The Simpsons pretty much represents everything I hate about, well, everything.

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Smug liberal smartassery. Yuck.

― fries with that, Friday, 6 February 2004 07:58 (twenty-two years ago)

grouch

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I know, wonderfully reasoned and thought through. But anyway.

― thread starter, Friday, 6 February 2004 08:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Nah. I consider myself fairly conservative, and with a few exceptions (the character of Cleetus the Slack Jawed Yokel, the NRA episode that may as well have been written by Michale Moore), I'm rarely offended by anything on the show. And even when I am, like, whatever, man, it's just a show - people are too goddam sensitive these days anyway, and as someone who so detests 'liberal smartassery,' surely you agree?

Show is so obviously classic. Lighten up.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Give me Mike J; keep your Matt G.

― me again, Friday, 6 February 2004 08:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i do think i've flipped back to thinking 'life in hell' is the best thing groening's ever done and ever gonna do

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:16 (twenty-two years ago)

ugh, cinniblount. classic contrarian smug nonsense - the equivalent to "that's nothing - you should hear the lathe cut 7"!!!" - those (XXX) is Hell books are OK, but come on.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:26 (twenty-two years ago)

ugh, cinniblount. classic contrarian smug nonsense

priceless.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Give me Mike J; keep your Matt G.

Are you seriously extolling the merits of "Beavis & Butthead" over "the Simpsons"???

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Groening created Futurama, and for that he can be deified as far as I'm concerned.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:29 (twenty-two years ago)

The simpsons are the John Peel of america. whether thats a good thing or not, i dont know

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:33 (twenty-two years ago)

actually i might even have futurama second, even when i see a great simpsons i get nagging detections of 'that tendency's gonna catch up with em'. i still laugh, but the decline period (which still have great stuff) at this point has lasted almost as long as the golden years. if there were 1 awful 'x is hell' book for every 2 great 'x is hell' books maybe i'd thing different, or if i felt nostalgia for the simpsons (instead of just recoiling and going 'i remember these being ALOT better' which is what happens with 90% of the first two - three? - seasons) or if binky (or zoidberg) had linked up with burger king (which is weighing VERY heavily in my equating) i'd think different.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:41 (twenty-two years ago)

for all the accusations of liberalness, they never scourged either Bush as harshly as clinton... anyone remember the episode where clinton was on the make with Marge, saying "you think i'm too good for you, but i'm not... i'll do it with anything, even pigs"

― stevie (stevie), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:51 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, i'm very interested in hearing how, exactly, the simpsons is 'liberal'

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 6 February 2004 08:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Exactly: I don't think it's safely categorizable, since it will take the piss out of all-comers. I'd call it small 'c' conservative perhaps, but that doesn't imply anything specific in the realm of actual politics.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:13 (twenty-two years ago)

How is The Simpsons the John Peel of America? I don't get it.

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:18 (twenty-two years ago)

How are any of you deciding whether the Simpsons is liberal or conservative? Is it the characters or the plotlines or the dialogue or what? Is Dickens conservative because his characters are? Are all sit coms conservative because the characters stay within the given situation? Is a show conservative because it's characters say thing like "Marge, old people don't need companionship, they need to be isolated and studied to see what useful nutrients can be obtained from them..." What is it?

― run it off (run it off), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:25 (twenty-two years ago)

good question.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:27 (twenty-two years ago)

It's difficult to pin down, but you can sorta tell how the creators of a given show load the dice -- who do they make especially ridiculous, in The Simpsons, that sort of thing. What do they parody? Or rather what don't they parody?

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:27 (twenty-two years ago)

So, who gets the worst deal in The Simpsons? Who is *especially* ridiculous? Homer is a jerk with a heart of gold and Mr Burns is a mean Victorian factory owner who just wants to be loved.

― run it off (run it off), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Selma and Patty?

I think we can assume a liberal bias in The Simpsons office, or at the very least a contrarian one.

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Hypocracy in general gets the shit end of the stick. That's why, I'll say again, classic.

Still, Cleetus The Slack Jawed Yokel...ugh I hate that. It seems so irresponsible and even more inconsistent.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:40 (twenty-two years ago)

contrarianism and liberalism are two very decidedly different things

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Apu gets a raw deal -- most English viewers see his character as a throwback to racial stereotyping common on UK TV in the 1970s.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but he also bucks stereotypes in many ways.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:49 (twenty-two years ago)

how so?

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

the dream police live inside of his head for starters

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Used 'contrarian' as a polite term for 'smartarse'.

Apu: so naming him after I think the S. Ray film tells you volumes about where the Simpsons writers are at with him; I think they're great at sending up social stereotypes.

Oddly when I was really little we had a neighbour called Cletus who was...a bit slow.

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, consider the episode where Apu and Manjula entertain Homer and Marge - and he starts playing the record - remember? It's all crazy weird atonal Indian music, and Apu says 'whoops' and changes the speed from 45 to 33 and we find out that its a very Western-sounding ballad. It's a small detail, but it's consistent with the creators' creative 'don't judge a book by its cover' ethos

Which is why, again, Cleetus has gotta go.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"atonal Indian music"

atonal?

WTF are you talking about?

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah the other definition of atonal, ie not western (gad I hate that definition)

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Friday, 6 February 2004 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

well, whatever. you get the point. atonal - as in, not reverential to the Beatles legacy - ok?

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)

George Harrison might have had something to say about that.

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The NRA episode was pretty pro-NRA, i thought.

― sym (shmuel), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

touche suzy - but that was sorta the other way around

sym - how so? as a life member of the nra i thought it painted the organization rather cartoonishly

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:13 (twenty-two years ago)

err, no pun intended

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I was going to say...
But the actual members of the NRA were responsible gun owners. It was only non-member Homer that was (typically) an idiot with his gun.

― sym (shmuel), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, Roger, not everyone thinks that citizens being armed is a grebt idea, and that ep was a lot softer than anything Michael Moore might have done (ie, hey what are you doing, NRA members are responsible people...).

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Apu gets a raw deal -- most English viewers see his character as a throwback to racial stereotyping common on UK TV in the 1970s

This is an outright goddamned lie (no offense).

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

fair enough, enrique - and like i said, i wasn't fuming over it or anything. It was still a pretty great episode.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Andrew -- it's not a 'lie'; in my experience, ppl have a problem with the depiction of Apu. Even if, in your experience, they don't, that doesn't make what I said a 'lie'.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Apu has it easy compared to Cletus

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, that's prolly true, but I spose we're oversensitive here about the depiction of southern Asian characters because it's been a big source of cultural contention since the 60s; whereas the depiction of Americans is less of an urgent issue.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:32 (twenty-two years ago)

the decision to give Apu octuplets was a terrible terrible one imo

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:33 (twenty-two years ago)

The NRA thing - surely the majority of NRA members *are* careful and responsible, but the fact that Homers *do* exist within the organisation is a very explicit criticism of American gun laws (more than the NRA). I thought about this when reading the "which of your schoolfriends died" thread and noting how many gun deaths there were, pretty much all of which were accidental.

(also, the episode showed up the ridiculousness of the concept that guns are fine for owning but never for using - I'd say that's pretty critical of the NRA)

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i've never seen 'The Cartridge Family' i don't think

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Enrique: A good point, if your statement had said "in my experience" instead of talking for 20 million people. Do you have any evidence in the media, for example, that this view is widespread?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:37 (twenty-two years ago)

http://lookinside2-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35lepjcp+lWlaRSAE7PJ2fLIyTteOnNLiuJ55KXXmBGq7/UEolu0z4sdEi

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:37 (twenty-two years ago)

My wds were poorly chosen: 'most English viewers'. I can't back it up, of course. But you know, you have to be intuitive, there won't be any way of proving it; in fact, the idea is a bit of a cliche, so i didn't just pull it out my arse. Ie, publication of a book about anti-redneck hate doesn't prove it existsn either, but it almost certainly does exist -- opinion based on private conversations, not statistical research.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with the poster. God how I hate to laugh.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Friday, 6 February 2004 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 194 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I didn't say offensive, I said "uncomfortable". I think "offensive" comedy is generally far more succesful if the authors themselves are offended or at least interested in exporing an offensive idea as opposed instead of lame "anti-PC" nonsense. Something like Carl Reiner's Where's Poppa is a perfect example of the former.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 12 August 2004 08:29 (twenty-one years ago)

oh okay, woody allen hasn't made me feel uncomfortable.

― ENRG, Thursday, 12 August 2004 08:30 (twenty-one years ago)

My favourite comedians are the ones who wittily self-deprecate...but they're standing up on stage, making people laugh...therefore attaining dignity/commanding respect while at the same time taking the piss out of themselves as much it not more than anyone else - I like that juxtaposition.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 12 August 2004 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

i've never really got into stand-up etc, which is odd since i like a lot of comedians who earn their um 'chops' there before going on to tv/film, eg dylan moran. what i've seen of ricky gervase's stuff i didn't much like. like anything i suppose it's a matter of fashion: for example the 'angus deayton style' of ironical presentation of gameshows has really dated, though once upon a time it was quite good. i think i like less wordy comedy now.

― ENRG, Thursday, 12 August 2004 08:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree there's a sliding scale of how to make people laugh, with this 'going out to offend someone via cheap obvious mockery' being the lowest point. The highest point would be things The Simpsons has explored and demonstrated in the past - see the 'What makes you laugh?' (or was it called 'What do you find funny?') thread for examples imo

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 12 August 2004 08:48 (twenty-one years ago)

thinking about it i can't generalize, i mean it's a bit like asking 'what do you find attractive', cz despite my wordy-comedy-no-likey line i laughed hard at a v involved jk on 'yes minister' the other night which involved puns on john maynard keynes and milton friedman (=milton keynes DYS).

― ENRG, Thursday, 12 August 2004 08:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Railing aginst dumb humor in "The Simpsons" requires a drastic rewrite of the show's history. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THERE and there's always been more of it than superfans are willing to admit (aside from the first season where they were just trotting sitcom trope after sitcom trope to establish the characters).

The show doesn't work when the basic premise isn't funny. Possibly the best episodes I can remember are the one where Homer goes to clown college and the "Cape Fear" parody.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 12 August 2004 11:14 (twenty-one years ago)

As I said, in the past, the writers always seemed to take care to ensure characters like Skinner ultimately came out okay in whatever situation they found themselves in. I liked the fact that he was a ridiculous mummy's boy but still able to command authority from Burns, Fat Tony AND the pupils - only fearing his mother. That's all gone now. I agree about the possible best episodes tho - and the gulf between them and the show today is so apparent to me I get annoyed when others can't see (I understand if they do see and on't care, that is of arguably the sensible approach...).

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 12 August 2004 11:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok he fears Charmers too.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 12 August 2004 11:25 (twenty-one years ago)

The other thing is it used to balance superbly the idea it was about real life and the idea it was pure fantasy. The former seemed to be abandoned around five years ago and now every episode seems to be built around the belief that anything can happen because it's TV, animation and generally trying to deal with it's own success and longlife' i.e. meta overload (I counted around half a dozen references to previous episodes in the aforementioned 'offending' episode including 'Mr Plow' - I don't like the way they seem to rely on this technique for laughs so much now (but then maybe ILX does too ;)

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 12 August 2004 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

The Simpsons used to be about the Simpsons, but now it's just about The Simpsons

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 12 August 2004 11:29 (twenty-one years ago)

stevem's criticisms are totally otm

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

The Simpsons went shit after Maude Flanders died

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:32 (twenty-one years ago)

everyone has their own JTS moment and I think mine remains Frank Grimes

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

The Simpsons used to be about the Simpsons, but now it's just about The Simpsons
-- the neurotic awakening of s (stevem7...), August 12th, 2004.

OTM.

Though it's still kind of amazing that it was great for as long as it was.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Harold Media, have you ever watched The Cosby Show? Bill Cosby's humor is NOT NICE. Most of his jokes are about being pissed off at his kids. There is some vicious shit on there (though of course there's a subtext of love underneath it all that keeps it from being dispicable). Seriously, if any real father said the stuff that Cosby says to his kids in that show, they would grow up emotionally fucked (and this osmosis of sitcom language into the real world is going to result in some serious psychological confusion over the next couple of generations, believe you me).

― na (Nick A.), Thursday, 12 August 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Ugh, this line of thought is dud dud dud and on par with thinking a slanderous piece of writing is automatically worthy becuase it inspires debate.

That's quite a leap.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

OTM

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously, if any real father said the stuff that Cosby says to his kids in that show, they would grow up emotionally fucked

My dad said a lot of that stuf and I... um...

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

The Simpsons serves to a degree as the court jester of our society. A hearty portion of it is social critique. Offending some people comes with that territory.

John Stewart is another court jester. He is an equal-opportunity offender.

There are different types of comedy, obv. I didn't say comedy *has* to be offensive or make you uncomfortable to be funny. Sight gags aren't usually offensive, although a bit of embarrassment (at someone else's expense) is often involved (ha! ha! he fell down!). The self-deprecating humor also has a bit of embarrassment (that person is laughing at themselves, making it alright for the audience to laugh at them, too).

Calling someone's argument "dud dud dud" is dud dud dud.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

problem is 'equal opportunities offender' usually means 'offends blacks, gays, *and* women'.

― ENRG, Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

and black gay women.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean offends right and left.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Growing up emotionally fucked isn't so bad; it's proabbly healthy to visceraly know the world don't love your ass. That said, I can't stand the way the Simpsons talk; it's the way adults talk to babies they don't know.

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

My dad said a lot of that stuf and I... um...

Oh don't worry, the scarring didn't run too deep. BTW, how come it took so long for the asylum to get wired?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Some of my favorite bits of late have been faux interviews on the Daily Show and Ali G where the interviewee is a person who takes themselves waaay too seriously and the interviewer doesn't mind coming off stupid. Here, again, is an element of embarrassment or unease.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)

But then again, Wanda Sikes and Ellen Degeneres don't make me uncomfortable, yet I think they're funny.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Thursday, 12 August 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Railing aginst dumb humor in "The Simpsons" requires a drastic rewrite of the show's history. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THERE and there's always been more of it than superfans are willing to admit.

Sure, yeah, but the other thing that was there was smart humor, and gradually over time the ratio of dumb to smart humor has shifted towards dumb. So you don't have to deny that the show ever contained dumb humor in order to complain about the ever increasing prevalance of it.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 12 August 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

and obv I find some dumb humor funny and some I don't. Lately, the Simpsons dumb humor has fallen into the latter category.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 12 August 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you're skipping over the "there's always been more of it than superfans are willing to admit" part of that quote.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 13 August 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

Today's simpsons had guest stars such as the author of Maus, Alan Moore, Daniel Clowes and a pet shop boys song played halfway through the episode. Even though the end of the episode sucked, the first half was good and seemed to represent many ILXORS interests (graphic novels and pet shop boys). So the ILX simpson hater is a hypocrite! (or something) BE DAMNED!

― CaptainLorax, Monday, 19 November 2007 01:46 (eighteen years ago)

Gil: Funny lines but is also devoid of any dignity or genuine pride ala Skinner now ergo I hate the use of him. Are we supposed to sympathise with him or just point and laugh at the poor guy like everyone else?

Oh, I like Gil because I can relate to him, and because he talks like I imagine Holden Caulfield would (the cadence etc, not the dialogue).

― Abbott, Monday, 19 November 2007 04:18 (eighteen years ago)

I found this:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7039/1195445797058ub7.jpg

― CaptainLorax, Monday, 19 November 2007 04:39 (eighteen years ago)

this season has been really good

― chaki, Monday, 19 November 2007 05:56 (eighteen years ago)

I agree; it has.

― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Monday, 19 November 2007 10:00 (eighteen years ago)

so the Android's Dungeon is shuttered for good?

"My name is Strawberry; my bag is a lunchbox"

― Dr Morbius, Monday, 19 November 2007 14:45 (eighteen years ago)

lol Watchmen Babies

― latebloomer, Monday, 19 November 2007 15:42 (eighteen years ago)

that is some 'all is forgiven' type bizness

― blueski, Monday, 19 November 2007 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

Ray Winstone as muscled Beowulf vs. Jack Black as skinny hipster

― Dr Morbius, Monday, 19 November 2007 16:21 (eighteen years ago)

What the hell is Watchmen Babies.

― burt_stanton, Monday, 19 November 2007 16:23 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.lavieri.it/comics/image%20comics/copertine/Watchmen20AD_giant.jpg

one of the best graphic novels of all time: watchmen. by alan moore. who also did v for vendetta.

http://is2.okcupid.com/users/122/930/12393041114106859523/mt1125928373.jpg

muppet babies. when you take franchises and make them babies.

MIX THEM TOGETHER AND WAT DU U GET

― Will M., Monday, 19 November 2007 16:40 (eighteen years ago)

telekinetic kermit

― DG, Monday, 19 November 2007 16:41 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.sillyape.org/trash/nerds.jpg

― burt_stanton, Monday, 19 November 2007 16:43 (eighteen years ago)

That Lavieri Watchmen cover makes me ill. Is that Alex Ross?

― Rock Hardy, Monday, 19 November 2007 16:45 (eighteen years ago)

Alex Ross does not draw his female characters as pumpkinheads.

I watched about 1/2 of the ep last night, and the "RUPERT MURDOCH's WALL STREET JOURNAL" gag made me laugh for a good while.

― kingfish, Monday, 19 November 2007 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

ten years pass...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j5kwj7/i-watched-the-simpsons-for-the-first-time-ever-and-i-couldnt-stand-it

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 2 July 2018 19:53 (seven years ago)

no thanks

― flamenco blorf (BradNelson), Monday, 2 July 2018 20:01 (seven years ago)

precision engineered troll article

― circa1916, Monday, 2 July 2018 20:05 (seven years ago)

Wow this Vice article is pretty controversial!!!!!! pic.twitter.com/feJzJu1ERC
— popular comedy account “the pixelated boat” (@pixelatedboat) July 2, 2018

― Eliza D., Monday, 2 July 2018 20:06 (seven years ago)

Nothing will ever be as bad as Rory McGrath explaining to Marcus Brigstock why he didn't like Fawlty Towers.

― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 2 July 2018 20:14 (seven years ago)

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