Liverpool vs Grimsby

Jevons the ex Everton reserve and Liverpool supporter dumps the Reds out of the Worthington Cup. What a story!

Pinefox as you are a Toffee supporter what is the low down on the Everton 15 year old striker? (Can't remember his name)? recently drafted into the England u17 squad.

Liverpool had 20 shots in the game, 18 on target therefore 18 saves or goal-line clearances. Fair play to Grimsby.

As Houllier said today, "I can't be angry, my team played well"

Oh! Pinefox in Evertonian shocker! Can you believe it?

The snatch of commentary which accompanied the Jevons goal shown on breakfast telly this morning suggested that it (the commenatry at least) was vintage.

By the way Cabbage, you can deliver my tofu at the Chesterfield- Exeter game next season.

Tim did you get a jokebook for your birthday ;-)

I haven't seen the goal yet but everyone here at work who has described it as a corker.

I thought old PF was a yiddo?

That scoreline send a sympathetic shudder of recollection through me last night. It led me to remember a cold and rainy day about five years ago when I travelled up with friends to see West Ham play Grimsby in the FA Cup.

Not only did I have the worst battered cod I have EVER tasted in my life before the game, the wily fishermen also battered us 3-0. It still stands as one of the most depressing matches I've been to.

Chris: yes.

If you are suggesting that PF is a supporter of Tottenham Hotspur then you are correct. Martian's formidable fact mountain appears to have let him down (or he might just have been retaliating for PF calling him "bonkers"). I demand a public enquiry, but I bet I get fobbed off with a judicial review. Again.

yorkie bars for all...the taste of football

I should add that my beloved Crystal Palace knocked the then holders, Leicester City, out of the same competition last year, more of an achievement then that it would be now.

Grimsby the new Tranmere, anyone?

They knocked Liverpool out in 1990, too, of course. *That* was fun and a half.

If you don't cut this out I'm gonna make a thread abotu baseballl

do it do it

L'Hospitalet knocked Real Sociedad out of the cup last night. Well I thought it was interesting. They play on Astro-turf. I thought PF was Charlton through and through, due to that touching reference to them in his "Parks and Gardens" piece in the legendary Papercuts.

Miller, that is interesting, whereabouts is l'hospitalet? it rings a bell as being round barca way. Are Sociedad the ones managed by Toshack? not for much longer if so.....

and Tim, obviously I have that book already, hardback first edition, natch.

That's a good point.

They are my second team.

Fascinating: Pinefox is a Spurs fan; Robin Carmody loves Crystal Palace; Trevor is a Hammers man; Omar watches Ajax + roots for Real Madrid; I am a Newcastle United fan with a Sparta Rotterdam season- ticket. Which other teams fans are represented on ILE?

chesterfield/Liverpool symbiosis type thing, the only time they played each other in my supporting life I supported Chesterfield. I have a big soft spot for Barcelona too.

I support Exeter City, with soft spots for Rayo Vallecano, Morecambe and Hearts.

i am with robin. i sat thru 120 minutes of palace titting about while wednesday won on penalties cos fat pressman is a good guesser. not worth 10 quid. at least i didnt have to go home to london like tho ther poor sods. as i waited for a tram, the palace coaches went by and all the wednesday fans standing round me jeered and waved at them.

it was 10.30 pm.......that would have been harsh as fuck

Gillingham. Hey, I like 'em.

I support the, ahem, Chicago Fire, root for Arsenal in the Prem, and keep an eye on most of the teams with Yanks overseas (including the aforementioned Palace, whom I listened to yesterday on the Interwebby radio -- Kirovski missing a sitter and a PK yesterday, which is still more than he ever does for the U.S.)

Portsmouth.

Tottenham Hotspur!

But Hanle y, there are already two posts about baseball!

L'Hospitalet is/was the industrial area just outside Barcelona. Nowadays there is nothing between it and Barceloan, that is to say they merge, but L'Hospitalet is a different municipality. Their football team plays in the equivalent of the English third (second now?) division. I watched half of their match the ohter night on TV, it was surprisingly entertaining, I think I saw about five goals. So I'm not surprised they beat Real Sociedad, who are dire. Come to think of it, the other night they were playing Logroñes, who also beat first division (or Primera Liga , as the BBC would have it) opposition. Yes; Real Sociedad are managed by Toshack, but I don't *think* he'll be getting the sack, he's supposed to be 'director of sport' or something, rather than just common or garden coach, but they can't find anyone willing to take the job. So there he is, regularly getting sent off. Boavista's coach turned them down. Two players were recently caught in a disco after *losing a match*. Shocking. They have two points from a possible ten million.

There, I bet you're glad I don't live near any of you. And I don't even like football this year.

Rayo Vallecano are doing shit as well.

This may be apt place to say: sad about Houllier. Will he quit? Carry on? Ever be the same again? Does the sorry episode give LFC an excuse for the fact that 2000-2001 was plainly a False Dawn?

I feel that most footy fans, whoever they support, will be sorry to hear about GH. He really is that rare kind of genuinely likeable manager.

One or two Toffee IL* characters are, of course, are free to disagree - indeed, as Des once said: frankly, I'll be disappointed if you don't.

No, I'm quite fond of Houllier. Aside from The Most Overrated Player Of All-Time (initials KD), I can't think of too many L'pool bosses I've disliked. Souness and Evans I *loved*, of course.

I still don't quite see why Sir Alex got to be Sir Alex and Bob Paisley had to make do with an OBE.

Paisley not being knighted? Because football was going through some pretty rough times and the government of the day would probably have banned it if they could, Mike. Or something like that, anyway.

There are a lot of clubs out there who'd *love* to win three trophies in a False Dawn season, Reynard.

Ambrose: that must have been a pisser of the first order. Some result against Wimbledon, though! Almost makes up for losing at home to the Bermondsey mob. But not quite: only a win at The New Den could do that.

Oh and Gillingham is my second team as Ned may or may not know ...

RC: I know, absolutely - we'd all like the trophies. What I mean is, last season was their peak. A very great peak, but they won't get any better from now on.

we'll see PF, we'll see. Personally I think Thommo will be there in charge for the rest of the season with GH slipping him the odd note or two. There's lots of talk of King Kenny coming back, personally I don't want him(however godlike he may have been as a player) returning, not after the way he left last time.

A couple of quick things: old Kenny can't be the most overrated player of all time while Bryan Robson stalks this earth, and he was a better manager. And I don't known how useless or not Kirovski is for the US, but he's doing just dandy down here.

I think Jonesy's being a bit harsh about poor little Keiron Dyer.

Paisley=old school labour supporter, no chance of a knighthood with Thatcha in charge (or Blair for that matter).

Hold on, surely former dockyard shop steward Ferguson is a fairly solid Old Labour type too? I tend towards Robin's account of the acceptability of football to the establishment. It doesn't run strictly along party lines either: Major was a declared football fan as was that toad Mellor. Both Chelsea, naturally.

Blame Hornby.

And I don't known how useless or not Kirovski is for the US, but he's doing just dandy down here.

Steve Bruce has the good sense to play him in a position that suits him. The U.S. boss seems to insist on that Italian big-little forward combination -- despite better results with a smaller, more skilled lineup (granted those more skilled players are always injured) -- and trots Jovan out as a targetman expected to primarily command the box, play with his back to goal, and make intelligent runs off of the ball, none of which are his best qualities. He ends up disappearing for large portions of the game.

Methinks Paisley may not have been so cosy to Blair as Ferguson, otherwise agree with Robin C (Can't imagine Fergie getting a gong during Thatchers reign).

Yes re. Dyer. I mean, kicking a man while he's injured.

I have to agree - Robbo gives Dalglish stiff competition. It's a hard one, that.

Belated congrats to RC for the Wimbledon result, which cheered me too.

The U.S. boss seems to insist on that Italian big-little forward combination

Not so! Only with Brian McBride. What was it, Donovan and Moore against Jamaica, neither of whom are target players. Arena does expect a lot more running out of his forwards than Kirovski seems willing to give, though, and excepting Reyna and Mathis, no US midfielders seem to have any idea where the hell Kirovski goes during a game.

I chalk it up to international play being more frenzied and balls-out than the first division. If Palace were to drop down (unlikely now, yeah), then Kirovski would look even better. Hell, playing in div 2 is making John freeking Thorrington look like Figo.

Benjamin, you're right about Arena and the workrate of the U.S. strikers, but until that most recent game -- I believe -- that either McBride, Razov (who may have started against Jamaica were he not injured in training), or Kirovski had started every WCQ match up front. But yes, part of the reason for that was with so many of the team's more skillful players often injured (reyna, o'brien, mathis, wolff), Arena never had the confidence to play w/o a targetman and run out an XI that could play more of a possession game. Ideally with the return to health of the above and increased confidence in Donovan, that will change!

Pam & I heard the roar that greeted Morrison's opener last night while we were outside trying to figure out why our water had gone off. These Saharan winds - they carry more than just sand, y'know.

2nd with a game in hand and Wolves to come at the weekend. Incredible. Charlton went up while we were living in Greenwich. Any Brentford fans want to chip in to help us get a second home in TW8?

Blimey, I never thought I'd learn to love Steve Bruce.

Brentford are on the on the move after this season - either to Feltham (worst place on earth) or Woking.

As well as the Young Offenders Institution, Feltham seems to have lots of people who keep old military vehicles in their front gardens. Are these things connected?

I'd be more worried if they were new military vehicles.

Did you mean that you had a soft spot for Palace or that you have that 80s-hangover dislike for Wimbledon, Reynard?

Heady days indeed in South Norwood.

My fatalistic side does make me fear a repeat of Millwall's 1995-96 season, though.

Brentford is my local team. Feltham is truly a terrible place...it does have a super-big cinema though. That is all it has.

Fuck *you*, Anthony.

Say! We! Are! Top! Of! The! League! etc etc ...

Indeed, a glorious two or three days lies ahead. It won't last, mind, but the skies were lovely over deepest South London tonight.

Robin C's last contribution = major Classic.

Robin: it's the 80s anti-Womble hangover (my life is an 80s hangover, as you'll have noticed) - the day that Bradford beat Liverpool and sent Wimbledon tumbling out of the top flight was one of the best I can remember in football.

*But* I have a slight soft spot for the Palace too. I remember Brian Moore doing Sunday morning (?!) highlights from there in the first half of 1988 (!). - Oh, my goodness, there's a dog on the pitch!...

You recall accurately, Reynard. Everyone in the 80s hated Wimbledon, apart from those who liked ugly functional boring football. I'm glad I wasn't alone in joining the kneejerk "aren't all giant-killers wonderful?" reaction to their fluked Cup Final victory over Liverpool. Other professional giant-killers I grew to dislike: Oldham Athletic, Tranmere Rovers.

I don't remember those Sunday morning highlights programmes but they definitely went out in 1988, though I can't help thinking it was a London-only thing. At least, I remember TVS showing children's programmes while football was on LWT.

I appear to contradict myself there. I meant that I don't remember actually *watching* the Sunday morning programmes.

Yes - of course, that's right: it was specifically LWT, wasn't it? But it was always Palace. In fact it was THE BIG MATCH - a late fluury before the arrival of THE MATCH that autumn.

I agree, Giant Killers != universally wonderful, as this case proves. Other group who liked the result of the 1988 final: Everton fans. (School of Science? Pah.)

I hate over-complicated footballing flummery in much the same way as I dislike over complex musicianship, or art which foregrounds technique. Managers going on about "sticking to their beliefs" in terms of football style are making excuses for the football they play being ineffective. What's more, I think the moral tone adopted by such managers and their symapthisers is offensive. Added to which, I didn't find watching Wimbledon boring, I found it rather exciting.

I do recall the chorus of voices in the press going on and on about how, if Wimbledon won that final, it would be a terrible day for football in general. Didn't someone in the Guardian (Lacey?) say it would kill English football? I laughed at them then and I laugh at them now.

As for the accursed Crystal Palace, bring back Mark Goldberg.

The bad quality of English football in the late 80s and early nineties (Italia90 excluded) was largely the fault of Charles Hughes wasn't it? With his statistical proof that the quickest way to score a goal was to by-pass the midfield and bomb it up to the forwards. Of course this method was utilised by the Dons but I have to agree with Hopkins, when they arrived in the first division it was exciting, skillful no, but yep, exciting. Real knockabout stuff, remeniscent of Millwall's brief venture into the top flight in the mid 80s too. I remember watching a match from the Den in the mid 80's that was great fun, but not full of skill. Obviously I'd rather watch Liverpool demolishing title challengers forest 5-0 but those "lesser-quality" teams didn't mean lesser entertainment.

I'm feeling a little rambly I hope I got my point across.

Tim: were Wimbledon punk? Or were they Oi? Or the Mary Chain smashing, grabbing and rioting? How about yr beloved Leeds? Magazine?

I have no response to this that isn't inevitably tainted by my own loyalties; when the Dons knocked EFC out of the Cup in Feb '87 (first time we hadn't reached Wembley since '83), they were a grotesque bunch of thugs, debasing the beautiful game. When they beat the Filth in the '88 final, they were a lovable bunch of rogues, their direct approach refreshing and dynamic.

I think it's possible (as in tennis) to have a sneaking admiration for direct unfinessed play and the results such an approach can yield, while secretly hoping that something a bit more guileful, smart and sharp-witted will ultimately expose it as a lumbering mess. Yes, I'm drawing over-simple analogies with Boris Bloody Becker again.

Tim H says

>>> What's more, I think the moral tone adopted by such managers and their symapthisers is offensive

in which case I will allow myself to say that, as such a Sympathizer, I find his tone, moral or otherwise, offensive; so perhaps we're quits.

>>> I do recall the chorus of voices in the press going on and on about how, if Wimbledon won that final, it would be a terrible day for football in general. Didn't someone in the Guardian (Lacey?) say it would kill English football? I laughed at them then and I laugh at them now.

No, it wasn't Lacey - he's never said anything like that. I think that whoever it was was right and you're wrong. Laugh away.

Sorry if you found me offensive, PF, I didn't mean to be.

Do you really think Wimbledon winning the cup killed English football? How so?