Are all Guardian Readers Tofu-eating Cockheads?

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Travel Query
I want to go on a cruise, but don't like the environmental pollution caused by cruise ships. Are there any limited-impact cruises?

Notes & Queries
The recycling centre is eight miles from my house. I drive a car with a 1600 c.c. engine, which runs on unleaded petrol. Does the round trip of 16 miles cancel the ''green'' benefits of recycling, say, four bags of refuse?

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

How's DJ Sven doing?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

oh dear, you don't want to live very long do you Dom?

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

the answer is no, not all of them

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I find the constant articles about kids or "what the kids think", and they all have names like "Rosemary-Ann" or "Europeanunion".

I've nothing against kids but they really overdo it, ok you care about what kids think on things, that's great.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I find them annoying, I meant.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

1) yes there are impact limited cruises, try smaller organisations, whale watching etc.

2) depends what yourecycle. Aluminium, well worth it, glass, pretty good, plastic worth it, paper, not worth it even if you lived next door to the recycling centre and you walked.

I'm not a cockhead but I do like tofu.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Callers to a BBC Radio 5 Live discussion about bad language sympathised with ITV. One woman said: "My nine-year-old daughter begged me to stay up and watch it, but I didn't let her because I expected bad language. I mean for goodness sake, why else have they got Johnny Rotten on?"

― The Guardian (Enrique), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Answer to Second Query:

Whatever harm your unleaded car is doing to the environment during trips to the recycling center is surely compounded by tossing refuse into recycling bins!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed,

Oxford English Dictionary Definition:

Tofu: Food for cockheads

Sorry mate.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

There was a lovely looking ecotourism cruise on a BBC holiday programme a couple of weeks back, and then they told you it cost £15000 or something, which made me wonder whether the ecological impact of earning that £15000 cancelled out the good work done on the holiday.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

can I repeat, making paper in to new paper does not save anything, not energy, not trees, not global warming, nothing.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I've always wondered about the point of recycling paper. I think in the 80s people though it saved rainforests or something. I demand ebony paper!

I guess I vaguely assumed it must take less energy to make recycled paper than virgin stuff. Not even that then?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Does the round trip of 16 miles cancel the ''green'' benefits of recycling, say, four bags of refuse?

Using a gallon of gas puts something like 35lbs of CO2 into the atmosphere, including production and transportation in addition to actually burning it.

Recycling plastic puts as much CO2 into the air as burning it for fuel.

Ed says recycling paper is a waste of time. Tear it up and insulate something with it instead.

You're better off turning your thermostat down, and only recycling if you're headed in that direction anyway.

― Stuart (Stuart), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

what about if you recycled your own paper? never bought any new envelopes, simply crossed out the addresses of the ones you received and reused them? and if you used some sort of bleaching agent on all the printed paper you received and used it for writing paper etc? does that save energy, trees, and global warming, or nothing?

― MarkH (MarkH), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Well obv. that would.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

(oh - didn't see the bit about the bleaching agent. dunno)

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

if you bleached your paper in the comfort of yr own home?

― MarkH (MarkH), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Reusing envelopes is nice and all, but how many envelopes can one person possibly use?

You're still way ahead by turning down the heat and plugging drafts.

― Stuart (Stuart), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

At work they constantly tell us to reuse skanky old files instead of ordering boxes of shiny new ones. You don't want your filing cabinets to look skanky, do you?

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Reusing envelopes is nice and all, but how many envelopes can one person possibly use?

Depends on their job innit.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread is a bit Darren Tackle, isn't it?

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Using a gallon of gas puts something like 35lbs of CO2 into the atmosphere

I don't understand Imperial units, but that cannot be right.

― Sam (chirombo), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

c8h18 molecular weight 114

1kg of petrol 8.47moles of octane

67.8 moles carbon

co2 molecular weight 48

therefore 3.254 kg of co2 per kg of octane (if petrol were pure octane)

someone find me a density of octane and they can have that in gallons and pounds.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Over here in sunny Ireland, it's not so much that they're trying to save energy, it's that we're running out of space for landfill, so we have to recylce or we're going to end up with big stinky piles of crap everywhere. Of course it's always amusing to be told to recycle when household waste only accounts for a tiny percentage of the national total.

I used to read the Guardian all the time, but I've gone off it lately too, as it has all got a bit 'why aren't you breeding? It's fabulous!'

― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

does recycling paper really not save trees?

tofu is great when it's served the right way - i.e. WITH MEAT yum yum it's the proper way of doing it before damn vegans hi-jacked it into some weird health food.

i like breeding too.

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed I stand corrected. I have forgotten all my chemistry.

― Sam (chirombo), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

(Although I think the weight of CO2 is 44.)

― Sam (chirombo), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Blimey, this thread's got boring.

Real Madrid vs Sevilla tonight. Live on Sky. Get in!

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

yay. snooker masters championship coverage on BBC2.

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

No it's been cancelled Mikey, sorry!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

What, the match itself, or has Sky's coverage been sidelined in favour of that mighty clash of the titans, Tottenham vs Man City?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Nope, sadly all footie has been cancelled tonite, to be replaced with 'Simpsons' repeats. Sorry guys!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i hope it's the one where Bart is at soccer practice then

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, you teasing Pinkpanther person, don't scare me like that.

The Spanish game follows the North London scum.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

*bows*

― Pinklady (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

That 35lbs came from the EPA's estimate that a car that gets 22mpg and is driven 200 miles per week puts 17,000lbs of CO2 into the atmosphere per year, including the emissions produced by extracting, refining, and transporting the actual gasoline the car burns. It's not just a X gasoline + O2 = Y CO2 equation. It might factor in other stuff like motor oil and new tires though, which I didn't consider.

― Stuart (Stuart), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but do you think Sevilla can beat Los Galacticos? Surely you have an equation for that?

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, I've got one myself.

Beckham + Figo + Zidane + Roberto Carlos + Ronaldo + Raul minus the spotty Reyes (cracking own goal btw mate) Divided by Low Priority of Spanish Cup (over two legs) = 2-2 Draw.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

sounds about right stuart for the life cycle analysis.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

excuse my ignorance,but why is recycling paper no good?
im not doubting it,just curious about the reasons...
is it that the energy used to recycle paper cancels out any benefits?

― robin (robin), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Surely it means you cut down fewer trees, no?

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm, it finished Real Madrid 2 Sevilla 0. The second half of my equation omitted (Packed Bernabau x Impudence of Zidance - Beckham's Ponytail)

I appologise for this mathafootiball oversight.

I wish everyone would stop talking about recycling. It's so dull

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Thursday, 5 February 2004 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Most paper come from forests that are replanted so it doesn't matter if you're cutting the trees down.

Another thing to bear in mind is that more pollution is caused in the production of most modern cars than is created in their lifetime's usage. Or so I've been told, anyway.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 5 February 2004 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry Mikey. I'd just like to confirm that I often read the Guardian and am a tofu-eating cockhead.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 5 February 2004 12:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I can certainly confirm that all Guardian WRITERS are right-wing fuckwits.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 5 February 2004 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

and the SUn goes round the Earth, not the other way round, fuckos

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 5 February 2004 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Keep the tabloids out of this debate.

I read the Guardian too. That was obvious, guesses I.

― MikeyG (MikeyG), Thursday, 5 February 2004 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

N is correct about most paper coming from sustainable forests. It takes no less enery to make paper from waste paper than it does from wood (very marginally less but it makes no odds really). Much better to absorb some of the carbon dioxide produced in making the paper by growing new trees.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 5 February 2004 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

But but if you make it out of recycled paper you don't have to cut down the trees so they can continue using up CO2.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 5 February 2004 13:33 (twenty-two years ago)

accentmonkey was otm with the landfill issue. We're going to be buried under rubbish in years to come, unless we do something about reducing the amounts we create. There was a fantastic article about it in the observer magazine the other sunday funnily enough.....

I was thinking about getting my own compost heap, but apparently you shouldn't put cooked leftovers on, but there's another system that's better for household waste.

― Vicky (Vicky), Thursday, 5 February 2004 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

But but if you make it out of recycled paper you don't have to cut down the trees so they can continue using up CO2.

Yeah but these trees are from forests that are (re)planted to make money - they wouldn't be there in the first place otherwise.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 5 February 2004 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

guardian-reading, paper-recycling cock-head

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 5 February 2004 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

c8h18 molecular weight 114
1kg of petrol 8.47moles of octane
67.8 moles carbon
co2 molecular weight 48
therefore 3.254 kg of co2 per kg of octane (if petrol were pure octane)

i think the math is a little off, but more seriously
C8H18 + O2 --> CO2 + CO + H20 + CxHx

― marianna, Thursday, 5 February 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never read the Guardian, but you can call me a cockhead all day long if it gets me some deep-fried tofu as served at Thai restaurants. It must be CRISPY, not the kind where the outside is fried but the inside is all squishy.

― Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Thursday, 5 February 2004 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

OK so I was assuming complete combustion of octane not a bad assumption.

2 C8H18 + 34 O2 -> 16CO2 + 18H2O

]
math is approximate but approximately correct.

Young trees absorb more CO2 than older ones. landfill is a valid point but there are plenty of good non landfill uses for paper waste, mulches, filtration, insulation etc. etc.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 5 February 2004 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not so into tofu (the jury is out on cockhead), but I read the Guardian online pretty regularly.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 5 February 2004 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed, we can bond over our disfigured cock-looking heads and form a support group... over a meal consisting of General Tso's seitan with sesame noodles, then tofu cocunut/chocolate pie.

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 5 February 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I once caused a revolt on a private mailing list by openly and harshly ridiculing someone who wanted to lie outside on the grass but wanted to check to make sure that his suntan lotion wouldn't poison the soil before he did it. The resulting furor led to the death of the mailing list. It was simultaneously my proudest and saddest moment.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 5 February 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Hm. Doesn't lying on grass for extended periods of time also compromise the health of the grass?

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 5 February 2004 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

not if it's FEEDING ON YOUR FLESH!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 5 February 2004 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

As a tofu-eating cockhead, I am quite disappointed the Guardian is not available to read where I live. Were it, I would gladly swell the ranks of their tofu-eating, cockheaded readership by a total of one. All we get here is the Oregonian, a newspaper run by mouth-breathing meatheads, cigar-chomping fatheads, and limp-wristed hand-wringers.

― Aimless, Friday, 6 February 2004 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.guardian.co.uk

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 6 February 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan, what the hell mailing list was this?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 February 2004 02:53 (twenty-two years ago)

It was some friends of mine from high school; one of them befriended a whole bunch of irritating wannabe lefties in college and thought that they'd mix well with the acidly-sarcastic personalities she hung out with in high school. OOPS.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 6 February 2004 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Astonishing. Well done and oops at the same time.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 February 2004 03:53 (twenty-two years ago)

The one thing I feel bad about is this guy from Caltech who knew none of us whom she invited on because they'd encountered each other online somewhere. One of my best friends and I decided we were going to tag-team ruthlessly and uncouthly insulting him and mocking his opinions until he cried as a writing exercise. I then went for the full-bore confusion by emailing the kid messages off-list pointing out the logical flaws and grammar mistakes in my flames towards him so that he could more effectively roast me on the list.

I MISS FRESHMAN YEAR.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:02 (twenty-two years ago)

That is what I call a true waste of time -- but done for the highest and most beautiful of purposes.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:08 (twenty-two years ago)

That reminds me of the pet-turtle-and-tortoise mailing list I was on that disintegrated into death threats and late-night whispering phone calls.

― Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:18 (twenty-two years ago)

WOW you win.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:19 (twenty-two years ago)

and some people wonder why Harvard is so hated ...

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Were the calls from the turtles?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, don't forget Carleton and Gustavus Adolphus! I wasn't alone in this.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.newgenevacenter.org/portrait/gus-adolphus.jpg

"Hi, I'm Gustavus Adolphus. I've been ringing you up and whispering death threats to you about your turtle, PIGFUCKER."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:25 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.itis.mn.it/fermitutti/interviste/telefilm/willy/carlton.jpg

"For fuck's sake, get over yourself and go suntan! GAWD."

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I fear this will not yet be the new William Henry Harrison/Ma$e throwdown.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:28 (twenty-two years ago)

The turtles were guiltless. It was those lousy fucking tortoises...

― Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Friday, 6 February 2004 04:28 (twenty-two years ago)

math is approximate but approximately correct
I was just nitpicking ed.
1000/114 = 8.77
CO2 mw = 44
;)

― marianna, Friday, 6 February 2004 10:27 (twenty-two years ago)

not bad condsidering I haven't touched chemistry for 6 years, although I might have avoided some combustion lectures in thermodynamics.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 6 February 2004 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

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