12 Step Programs

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The 12 Step Progam as developed by the founders of AA is a theory and a method - successful for some, a failure for others.

But what about court-ordered 12 Step participation? If these programs are faith-based and employ the notion of a "higher power," is it a violation of church/state separation to compel one to participate, often unwillingly (i.e. in county jails)?

Also - If one is "powerless" - a confession that 12 Step plans dictate - why even bother? Why not just keep partying?

― andy, Thursday, 5 February 2004 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Because some people benefit from being court-ordered to hear stuff they'd otherwise run away from before they'd heard enough of it to get through to them. I'd guess that there are now-happier people who'd tell you they're grateful to the judge for forcing them to stick around long enough to see whether sobriety wasn't for them.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 5 February 2004 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

some people end up with grim results every time they drink or use or whatever, and they're unable to stop on their own power. aa is about helping these people to find a power greater than themselves that will help them live happy lives. it doesn't have to be anything churchy. there are a lot of atheists in aa. don't worry about it.

― dan (dan), Thursday, 5 February 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I confess I don't know that much about it... And no, I don't have to go!

But I used to have a roommate that went for years, many years after he'd quit drinking. It seemed like it was just a social club for him. I guess it worked, he never drank... he mostly smoked crank.

― andy, Thursday, 5 February 2004 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

It does become somewhat of a social club from what I've seen by having very close friends involved in them--but where else can you meet people to hang out with that you know aren't going to want to go to the bar? I think that overall they can be helpful, but the person going has to actually make the effort to take it seriously. When people are forced to go by the court, some just do their time and some get something out of it.

― webcrack (music=crack), Thursday, 5 February 2004 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

many atheist go to AA they use the term Good Orderly Direction in place of god, but you prob wont get much information about it anywhere (or uh maybe the website) because there is an undrstanding to not blab about what you here in the meetings.
On the other hand I hear that people are putting 'completed 12 step program' on their CVs in listing achievemnets. I reckon its beneficial in the community sense , because you help and provide support for other people who are just starting out, that continues your own sobriety apparently.

― anon1, Friday, 6 February 2004 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

12-step programs are generally a disaster, can be psychologically very damaging even if drug/drink intake is reduced or eliminated, and more importantly have such a stranglehold on treatment that reasearch into other, potentially better forms of addiction treatment die of neglect.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I would say that some ppl definitely benefit for being told to do something. It's a direct order which might make them stick to it, rather than relying on theirself to actually do it.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:37 (twenty-two years ago)

they are good for people who can't seem to get a handle on their use thru other means.
it has been the only thing to help some really hc users.

the groups aren't for recreational users, they are for the people who just can't stop, and those people *need* the invasive surveillance, group pressure, and constant support/contact to stay clean. yes 12 step groups are cult-like, but some people need that.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:40 (twenty-two years ago)

"...research...dies..." Carry on.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

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12 Step Programs - C/D?