Immortal folks from myths and legends. Like Koshchei, the Wandering Jew, and so on.

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This is kind of a "help me with my homework" question, yes, but the thing is that if you pop "immortal," "immortality," "myth," "legend," etc., into Google, what you get is a whole lot of video game stuff. And it's actually "help me with my next novel." And you can totally ignore it.

I'm trying to remember as many of the various immortal folks from myths and legend as possible -- the Wandering Jew was the first one who came to mind, the guy who Jesus made immortal (until the Second Coming) as punishment; then I remember Koshchei (Koczey, etc.) the Undying, the Russian guy whose death is hidden in an egg in the thrice-tenth kingdom.

Folks who aren't immortal because they're gods or half-gods or whatever but who were somehow given or discovered immortality. That's more interesting to me. There are undoubtedly others, and I'm sure in 7th grade I could've rattled off a dozen names, but I'm coming up blank. The memory problem again.

So this is the thread to list and talk about those folks.

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 6 December 2003 01:55 (twenty-one years ago)

The Count of St. Germain.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 6 December 2003 02:04 (twenty-one years ago)

er, does Faust count?
Dorian Grey?

Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 6 December 2003 02:12 (twenty-one years ago)

michael jackson

Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 6 December 2003 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"The story of the Blue Willow pattern is depicted on oriental china. Many people are familiar with the legend that tells of a beautiful girl, Koong-shee, and her lover, Chang, whose love blossomed under the bows of the willow tree. Koong-shee's father is an oppressive tyrant who disapproves of the match because Chang is a commoner. The father sends men to kill Chang. Koong-shee commits suicide after watching her father's men kill her lover. The legend has it that the gods took pity on them and transformed their souls into immortal lovebirds that soar high together forever. "

http://www.thewhitewillow.com/history.html

kephm, Saturday, 6 December 2003 06:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Ooh. Lots of good suggestions here. Thanks, folks :)

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 6 December 2003 07:00 (twenty-one years ago)

geir hongro

man, Saturday, 6 December 2003 07:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Prometheus?

Kingfish Beestick (Kingfish), Saturday, 6 December 2003 08:15 (twenty-one years ago)

the Monkey King, an ancient chinese legend written about by Wu Cheng-en & of course adapted for classic 70s tv series 'Monkey'. He becomes immortal after eating peaches from the Jade Emperors garden.

zappi (joni), Saturday, 6 December 2003 08:52 (twenty-one years ago)

The Count of St. Germain.

did you ever see the photo "The Unexplained" ran of some chancer in the 1970s who claimed to be the Count of St. Germain? He looked like some chancer from the 1970s.

DV (dirtyvicar), Saturday, 6 December 2003 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Foucault's Pendulum to thread!

caitlin (caitlin), Saturday, 6 December 2003 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

the sage Babaji is still alive in the Himalayas. Google him.

Agastya. Trishanku. Yayati...


Hercules. Sisyphus (but in a bad way). and yes Prometheus:

Chiron was immortal and could not end by death the intolerable pain of the wound he received from the arrow of Heracles (see M/L, Chapter 22). He exchanged his immortality with Prometheus, dying in place of Prometheus when he was released by Heracles
http://www.classicalmythology.org/chaptertopics/25/summary.html

Osiris was supposed to be immortal but there were mad problemz!!

Vic (Vic), Saturday, 6 December 2003 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

if you wanna go all assyrian-babylonian: Utnapishtim!! is your man. thats the coolest name ever. behold:


Atrahasis and Ut-napishtim:
Like the Sumerian Ziusudra (the Xisuthros of Berossus) or Noah from the Pentateuch, were the long-lived survivors of the great flood which wiped out the rest of humanity. In Atrahasis' case, Ellil had grown tired of the noise that the mass of humanity was making, and after a series of disasters failed to eliminate the problem, he had Enki release the floodgates to drown them out. Since Enki had a hand in creating man, he wanted to preserve his creation, warned Atrahasis, and had him build a boat, with which he weathered the flood. He also had kept his ear open to Enki during the previous disasters and had been able to listen to Enki's advice on how to avoid their full effects by making the appropriate offerings to the appropriate deities. He lived hundreds of years prior to the flood, while Utnapishtim lives forever after the flood.

Utnapishtim of Shuruppak was the son of Ubaratutu. His flood has no reason behind it save the stirrings of the hearts of the Gods. As with Atrahasis, Utnapishtim is warned to build an ark by Ea. He is also told to abandon riches and possessions and seek life and to tell the city elders that he is hated by Enlil and would go to the watery Abyss to live with Ea via the ark. He loads gold, silver, and the seed of all living creatures into the ark and all of his craftsmen's children as well. After Ea advises Enlil on better means to control the human population, (predators, famine, and plague), Enlil makes Utnapishtim and his wife immortal, like the gods.

im havin fun researching your homework 4 u!

Vic (Vic), Saturday, 6 December 2003 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

oh and another Indian one: Yudishtir - can't forget the main protagonist of one of the two epics!

Vic (Vic), Saturday, 6 December 2003 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

If you're having a hard time Googling:
The name is "Kotschei" with a T
and
the Wandering Jew's name was Ahasuerus. Its spelled "Ahasverus" in some old roman accounts. (because the romans had no letter "u")

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Saturday, 6 December 2003 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

someone I was at school with told me that the Wandering Jew had apparently settled down somewhere on the banks of the Great Lakes in North America.

DV (dirtyvicar), Saturday, 6 December 2003 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Gilgamesh?

(He was briefly in the Avengers in the late 80's/early 90's, oh and it's some epic poem too)

jel -- (jel), Saturday, 6 December 2003 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

http://alexm.here.ru/mirrors/www.enteract.com/jwalz/Eliade/159.html

jel -- (jel), Saturday, 6 December 2003 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

yudishthir wasn't immortal, was he?? isn't there some story where
he dies and has to spend ten seconds in hell because of that one
lie he told to kill drona. bheeshma was sort of immortal, in that
he was allowed to pick the moment of his death, a boon granted because
he promised to stay celibate!! bheeshma means "horrible oath" or something like that. i love the mahabharata.

dave k, Saturday, 6 December 2003 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Gilgamesh! He was an Eternal (the one who was in the Avengers)! The Forgotten One. He was too cool.

Lots of excellent suggestions (and I need to read more of the Mahabharata, I've only read selections). Count St Germain is one I keep vacillating on because of Yarbro's book(s?) about him; I'm not doing vampires, but I'm not sure how many readers realize she didn't make him up, and I don't want to come across as derivative of her. There's good material there, though.

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 6 December 2003 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

there's some lad in Greek myth who wants to be immortal so for the laugh the gods give him some ambrosia so he becomes unable to die. But sadly he continues to age and becomes more and more decrepit.

DV (dirtyvicar), Saturday, 6 December 2003 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

In LDS Folk Mythology, this task is done by the three nephis
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/nephites.html

anthony easton (anthony), Sunday, 7 December 2003 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

...so for the laugh the gods give him some ambrosia so he becomes unable to die. But sadly he continues to age and becomes more and more decrepit.
The Greek Gods were a bunch of sadistic fucknuggets and outta have been put down. I say we take off and nuke Mount Olympus from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.


saturation nuke Mount Olympus from orbit.

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Sunday, 7 December 2003 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

(*Custos is struck by a lightning bolt*)


saturation nuke Mount Olympus from orbit.

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Sunday, 7 December 2003 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

No you could say Yudishtir was immortal because whereas all his brothers the Pandavas and his wife Draupadi died on their trek in the Himalayas after they had renounced their kingdom, Yudishtir was greeted by (the king of the gods) Indra and allowed to peacefully leave his physical frame by his own accord, and was then taken in his astral body up to heaven - after first spending the 10 seconds (or minutes?) in hell like you mentioned (it was like his "final test" you could say, since he said he'd prefer to stay in hell if his brothers had to stay there - Indra was tricking him!! by showing his brothers captive there and the Kauravas in heaven). He never really experienced physical "death" therefore, he just ascended to heaven - and wanted to bring his dog w/ him (who turned out to be the god of death Yama, another test)! Oh another Indian one is the brahmin boy Nachiketas, the son of the sage Vajasravas who confronts Yama when his father tells him he wishes he was dead, and gets all up in Yama's grill by asking him all these questions and everything, and then winning immortality. Basically you could say this applies to all the people who become sages or rishis, because none of them have to die! Also to other young characters like Prahlad, Dhruva, etc

Dirty Vicar, I think you're thinking of the Aurora and Tithonous story, in which the guy grows so oldto become a grasshopper? From some "goddess" website:

Like the dawn, whom this goddess personifies, Aurora, also known as Eos, lives her life in brief encounters, outshone and obliterated by the majestic Helios, whose golden chariot she heralds each morning.

Her fleeting, but eternally recurring beauty, is expressed through her sad and ill-fated love affairs. Her most famous tragic affair of the heart is with her own husband, Tithonous. Tithonous was a mortal, one of the leaders of the Ethiopians in the Trojan War. Falling hopelessly in love with him, Aurora begged Zeus to make him immortal. Her wish was granted, and for a time the lovers were deliriously happy, bearing a son, Memnon. But soon Aurora recognised her fatal mistake. She had pleaded for immortality, but not for eternal youth. Poor Tithonous, as a lesson to us all perhaps, inexorably ages. When his first grey hairs appear, Aurora rejects his caresses, and as he ages more and more, she confines him to a single, closed room until his cries diminish, but never cease. The myth writers eventually took pity on him and turned him into a grasshopper. The sad story of Aurora and Tithonous is beautifully told in Tennyson's poem "Tithonous", and the message best conveyed by the single line, "And after many a summer dies the swan."

That was pretty mean of Zeus. So many of the Greek gods were just selfish bastards. Oh another candidate for this is Aurora's other lover Ganymede, a hot youth Zeus kidnapped/immortalized, turning him into his sex-slave-bitch and ambrosia-server-boi.

Vic (Vic), Sunday, 7 December 2003 05:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't some (Roman?) myth writers invent the idea of the Elysian Fields so that Greek heroes like Achilles could have a paradisical eternal life?

Leee Trevino (Leee), Sunday, 7 December 2003 07:17 (twenty-one years ago)

is the Golem immportal? If not, how did the Golem die? I love the story of High Rabbi Löw, not least because his name looks so silly to an English person.

MarkH (MarkH), Sunday, 7 December 2003 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't believe the golem is "immportal".

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 7 December 2003 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

From what I remember of the Epic, Gilgamesh didn't achieve immortality - he found the plant that would grant it, but didn't actually eat it.

I could be misremembering this, though.

caitlin (caitlin), Sunday, 7 December 2003 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

if i recall Gilgamesh went on this long quest to find it so he could bring his dead friend back to life: after months and months (years and years? dunno) he finally got it from Utnapishtim, and then on his way back a snake ate it while he was bathing in a river. d'oh!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 7 December 2003 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I can fix Gilgamesh :) So far in my outlines, there aren't any legends/source material coming through unfiltered. I've always gotta take an "oral tradition screwed it up" approach with these things or the story doesn't hold my interest.

I'm almost certainly using Dracula, for instance, but not as a vampire. (This story originated in part because of a conversation about what worked about my vampire story, and how those notes could be hit without vampires, since the "vampire story" tag is keeping me from selling it.)

I'm really intrigued by the Nephites, and am going to have to read more about them.

Tep (ktepi), Sunday, 7 December 2003 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

the golem was "retired" by the rabbit who created him. to bring him to life he inscribed the word "emet" (truth) on his forehead; erasing the letter aleph transformed the word into "met" (death) and there ya go.

s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 7 December 2003 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

The golem was created by a bunny?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 7 December 2003 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

oh my god

s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 7 December 2003 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess I'm going to Gehenna then

s1utsky (slutsky), Sunday, 7 December 2003 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait, I don't understand this like whatsoever AT ALL - So far in my outlines, there aren't any legends/source material coming through unfiltered. I've always gotta take an "oral tradition screwed it up" approach with these things or the story doesn't hold my interest.

explain again? i'm probably alone but that made _no_ sense to me

Vic (Vic), Sunday, 7 December 2003 18:39 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a novel, so I'm not just taking the original legends as they stand: I'm using them as the basis for other stuff. Different things get changed depending on what I need, although I'm strictly avoiding a Highlander-type "everyone's immortal for the same reason" thing.

Tep (ktepi), Sunday, 7 December 2003 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)

If not, how did the Golem die?
To "activate" a Golemim, the alchemist paints the Hebrew word "truth" on it's hand or forehead.
By wiping away the first letter of the word, it becomes the Hebrew for "dead"; At that point, the Golem "deactivates".

It's always good to have a "shutoff switch" for a rampaging clay monster.

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Monday, 8 December 2003 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

oops, slutsky beat me to it.
Please disregard my previous post.

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Monday, 8 December 2003 03:09 (twenty-one years ago)

The dust of the golem is still in the attic of the Altneushul of Prague and can still be reanimated!!

I am so disappointed that I am too young and female to create a golem.

tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Monday, 8 December 2003 03:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Barbara Streisand's new flick, a period peice/horror movie.
Yentl II: When Golemim Attack!

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Monday, 8 December 2003 04:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Build your own golem:

http://golem.plush.org/

colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Monday, 8 December 2003 04:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Oooh I get it now: it's a novel. I thought this was for a research paper, so thats why I was confused, my bad

Vic (Vic), Monday, 8 December 2003 06:21 (twenty-one years ago)

it's said that whoever looks upon the golem's remains goes mad

s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 8 December 2003 07:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Sounds like a job for Matt Murdock.

Leee Trevino (Leee), Monday, 8 December 2003 08:04 (twenty-one years ago)

interesting: in the version of the story I heard, the rabbi(t) places a roll of scripture in the golem's mouth to activate it and takes it out to deactivate. One day he forgot to take out the acripture at the beginning of Shabbat, the golem was then in a quandary - it had to obey its master and do some work, but it couldn't work on the Sabbath! As a result of this dilemma it went on the rampage, terrorising the ppl in the synagogue.

MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 8 December 2003 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Indiana Jones.

Also Cain?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 8 December 2003 10:46 (twenty-one years ago)

In a completely different story I ended up not writing, I assumed Cain died in the Flood, but that doesn't have to be the case. The midrash has a couple different accounts of his death, at the hands of different descendents, of course.

Either way, though -- good call. So's Indy :)

(I'm clearly now writing Indiana Jones vs. Daredevil in Golems-a-Go-Go!)

Tep (ktepi), Monday, 8 December 2003 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

i was fascinated by the almost total lack of consciousness that the golem was said to have in the story that i read. it did rampage, but in sort of unknowing way - knocking things over, bumping into people, but not really on purpose. it just wasn't given anything else to do, because as mentioned upthread it wasn't deactivated, so it lurched around until order was restored.

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 8 December 2003 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)


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