Hypocrisy

However, beer kills brain cells, and I can't remember a more articulate description than that, sorry.

Clearly hypocrisy occurs everywhere, but is it a cardinal sin everywhere? I don't know, and given my personal tendencies to limit sweeping statements to things I have had experiences with, you get my question as stated.

Fuck it, screw my question, let's argue about the semantics of how I stated it because that's MUCH MORE INTERESTING.

I think a certain amount of hypocrisy is human nature. I think the reason why it is so focused upon in America is because "we" have a tendency to turn self-hatred outwards onto others. I do not know if this is an American trait come to think of it.

More later.

If you say something and then don't do it, or do something else, it's tantamount to flat-out lying over here, and it's flaky and lame and you lose massive points with everyone.

That's the American culture at work. Hypocrisy goes against the frankness and macho honesty values we hold up so high, and that's why it's seen as such a low thing to do.

I commit hypocrisy all the time but usally only w/r/t statements like "I won't get too drunk tonight" or "I'm going to quit smoking."

i mean, if i say X is bad, and then do X, i doubt anyone would call me a hypocrite unless i was really self-righteous about my not doing X.

i think hypocrisy is obnoxious to people because it seems to deny that being alive and doing the right thing all the time isn't always really easy.

This is, of course, hypocritical which is the problem with any discussion of this subject.

This is a silly line of questioning because everyone in the world is really clouded in terms of visualising themselves.

maybe this seems ridiculous, but people have a really strong capacity for lying to themselves.

I seem to remember writing something here about my mate J****, and self-image/hypocrisy/denial/etcetera.

I think lying is a lot worse than hypocrisy. Lying is not committed out of ignorance, it's done with intent to deceive, and it's low.

This is basically exactly the point I was attempting to make but put so, so much better.

This is to my mind a v English form of hypocrisy, the sort you get in Dickens novels -- hypocrisy as 'the tribute that vice pays to virtue,' ie self-conscious hypocrisy, which is probably more catholic (ie based on notion of original sin) than protestant. (Semi-)Conscious hypocrisy I'd identify as very English, I dunno why.

I think still don't get what's so bad about hypocrisy. If someone says that y is bad, but then does y, does that cast doubt on y's being bad? For instance, if your dad smokes two packs a day, and says "don't smoke, it's bad for you", does the fact that that hypocrite smokes two packs a day cast doubt on the fact that smoking is bad for you? It doesn't seem that way to me.

In fact, doesn't a hypocrite carry some extra moral authority because they have experience of what they're recommending you not do? E.g. the smoker who says "don't smoke, it's bad for you," well, they know better than a non-smoker the ways in which it's bad for you.

In fact, doesn't a hypocrite carry some extra moral authority because they have experience of what they're recommending you not do?

Good luck making the world believe that, though.

Yeah, I know. I'm not sure if I believe any of this, but I was thinking through it this morning, and wanted to try talking it through a little more.

"do as I say not as I do" isn't really hypocrisy. hypocrisy is "don't do that, it's bad, I don't do it, either (except cough cough i do!)"

better definitions of hypocrisy needed tho imo....?

def more than do as I say not etc.... but can't put finger on why thats not enough either

I think its my most hated trait but idk why. theres an extra element of awareness in the sin that grates more perhaps

anyway, hypocrisy. is that even how the real world spells it?

People are remarkably able to compartmentalize conflicting ideas and whenever they rise to a point where the conflict cannot be ignored to rationalize them away. This means that almost everyone is a hypocrite in some area of their life, but seldom deliberately. Where hypocrisy starts to stand up on its hind legs and become a more noteworthy sin is when hypocrisy is aware of itself and is used consciously for personal profit. That's pure fraudulence and very anti-social.

not sure anything useful is gained as an outside agent in determining which is compartmentalisation and which is..... sociopathic? is that too strong a word?

I'm increasingly more certain tbh that trying to draw this type of distinction btwn a persons behaviour and anything else about them is bunkum. no doubt someone will tell me my spirit guide philosopher based on this, I may even read any nomination

I suppose the reason "do as I say not as I do" isn't enough is because it's compatible with self-scrutiny. The father who tells you not to smoke while smoking two packs a day is implicitly casting judgment on his own behaviour, admitting that he shouldn't be doing it. So although there's a mismatch between what he says and what he does, it's not because of pretense or knowingly creating false expectations. Maybe in order to be a hypocrite, your stated convictions have to have been announced in such a way that your listener would expect your actions to match them. There has to be some sort of pretense involved.

My favorite comment about hypocrisy was on in the comments to a Corner post at NRO: "What's so terrible about hypocrisy? Hypocrisy is the handmaiden of civilization. If we lowered our aspirations to the level of our failings... well, we'd be liberals."

I feel like anyone who thinks they aren't hypocritical in some way is probably kidding themselves. I get this kind of stuff from conservative friends on facebook:

So Di Caprio finally won. And he used in his speech as a platform to champion his favorite cause, global warming. In other news he announced he would no longer fly on conventional private jets or limousines. He then expanded on the the invention of Hybrid Private Jets, and limousines, which he would now used exclusively. Oh wait, that second part didn't happen. ‪#‎hollywoodhypocrite‬. ‪#‎doasisaynotasido‬

Or "you don't like banks; why do you have a 401K then?"

I guess I'm feeling like "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

Or maybe that our hypocrisies are what make us interesting?

Glad that Dan started this thread...

Maybe it's that when people have such different moral structures, the one thing they (think they) can beat each other over the head with is hypocrisy. But of course it doesn't actually work that way.

Really good episode of CitationsNeeded here about the lack of utility of claims of hypocrisy and wondering who exactly the callouts for hypocrisy are for

http://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-53-the-increasingly-dull-edge-of-hypocrisy-takedowns