Bush to world: "Ignore all that Iraq stuff, we're off to Mars!"

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It's an election ploy that I actually support, god help me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 January 2004 05:41 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, the ways that China can affect national policy...

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Friday, 9 January 2004 05:53 (twenty-two years ago)

But considering the Bush Administration fiscal policies, isn't this clearly impossible to fund? The idea seems so utterly bizzare. It's as though he wants people to think he can make money appear by magic, even though there isn't anywhere near enough money to sustain current spending levels.

I feel like Bush has turned into some kind of frightening carnival sideshow barker.

― webcrack (music=crack), Friday, 9 January 2004 05:55 (twenty-two years ago)

someone floated a loose theory that certain Admin folks have been making efforts to deliberately act in ways that make the populace have less faith in elected government and public officials, and begin to place more & more faith onto the private sector taking over more things...

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I miss the Disneyland "ride".

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The sun never sets...

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Is this an actual quote? I sort of hope so.

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:14 (twenty-two years ago)

suffice it to say, i hope we go to mars at some hopefully-soon financially-stable point in the future. besides the technology spin-offs that can be developed, having more than one planet to survive on might be a good idea.

also, we can declare Martian Law.

the fun thing? We have the technology to go to mars RIGHT NOW. it's the cost, and the fact that we have to way to prevent people from going crazy on the way there & back that's the problem. There was a Discover cover story on this about 2-3 years ago.

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The feasibility of such a long mission is contingent creating artificial gravity, and seeing as how to my limited knowledge we're nowhere near that, yet another example of sleight of hand. Shame on you Mr. Bush!

― Leee Majoraccoca (Leee), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Can't they just send monkeys up there like they used to do in the 60s?

― may pang (maypang), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Not that it would make for a successful mission, but godamn, monkeys dressed up like astronauts never fail to bring a nation together during bad times.

― may pang (maypang), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm highly skeptical about any of this until I see the actual cash in NASA bank accounts.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:24 (twenty-two years ago)

More details here

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Bush has actually been the one to put money back into NASA after Clinton made a bunch of cuts. It'll be interesting to see how much more goes in. I guess.

― may pang (maypang), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:26 (twenty-two years ago)

the weird thing is that we _can_ do artificial gravity, in a couple of ways. either bby thrusting/decelerating, or the rotating-ring method.

one of the guys from Johnson Space Center came to do a little presentation after class about 4 years ago. He mentioned about how they'd worked out most of the math, but the human element is the tricky bit, in terms of how to prevent the deterioation of skeletal & muscle tissue.

also, that they got bored one day and studied scenes from _2001_. Kubrick was theoretically correct, but was off by a factor of 3, either in the speed of rotation of the ship ring, or the width of it. As it is, the thing doesn't rotate fast enough at its apparent width to provide the gravity shown.

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:28 (twenty-two years ago)

heh. Has anybody ever heard the line about how the space program was Johnson's Marshall Plan to rebuild the South?

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, for continuing coverage add http://NASA Watch to your daily read list.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:32 (twenty-two years ago)

"Officials were unwilling to provide costs or details and would say only that Bush will direct the government to immediately begin research and development to establish a human colony or space station on the moon, with the goal of having that lead to a manned mission to Mars. That endeavor could be a decade or more away, the officials said.

Even advocates within the administration said the project is sure to be a difficult sell on Capitol Hill because of the huge costs at a time when the administration is projecting mammoth deficits for years to come, and had promised to cut the shortfall in half over the next five years."

From the Washington Post. We'll see how much the 'mission to mars' gets discussed post November.

― webcrack (music=crack), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:35 (twenty-two years ago)

From Chris's first link:

Sources said Bush will direct NASA to scale back or scrap all existing programs that do not support the new effort.

Surely this doesn't mean cutting back unmanned research elsewhere in the solar system, though?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Bush has actually been the one to put money back into NASA after Clinton made a bunch of cuts. It'll be interesting to see how much more goes in. I guess.

Bush II has been generally positive about putting money into NASA but a lot of ground has been lost in congressional budget fighting and the ever-present trade off between funding ISS and money for basically everything else.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:42 (twenty-two years ago)

the human element is the tricky bit, in terms of how to prevent the deterioation of skeletal & muscle tissue.

The answer is clear. Send the Daft Punk robots!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Surely this doesn't mean cutting back unmanned research elsewhere in the solar system, though?

That wording is kinda foggy... My worry is that most/all of the earth science programs are going to get terminated.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't suppose any of this has to do with Bush's "Star Wars II" ideas, does it?

― may pang (maypang), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Obviously they don't have the PR level of moon bases, but there's a lot of good atmospheric and climatology data that comes out of these programs. And put together they're still cheaper than one shuttle launch

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I much prefer a mission to Mars instead of, oh, working toward universal healthcare, or fixing schools, or anything that's even remotely useful. I'd even settle for a little more funding for the arts.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 9 January 2004 06:50 (twenty-two years ago)

hippie¡

― dyson (dyson), Friday, 9 January 2004 07:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah fuck America we can put some schools n' shit on Mars!!!!

― dean gulberry (deangulberry), Friday, 9 January 2004 07:42 (twenty-two years ago)

schools¿ hell no¡ mars is for missile silos only.

― dyson (dyson), Friday, 9 January 2004 07:49 (twenty-two years ago)

>>I feel like Bush has turned into some kind of frightening carnival sideshow barker.<<

I felt the same way, man. Airplanes get hit with air to ground missles in Iraq...so we start planning to do interplanetary missions? After cutting taxes? The hell?

I'm also now taking bets on how long it takes for the Daily Show or Onion do stories on "Bush; "Mars is linked with Al Qaeda/has WMD'"

-
Alan

― Alan Conceicao, Friday, 9 January 2004 08:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Bush Snr to Bush Jnr "Tell them you'll send people to Mars.. It worked for me!"

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 9 January 2004 09:19 (twenty-two years ago)

When I read of Bush & Rove floating this potential project in the WashPost a few weeks back, I thought, I hope he does it. That is the looniest thing I've ever heard, given the fact that.. oh.. we don't have any money and the IMF just released a report saying current budget deficits are threatening the global economy..

But f*%k that, let's go to Mars!
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/shows/images/2000-2001_chuck_photo1.jpg

Is this because nobody was happy with the immigration reform thing he just announced?

― daria g (daria g), Friday, 9 January 2004 09:28 (twenty-two years ago)

"It's going back to being a uniter, not a divider," a presidential adviser said, echoing language from Bush's previous campaign, "and trying to rally people emotionally around a great national purpose."

Look out everyone, we're back to Bizarro-world!

― daria g (daria g), Friday, 9 January 2004 09:30 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, OK, I suppose there could be a good reason. The weapons of mass destruction might be on Mars.

― daria g (daria g), Friday, 9 January 2004 11:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I honestly sincerely prefer a mission to Mars that we as a nation can't afford than another MILITARY INVASION inflicting MAJOR CIVILIAN CASUALTIES that we can't afford.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

THE ILUDIUM Q6 EXPLOSIVE SPACE MODULATORRRRR!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I think he'll get to this right after the hydrogen cars he talked about in his past state of the union address.

― Dale the Titled (cprek), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Which reminds me: January 20th, State of the Union Address Drinking Game!!!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I truly hope they decide to send Bush to Mars. Without a spacesuit.

― Chris V (Chris V), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I had a dream last week that Mars was the place where all the criminals were sent. They turned it into an entertainment capital like Las Vegas or Branson. The only problem was you couldn't go outside - the entire colony was indoors. I went there because I had a singing gig at one of the hotels. Once I got there, I found that I was a prisoner and couldn't escape and go back to earth. My room was freezing because cold air was leaking in. Then someone showed me a secret tunnel to an underground city where the native Martians and other escapees were living.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

$1 Trillion.

This is a number I don't believe I've ever heard a politician use EVER!

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, maybe I overreact. I guess I have heard the number used... to describe the interest on the national debt.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

... annually...

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

"evidence of life on mars found by spirit probe: it's oil, says team"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Are there any bold initiatives Bush has declared that actually take place DURING his presidency??

1) "democratizing" the MIddle East
2) HYDROGEN CARS
3) moon and mars missions
4) new AIDS spending for Africa

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Osama who?

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 9 January 2004 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.bushorchimp.com/images/pic70.jpg

http://kathleensbearsnthings.safeshopper.com/images/bj1a83b7.jpg http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/01/bush.carrier.landing/story.bush.main.wave.jpg

― BrianB (BrianB), Friday, 9 January 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

If the economy takes a turn for the worse over the next 10 months this is going to be a really fat target for the Democratic nominee.

Regardless of that, though, what about spending Science Money on combatting global warming? We need "more research" before we commit to a plan comes the refrain. But sending people on a trillion dollar SYMBOLIC MISSION TO MARS? "bring it on!!"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 9 January 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

It's a bit ill-thought out though - I mean, in ten years or whenever they get a man on Mars Bush will be long gone and there could well be a Democrat in the office to soak up all the glory.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 9 January 2004 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Congressional Republicans will never let us forget who instigated it though. The landing pod will probably be called "Bush Pod Alpha" or something.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 9 January 2004 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

ass pod.

― Chris V (Chris V), Friday, 9 January 2004 16:32 (twenty-two years ago)

This is a beautiful, beautiful thing. Tell me how Bush comes out of this not looking like an utter fool? Remember how stupid R34gan looked after Star Wars, a project which as a matter of physics is impossible as "developed"? Everyone realized what a maroon he was, and now nobody but nobody takes his legacy seriously! DO YOU SEE?

I imagine Bush watching the Ali G./Buzz Aldrin interview and not getting the joke about "So what was it like to walk on the sun"?

― Hunter (Hunter), Saturday, 10 January 2004 05:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Whether or not it's a good idea, proposing this NOW of all times is foolish, and frankly, insulting to the American people. We have no money for education, health care, social services or anything, an enormous debt, the rediculous war and rebuilding of Iraq... NOW is the time for this crap???

― Sean (Sean), Saturday, 10 January 2004 06:30 (twenty-two years ago)

If OJ Simpson is one of the astronauts, I'm going to get very suspicious

― caitlin (caitlin), Saturday, 10 January 2004 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

http://adorocinema.cidadeinternet.com.br/personalidades/atores/michael-j-fox/michael-j-fox01.jpg

Oooh! Let's try putting a teacher in space again too! Using the space race to distract from issues at home...when have I seen this before?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 10 January 2004 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I feel like Bush has turned into some kind of frightening carnival sideshow barker.

"turned into"?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 January 2004 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

This is the dumbest fucking policy ploy that I've ever heard of.

Even worse than Midnight Basketball.

― don weiner, Saturday, 10 January 2004 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Bush read Madonna's endorsement of Clark:

Our greatest risk is not terrorism and it's not Iraq or the "Axis of Evil." Our greatest risk is a lack of leadership, a lack of honesty and a complete lack of consciousness. Unfortunately our current government cannot see the big picture. They think too small. They suffer from the "what's in it for me?" syndrome.

They decided they needed to 'think big' and do something that had nothing in it for them... or in fact anyone. Something that looked big, gave them another excuse to award big contracts to their friends in high tech weapons systems companies, then cancel sometime after the election.

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 10 January 2004 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

F'ing right!

http://www.tracymorgan.net/imgs/astronaut_jones-main.jpg

― may pang (maypang), Saturday, 10 January 2004 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

bush to congress: "i will send the first hipster to the moon"

― amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 10 January 2004 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

"...and not return him safely to the earth."

*wild applause, entire GNP voted over to this measure."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 10 January 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is Tracy Morgan on an Esquivel cover?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 10 January 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

The Next Battlefield May Be In Outer Space

...hmmm.

and hmmmm

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Saturday, 10 January 2004 23:45 (twenty-two years ago)

also, a fairly in-depth examination of the proposal and why it will most likely fail in its current state.

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Saturday, 10 January 2004 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The real point of this program is that Bush knows the earth will be completely unlivable after he's done with it. He's planning ahead. You're all just too shortsighted to see that.

― sym (shmuel), Sunday, 11 January 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Washington Post editorial board lays the smack down:

A human settlement on the moon? A manned flight to Mars? If Mr. Bush really does embrace those objectives next Wednesday, as his staff suggests he will, it will be fair to ask: Does he not believe that life's normal constraints and rules apply to him? Does he lack the seriousness to decide priorities?

In related news, apparently last year's budget had a passage in the NASA section titled Where Are the Real Space Aliens?

― daria g (daria g), Sunday, 11 January 2004 03:58 (twenty-two years ago)

heh.

On Dec. 24, the White House issued a September determination by Mr. Bush in which he followed his predecessors' lead by issuing a determination exempting the Air Force facility near Groom Lake, Nevada, from environmental laws allowing the release of classified information about the area.

Groom Lake is the place that UFO buffs call Area 51.

"I find that it is in the paramount interest of the United States to exempt the United States Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake … from any applicable requirement for the disclosure to unauthorized persons of classified information concerning that operating location," the president wrote.

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Sunday, 11 January 2004 04:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Our Prez is currently speaking from NASA HQ.

he has already used the term "spatial entrepeneur"

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

We should just use these trips to the moon to dump all of our illiterate children there since we will have no money to teach them how to read.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

That costs too much money.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Not if we grind them up first.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

can't find a transcript yet, but here's CNN's bit on it

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 22:25 (twenty-two years ago)

"Mankind is drawn to the heavens for the same reason we were once drawn to unknown lands and across the open sea," Bush said "We choose to explore space because doing so improves our lives and lifts our national spirit. So let us continue the journey."

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I think he stole that from Rob Lowe on the West Wing.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

of course i agree with Our Prez on that.

the man just needs a better sense of timing and immediate budgetary priorities.

― Kingfishee (Kingfish), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

He had a much more eloquent answer than I had; I would've said "easily exploitable resources" but you know .. I'm no President ...

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Round up the usual suspects

As an example of private industry's hunger for a Mars mission, Steve Streich, a veteran Halliburton scientific adviser, was among the authors of an article in Oil & Gas Journal in 2000 titled "Drilling Technology for Mars Research Useful for Oil, Gas Industries." The article called a Mars exploration program "an unprecedented opportunity for both investigating the possibility of life on Mars and for improving our abilities to support oil and gas demands on Earth," because technology developed for the mission could be used on this planet.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

For a second I thought it meant they were interested in getting oil from Mars back to Earth and my brain hurt.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I heard some "former Greenpeace" now space scientist opine on the radio that the moon and Mars and space in general are worth because they can find/harness energy sources there and "beam them back to Earth." I am too lazy to look up how you would "beam" gigawatts of energy or whatever back to Earth, but it sounded very sci-fi fantasy convention in its delivery.

― Hunter (Hunter), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Isn't he basically cutting the funding of the entire space shuttle programme to do this? Good idea! Cut the funding on something which IS useful to people on earth (because, you know, it needs repairs badly and accidents and repairs are bad for PR) and spend it on something utterly ridiculous with *no* benefit to people on earth. Or what, is he going to rehouse the homeless on Mars?

― the river fleet, Tuesday, 20 January 2004 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Plus, I know that Rover got in a dogfight with Beagle and probably ate it, just to stop the British from getting to the oil first. ;-)

― the river fleet, Tuesday, 20 January 2004 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.210.gif

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 11:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Isn't he basically cutting the funding of the entire space shuttle programme to do this? Good idea! Cut the funding on something which IS useful to people on earth

While this change is extremely abrupt, the space shuttle has long been mooted for phasing out anyway for replacement with a newer generation fleet. This is actually quite a good idea, but the haste in which the decision has been made reminds me of my work situation where good ideas were handled a touch too quickly, I think.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

They lost spirit, ran off with Beagle two i presume, bewitched by a cheap british hussy.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

There was another thread on this... aw, I like the idea that they ran off together a lot more. Bitches in heat, etc.

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

seven months pass...

Bush vs Kerry on science:

" In the build-up to the US presidential election, science is making a sizeable impact on the political agenda. But what will another four years of George W. Bush mean for science, compared with a term under Democratic challenger John Kerry?

To find out, Nature has asked the two candidates 15 questions about their science policies."

http://www.nature.com/news/specials/uselection/index.html

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.scientistsandengineersforchange.org/health.php

Apparently there are scientists and engineers against Bush and for Kerry.

ten months pass...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/08/02/science/02shutt.2a.650.jpg

The president finished by saying "Thanks for taking my phone call - now get back to work."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/02/science/space/02cnd-shuttle.html?hp&ex=1123041600&en=96c0f0735d36c684&ei=5094&partner=homepage

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 17:49 (twenty years ago)

Star Wars missile defense testing to restart today, in other news.

― kingfish (Kingfish), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 18:09 (twenty years ago)

Well now that Bush and Blair have ripped up the nonproliferation treaty in both spirit and letter over the last few months -- as expertly limned by George Monbiot in today's Guardian -- I suppose the thinking is that America will fucking need it. Too bad it doesn't work! (Muntz laugh)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

Star wars reminds me of Evel Knievel's plan to jump over the Snake River Canyon in his "skycycle." He tried two unmanned test runs, both of which crashed into the canyon, and was like "no more test runs, I'm gonna go for it."

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

ha... ha :(

― youn, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

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