitalism is the adhesive that solidifies our relationships? It doesn't want us not to have relationships, it doesn't want us not to socialize, it just wants to be an integral component of everything.

Hinted at this on the companion thread, but to me there is a way that new friends are often, um, preferable, to old friends since they more current to wherever I am now whereas old friends that aren't seen on a regular basis soon start to incur this kind of "catchup debt."

When my kids where first born I thought "hm, maybe I will be friends with the parents of the other kids." This happened to some degree, but was very limited and not sufficient. I actually started to become a little more outgoing when talking to people in my neighborhood or even people in other contexts such as, say, the people I might see at lunch near my office.

idk, i keep getting ads for "minted" a service that allows you to design a gazillion types of wedding-related things? Like, "people coming together to celebrate" is a major engine for Capitalism. It's less about atomization and individualization (though maybe our definitions are different), and more about inserting itself into every possible bond. As in, capitalism is the adhesive that solidifies our relationships? It doesn't want us not to have relationships, it doesn't want us not to socialize, it just wants to be an integral component of everything.

― sarahell

if i'm not anthropomorphizing too much, i sort of see these two phenomena as representing different aspects of capitalism's strategy towards self-preservation. inserting itself in all forms of human interaction gives it the opportunity to neutralize or subvert anti-capitalist social activity - to exert control over social norms, encouraging some, discouraging others. at the same time, particularly as its larger effects grow more and more obviously malevolent, keeping people apart from each other can be a more effective means of social control.

well, solitude can be hard to find in a city. that's the flip side of it, sometimes people just want to be alone, you know?

Ha, you're telling me!

Years ago i frequented this thing called Tea With Strangers. you'd sign up via an app or website for an organized get together with 6 strangers at a cafe, and everyone would talk for 2 hours. it was a great idea and incredibly well executed. the thing is, a lot of the participants were turning up somewhat regularly, so after you've been to a bunch of these maybe only half the people at a meeting are still strangers, and you either develop a rapport and become friends with them or you don't. i did, for a glimmer. it helped that some of them were very inviting and inclusive and a joy to be around. the guy who started it was really sweet but bizarrely envisioned it becoming a silicon valley tech empire.

the point that i was trying to make about nobody will talk to you in the city, is that usually nobody will talk to you in the city *if you're alone*. if you're with a small group of people, you know, that's totally different. that ime seems to be the thing that makes people feel comfortable approaching you.

there was a time when i used to go around with a cardboard sign, like if i was on my way somewhere, on the subway, or sitting in the park, i had a sign inviting strangers to talk to me. and i have no idea what possessed me to do that, except that i was having a limerent episode and doing all kinds of really out-there shit. i wasn't lonely or anything, i specifically wanted to talk to *strangers*. i mean i was working as a witch's "apprentice" in the Bronx, basically i was a professional fortune teller. i think i was on some kind of a mission, however misguided. i felt kind of badass and also angelic, like the sisters from Charmed LOL.

i had a few people come and tell me their life story, but i mostly just sat there with a cardboard sign looking like an idiot, it was burdensome and a little embarrassing. if i put my sign down and picked up my book, someone might talk to me about the book. mainly the thing that made it inviting or enticing to others was to already be having a conversation with someone else that they could join.

outside the city it's different. i don't know. i go to remote-ish nature areas in Long Island by myself and some people want to chat. 'hey! another person!! how's the water today?? i think i saw you here last week!'

old friends that aren't seen on a regular basis soon start to incur this kind of "catchup debt."

― Because the Nighttoad (James Redd and the Blecchs)

yes. that and we're not necessarily enthusiastic about the same things we were into 15 years ago. are there still activities we both enjoy or is there stuff were're both excited to talk about?

i think the social expectation is that someone who wants to talk to a stranger has to start the conversation. i'm not sure, though, understanding social expectations doesn't really come naturally to me.

The big issue for me is that I am many people's "old friend" and maybe 2-3 of them have time/have made the priority to actively be my friend anymore (make time to talk, hang, visit, whatever). The remainder of these people still care about me, but they aren't there/aren't able to be for me in a subatantial way beyond the group text. We are not talking about old friends, though.

Everyone has different thresholds for determining that someone is coming on too strong or seems excessively aloof or whatever falls in betweeen. That we would be able to manage modern adult life (with or without kids) AND develop the intimacy required for satisfying friendship is a total fucking miracle. That it could be sustained (or even initiated) during a global pandemic seems like a gargantuan ask.

In the event that someone truly becomes a new friend, I think it's a beautiful miracle and something to be revered/cherished as quietly or as loudly as one sees fit (again, this depends on the person)

As for me --> I have a pretty large number of people in my life who are acquaintances or just-below-the-surface circumstantial pals (people I have played music with, new work pals at new jobs, internet friends) -- and I love that and am glad to have people to shoot the shit with. But only one person I can say has moved from being a total stranger to a friend I can rely on during the last 5 years.

i don't know if it's a social expectation exactly, but yeah, that would have been a much more effective way to go about it with a higher success rate. uh, i feel like if you have a sign, you're kind of saying other things with it. like 'please participate in my cutesy little social experiment/art project' and probably 'i am a person who has talked to lots of strangers' and, like, i'm comfortable drawing negative attention to myself and taking risks. none of which is hugely helpful to the aim of having rewarding conversations with strangers, but i was even stupider than i am now. xp

Everyone has different thresholds for determining that someone is coming on too strong or seems excessively aloof or whatever falls in betweeen.

yes, navigating this is unpleasant and certainly a challenge

i don't know if it's a social expectation exactly, but yeah, that would have been a much more effective way to go about it with a higher success rate. uh, i feel like if you have a sign, you're kind of saying other things with it. like 'please participate in my cutesy little social experiment/art project' and probably 'i am a person who has talked to lots of strangers' and, like, i'm comfortable drawing negative attention to myself and taking risks. none of which is hugely helpful to the aim of having rewarding conversations with strangers, but i was even stupider than i am now. xp

― No, 𝘐'𝘮 Breathless! (Deflatormouse)

i, uh. i don't think "stupid" is how i'd describe it... like my particular framing is coming one of being, like, rejection sensitive and neurodiverse and having just a shit-ton of social anxiety, particularly regarding new and unfamiliar situations. it's a lot easier for me to hang out a shingle and say "hey please talk to me" than it is for me to talk to somebody else. like the other day i was passing somebody on the street and i said her pants were cute, which they were, and she just kind of blanked me, and that sort of thing just makes me feel like total shit even though it's, like, normal to not respond when a total stranger just talks to you. so it's super relatable for me.

The algs are sending me articles with headlines like "I am a 43 yo with no friends". Oh no!

friends are good there's lots of different types of them, very useful

well

the idea of different kinds of friends is key

where can i find the kind of friend where, if i threw a party and invited everyone i knew, well i would see the biggest give would be from them, and then i could sing to them "thank you for being a friend"

need a few friends who compete with each other to give me the biggest gift when i throw a party

yes otm

lol map

My definition of a friend used to be "somebody who I could ask to help me move some stuff up several flights of stairs when I moved" but I have had to reconsider that in recent decades.

the old reliable friends, 2 hunks and a truck

Say more, z_tbd

(I feel like there’s a whole rainbow of friendship types but I’d have to really think on it to break them down)

Do it!

i'll never forget the day i met hunk #1. it was the same morning as the day i met hunk #2, but i'd seen the truck in town before

i remember a lot of our early conversations centering in on my furniture and the stairwell. they seemed oddly fixated on it

1 friend
2 friend
red friend
blue friend

i do have actual thoughts about friendship, though, might try to type them up a bit later

this is not part of those potential actual thoughts, but i do think one funny friend category is "my friend who is almost my therapist"

weird typo: i meant "my friend who is also my therapist"

I am THAT friend for at least one very longtime friend, which used to frustrate me but I’ve kind of accepted it now

(Meaning I’m the therapist)

oh, i meant actual therapist! tbh, though, i was thinking of the friend in The Room who is tommy's friend and therapist, but upon visiting wikipedia i see that the friend is a psychologist by profession, rather than Tommy's psychologist, if that makes sense.

however, my first therapist was awesome, and i would have loved to have been his irl friend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqyVe8tfLm0
I ain't asking much of you

need a few friends who compete with each other to give me the biggest gift when i throw a party

― ꙮ (map)

a big box with waldo jeffers inside

aka hunk #1

hunk lore: they both believe they are hunk #1

ILE has reached its limit

Hunk would smash!

This is great team building, I think we’re ready to design a search engine

Using only marshmallows and dry spaghetti strands!

aka hunk #1

― ꙮ (map)

call me when you get to hunk #49

rainy day hunks #12 & #35

so many hunks u just shout out their number and they show up

Like hunk never happened

"friend??"
https://imgur.com/a/rIxxYOK

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Lol!

I couldn’t get it to work either but it was funny.