Oh no! Microsoft source code leaked! OH NO!!!

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― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 February 2004 05:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm, I wonder if they'll ever come out & say how the code leaked. My company is rather paranoid about data security, like flat out prohibiting wireless keyboards with developer computers, or 802.N cards in our laptops- I think MS is pretty paranoid too, although it's my understanding that at least part of their campus is wired for 802. Of course, all it really takes is a developer leaving a laptop on a car seat or something- smash window, take laptop, crack encryption on the hard drive at yr leisure, and it's all yours.

― lyra (lyra), Friday, 13 February 2004 05:38 (twenty-two years ago)

(..or a disgruntled ex-employee)

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 13 February 2004 05:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Disgruntled exemployees, though, should have been subject to rules about what docs can be kept where-- if they're only allowed on secured computers, and they have to hand in their laptops when they leave...so they wouldn't have anything hard to leak. I guess if you're disgruntled, you could probably figure out how to ignore that stuff, though.

My dad's company finally got smart about handing out laptops with encryption on them concurrent with instituting a 90 day password change policy... and from what I hear, the tech support is having a ball trying to retrieve documents of people who can't remember their new passwords & can't access their stuff anymore.

― lyra (lyra), Friday, 13 February 2004 05:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, note that the code in question is for Windows 2000 and NT.. hardly the latest and greatest... so this could have all predated the security crackdown.

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 13 February 2004 05:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah. Haha, I have this silly image a geek sitting on this code for years... ;-)

― lyra (lyra), Friday, 13 February 2004 05:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe he was hoping to make this...

http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/MMPH/247818.jpg

but failed, and decided to take out his angst against the source of the stolen code.

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 13 February 2004 05:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh the dream.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 February 2004 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

"So, what would you little maniacs like to do first?"

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 13 February 2004 06:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Now the soundtrack is taking over my skull.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 February 2004 06:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm waiting for the results of a "grep foo *" on the code.

Rumor has it that one on win 95 source yields over 800 or so!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 13 February 2004 06:20 (twenty-two years ago)

A 'grep -r foo * | wc' yeilds 2811 lines!!

― Andrew (enneff), Friday, 13 February 2004 08:42 (twenty-two years ago)

A what??

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 13 February 2004 11:12 (twenty-two years ago)

"search all files for the text 'foo' and print the total number of lines which contain it"

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 13 February 2004 11:17 (twenty-two years ago)

tragically i understood what the grep meant but didn't (and don't) understand why this is interesting/amusing...

― toby (tsg20), Friday, 13 February 2004 11:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Explain me computer talk! I too am intregued by foo.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Friday, 13 February 2004 11:22 (twenty-two years ago)

'foo' is just a word that computer people use when they need a convenient meaningless word. It derives from a 1930s cartoon strip, apparently.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 13 February 2004 11:28 (twenty-two years ago)

It and its twin 'bar' are from FUBAR.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 13 February 2004 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

*Nelson laugh*

― Dale the Titled (cprek), Friday, 13 February 2004 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

What would make a computer person "need" a convenient meaningless word? I'm very intrigued now.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Friday, 13 February 2004 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you not appreciate the joy of unnecessary neologisms?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 February 2004 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

What would make a computer person "need" a convenient meaningless word?

Think of it as a box to put junk in. If the code was really good and tight, they wouldn't need it. Finding 2811 lines of code with it points to a bloated mess.

― BrianB (BrianB), Friday, 13 February 2004 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

its if you're too lazy to give a variable or function a real name. production code should NEVER use it.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 13 February 2004 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

So Microsoft developers include unnecessary words almost 3,000 times just because they're intentionally fucking with your memory??

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 13 February 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

"foo" and "bar" have been Comp Sci development memes since the 70s. They pretty much have their own colloquial meanings as "first" and "second" variables in small operations like swapping variable values, or connecting linked list data structures or what not. The main messenger of "foo" and "bar" have been Comp Sci professors in school, because they are distinct, each only require one syllable, and are easier to read, then "a" and "b", or "s" and "t", or "a1" and "a2", etc.

The use of "foo" in code doesn't necessarily mean the code is better or worse!

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

After careful use of the grep tool, it turns out that its all SysV code...

but seriously...donut bitch...when are you gonna stop teasing us and release the rest of the source?

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Friday, 13 February 2004 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

grep for swears people!

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Friday, 13 February 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, custos, here it is

void *MS_Windows(VERSION_ID,func_main,HLOCAL_USER_KEY,HLOCAL_COUNTRY_KEY)
{
while(1)
{
fwrite(0xDEADBEEF,"Hello, Life Sucks Fuckin Die\n");
}
}

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 13 February 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahahahahahaha!

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Saturday, 14 February 2004 01:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course, all it really takes is a developer leaving a laptop on a car seat or something- smash window, take laptop, crack encryption on the hard drive at yr leisure, and it's all yours.

I'd be amazed if that much source code was found off a server. Most large software development is done almost entirely remote.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 14 February 2004 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Wasn't there some XP code stolen by russian hackers a couple years back?

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Saturday, 14 February 2004 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Well yeah, I always ssh in, but I'm a Linux dev. MS uses Visual Studio; doesn't that keep copies of the code local on your box?

And a few years back someone got access to the MS network via a home computer, but i don't remember that they reached src code...

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 14 February 2004 03:27 (twenty-two years ago)

MS makes a visual studio, don't know if they use it for OS development. If I remeber, I'll ask on Monday.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 14 February 2004 03:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, when I worked at MS (97-98) it was used in the group I was in. I wasn't in OS development, though.

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 14 February 2004 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

You weren't with Office products were you?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 14 February 2004 03:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Heh, yeah, I was. Is Office the only one that uses it? I wasn't actually an SDE there, I just knew they used Visual Studio, and I seemed to recall that it kept some copies of things local, and had the main repository on a server. Src management with that was so much a nightmare at times. Oh my god. Err, not that cvs is perfect, but....

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 14 February 2004 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

CVS is miles ahead of SCCS.

But I may know a programmer you worked with. Im pretty sure those are the years he was there.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 14 February 2004 04:27 (twenty-two years ago)

CVS can bite me. I spent my morning tagging files between branches and I will kill myself if I have to cvs tag -F fuckyoucvs again before Monday morning. I've been on a wonky 6 AM - 10 AM, 1 PM - 7 PM work schedule for a while, and it screws my brain up to ask it to fix bugs at 6:30 AM.

Also, CNN has a oh dear, profanity in source code! article up this evening. ;-)

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:18 (twenty-two years ago)

HAHAHAHAH!

PROGRAMMERS CUSS? WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THAT SHIT?

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, you know, given software developers' well known mastery of networking and social conservatism.

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Ba, we wrapped all our CVS commands, all we have to do is add the start of the tag or even cut and paste it from another (hello Makefile anyone?) and we are off to the races.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:27 (twenty-two years ago)

foreach my $ineedabeer (keys %$hackedupshit->whatever() ){
#mmm, customers will never see this, who cares ;)
}

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:34 (twenty-two years ago)

But thats not reverse Hungarian Notation.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:37 (twenty-two years ago)

And you need a handle for your beer so lets see:
hlpwfineedabeer

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Is reverse hungarian like reverse polish?

― Jole (Jole), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:45 (twenty-two years ago)

we don't do Hungarian. perl is every man for himself.

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Jole, Hungarian notation is just a system wherein the beginning characters of a variable state which type it is. Supposedly makes code easier to read. Perl is so fast & loose with types, though, it makes no sense to use it, so it's largely a C++ type of deal.

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Lyra, that previous post is the sauciest thing you've ever posted to ilx. I'm impressed.

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I am drunk on 2 fingers of whisky. Am I actually still saying anything that makes any kind of sense? I hope not! ;-)

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 14 February 2004 05:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks! *returns to playing half-life*

― Jole (Jole), Saturday, 14 February 2004 06:18 (twenty-two years ago)

db yes users never see metasyntactic variables but other developers working on your code do and have to figure it the fuck out as opposed to if you name yr. variables something meaningful, not to mention that if you have to name FUNCTIONS something meaningful then you have to ask what they do and why they're a function and etc. and it forces you to avoid code spaghetti, at least a bit.

not to mention how confused you get by scope issues if you use difft. "foo" variables all over the place!

so yeah, bad development practice.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 14 February 2004 07:07 (twenty-two years ago)

/* Source Code to Windows 2000 */ #include "win31.h" #include "win95.h" #include "win98.h" #include "workst~1.h" #include "evenmore.h" #include "oldstuff.h" #include "billrulz.h" #include "monopoly.h" #define INSTALL HARD char make_prog_look_big[1600000]; void main() { while(!CRASHED) { display_copyright_message();display_bill_rules_message(); do_nothing_loop(); if (first_time_installation) { make_50_megabyte_swapfile(); do_nothing_loop(); totally_screw_up_HPFS_file_system(); search_and_destroy_the_rest_of_OS/2(); make_futile_attempt_to_damage_Linux(); disable_Netscape(); disable_RealPlayer(); disable_Lotus_Products(); hang_system(); } write_something(anything); display_copyright_message(); do_nothing_loop(); do_some_stuff(); if (still_not_crashed) { display_copyright_message(); do_nothing_loop(); basically_run_windows_3.1(); do_nothing_loop(); do_nothing_loop(); } } if (detect_cache()) disable_cache(); if (fast_cpu()) { set_wait_states(lots); set_mouse(speed, very_slow); set_mouse(action, jumpy); set_mouse(reaction, sometimes); } /* printf("Welcome to Windows 3.1"); */ /* printf("Welcome to Windows 3.11"); */ /* printf("Welcome to Windows 95"); */ /* printf("Welcome to Windows NT 3.0"); */ /* printf("Welcome to Windows 98"); */ /* printf("Welcome to Windows NT 4.0"); */ printf("Welcome to Windows 2000"); if (system_ok()) crash(to_dos_prompt) else system_memory = open("a:\swp0001.swp", O_CREATE); while(something) { sleep(5); get_user_input(); sleep(5);

act_on_user_input(); sleep(5); } create_general_protection_fault();

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Saturday, 14 February 2004 08:30 (twenty-two years ago)

(alter the above to fit yer personal fave brace style)

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Saturday, 14 February 2004 08:32 (twenty-two years ago)

It strikes me that if Microsoft was smart, everytime they distributed a copy of the source to an institution or a government agency or anyone else who might pull something like this (even internal company sections) they'd just change a character in a comment field and effectively render each distro completely unique, identifiable by hash.

Whoever did this is going to very publicly handled, either that, or they did this shit on purpose for reasons I don't like to think about.

― TOMBOT, Saturday, 14 February 2004 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 14 February 2004 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

so yeah, bad development practice.

Neither of us has seen the code, Sterling, so it's really presumptious of either of us to judge this thing we haven't seen.

All I'm saying is: for very simple functions like swapping, doing linked list, etc. of which there are usually a SHITLOAD of.. things that are often automatically generated to save the programmer time on doing real development tasks... things that have been tried and true in programming tasks since the 70s, "meaningless" (i.e. simple) variable names are often used.... and used far more often then meaningful variable names used in meaningful data structures, just because of the sheer amount of macro'd utilities in said tasks above one needs in data structures. So the AMOUNT of meaningless variables could easily have nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the programmers.

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 14 February 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Momus was trying to post a flash "project". It's like a poem, with noise, and you can't read it all at once.

Here is the link.

(xpost db)

― Jole (Jole), Saturday, 14 February 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

John Carmack, head engineer of iD software, engineer of the most popular PC game ever... was apparently the shittiest programmer in the world.. so really, trying to gauge the quality of the results over the quality of the programming is really silly.

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 14 February 2004 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

John Carmack also wasn't building a networked multi-user operating system that millions of people rely on to conduct confidential transactions and mission-critical business operation.

― TOMBOT, Saturday, 14 February 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Biggest deal about this code: NTFS (also quite possibly the scariest from a security perspective)

― TOMBOT, Saturday, 14 February 2004 19:54 (twenty-two years ago)

NTFS = Windows NT File system?

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 14 February 2004 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, and the same filesystem used on every windows OS since NT 4.0, the most recent version (NTFS 5) is in 2K and XP (and presumably Server 2K3 as well)

― TOMBOT, Saturday, 14 February 2004 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's scary mostly because MS wasn't coding from an open source frame of mind. Linux's file system code is freely available, and yeah, tons of people hack into Linux boxes every day. But if you really need to, you can do a very effective job of locking down a Linux box. And no one bemoans Linux being unsecure because hackers have the source code in front of them; the Linux developers know that they can't lean too heavily on security-through-obscurity.

I'd hope that after this MS learns to build security into their OSes which doesn't rely on obscurity so much, but actually uses a more robust model. Paranoia by developers has always struck me as a better construct.

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 14 February 2004 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Another interesting bit might be to see if Microsoft has actually been using any of Intel's undocumented opcodes in the assembly-coded bits, which I remember being a conspiracy floated about back in 1997 or some such.

I honestly wish I could be bothered to learn more about this stuff and not have to rely on slashdotters et al. for the nitty-gritty.

You can lock down a Win2K or NT box really well, actually, it's just that most administrators don't know what the fuck they're doing, which is more a problem with the MCSE program and the dismal lack of technical know-how in the field. To be honest most of the touted security problems with Windows have a lot to do with having a gigantic mass of screaming idiots for a userbase (lowest bidder gets the uh, worm)

― TOMBOT, Saturday, 14 February 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

But, MS could act more like Apple has with OS X as far as making it easier for said idiots to secure their computers. I was really worried about idiotic Mac users having unsecured *nix clones as their computers when OS X was first released, but it seems that Apple did a good of defaulting to a secure install.

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 14 February 2004 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread really hurt my head

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Saturday, 14 February 2004 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

John Carmack also wasn't building a networked multi-user operating system that millions of people rely on to conduct confidential transactions and mission-critical business operation.

Ur, I agree, Tom.. I was just arguing quality of code vs. quality of results with Sterling on that digression... not the consequences of code leaks.

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 14 February 2004 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

John Carmack, head engineer of iD software, engineer of the most popular PC game ever... was apparently the shittiest programmer in the world..

What?! The code for Quake, Doom etc is freely available and is pretty damn clean.

― Andrew (enneff), Saturday, 14 February 2004 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, after it was revised and improved, sure it is, Andrew. :)

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 14 February 2004 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

(Granted, it's not as if I've seen Carmack's code in front of me, and it is second-hand shit-talk, i'll admit.)

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 14 February 2004 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah. Carmack was legendary for fast and elegant code. It was Romero that was the klutz.
Granted: all the rumours of coding ineptitude came out right after the nasty split between the two Johns.* Each bitched about how crummy the other was as a coder. If the writer of "Masters of Doom" was to be believed, Carmack was an obsessive coding demigod and Romero was a clever but lazy. I've been waiting for a rebuttal book.

* Note = I mean Carmack and Romero, not Flandsberg and Linnell.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Sunday, 15 February 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

db not to be a total prick about this but if this is development code, then the macros haven't (i assume) been executed yet? i.e. sure you could have a macro which made nonsense variable names (even then its a bad idea coz it fuxors debugging!) but it would only make one when it executed -- i.e. when the code compiled. having macro generated code in yr. development base is also dumm practice since it defeats the point.

tom: what could ntfs code open up (outside of security breaches)?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 15 February 2004 03:22 (twenty-two years ago)

We could make a better NTFS driver for Linux finally. Not that it would be legal.

I wonder if it would be legal for someone in a country that doesn't have strong copyright laws to look at the Win2k source and make a specification for the NTFS crap that could be legally implemented?

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Sunday, 15 February 2004 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Lyra: Everybody should be required to spend 5 hours editing the registry and configuring user permissions before installing any additional software!!

DB: Sorry, I just thought if nobody else was going to point out the weakness of your metaphor I would go ahead and score some mod points for myself! Oh, wait.

Sterling: Just waiting for someone to write a gray-hat application that lets unix kids mount drives formatted under windows 2k et al. and write to them natively. Oh, the fun.

I'm still trying to figure out what filesystem is used on the iPod. I took a look at mine with WinHex at work one day and it was all googly-moogly. It does however store your username, quicktime version and the name of your computer. So if you ever need to identify a stolen iPod... but I digress.

― TOMBOT, Sunday, 15 February 2004 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

having macro generated code in yr. development base is also dumm practice since it defeats the point.

The point of what? Macros are small programming utilities used to optimize speed of compilation and resulting excecutables. They're no more obsolete than they were from the start. And macros are often very common limitations of development platforms like, say, X-Box games, where STL is (or at least at one point was) not allowed.

I doubt current MS code uses anything even self-called expert programmers use... it's all probably very specifically tied to DLLs and COM objects or what not, and is nothing remotely familiar to, say, game programming code or any other planet of programming... which is a perfect segue to my admission to Tom that using a game development analogy was indeed weak...(hey, i've been programming games for nine years, what else do i know?)

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 15 February 2004 04:00 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean yeah have macros in yr. code but they're only gonna generate junk variables en masse once they're *run*. altho i guess i can see how macro code itself could use junk names, but even then maybe i'm just a punk but it would bother me if the variable names weren't somewhat useful.

i guess maybe i'm just reactive coz this was drummed into my head by my profs who would occasionally call someone out for this sorta stuff.

its just if yr. building something this *vital* it strikes me as something where fun/games/loose practice should be right out the window.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 15 February 2004 04:16 (twenty-two years ago)

fun/games/loose practice should be right out the window.

Yeah, but Sterling, it's not like anybody else is gonna see the source code, you know

― TOMBOT, Sunday, 15 February 2004 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

here's more on that code leak, by the way

Well, if you're compiling the code, then it really doesn't matter what the variables are named. And macros just apply a bit of "unrolling", so to speak, in order to make the code run faster. It really depends.. there are many factors.

If this were code being interpreted at run-time, like in Flash Actionscript, then the variable naming would be a more important issue, surely.

The worst and first thing I did was insist on doing what my professors taught me to do at my first real programming job when i first started. My boss laughed and said "yeah, that's because they're going to be teaching for the rest of their lives -- they're never going to get a real programming job.".. ouch.

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 15 February 2004 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I guess it depends on your college... I like knowing CS theory and scheme, but it's not really related to the kind of perl hacking I do everyday. I realize AI classes & such are interesting, and useful to people going for PhDs in CS, but classes on database backed websites and secure programming practices and, oh, how to REALLY write good interfaces to shared objects would be far more useful. Most companies I've been at run a "ok, here is the real world" bootcamp for new programmers where you learn that sort of stuff. Well, I guess it depends on your college. I learned too much theory, not enough practical stuff.

― lyra (lyra), Sunday, 15 February 2004 05:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Heh, trust me, I went to UC Irvine, the Award Winning Comp Sci Theory So Far Up Its Own Delusionary Rectum program. There were a couple of rogue professors who taught more practical courses, and were a major part of my being able to adjust to real world programming, thankfully, but all in all, the theory I was taught actually did help me in the real world, but just on a subconscious level, and not on a resumé level.

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 15 February 2004 05:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Most important thing I learnt in school was in 2nd year when they taught us to RTFM.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Sunday, 15 February 2004 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.securitytracker.com/alerts/2004/Feb/1009067.html

FIRST EXPLOIT!!!

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Monday, 16 February 2004 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, I took a look, and decided that Microsoft is GAYER THAN AIDS.

Oh dear.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 16 February 2004 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.kuci.org/~brianm/ile/patsygates.jpg

ALL my workers are gay, dahling. ALL OF THEM, GAY!

― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 16 February 2004 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

// and like this will prevent fuckin memory access violation

― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 16 February 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Also:

Expert: Microsoft dominance poses security threat

― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 16 February 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Microsoft's desktop dominance honestly doesn't scare me nearly as much as that of Cisco IOS, if you want to talk about global network issues. Using a *nix box doesn't save anybody when the backbone shits itself.

― TOMBOT, Monday, 16 February 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

TOMBOT OTM.

Also, this bug is why C is a bad language and hurts people.

A real language could have caught that error two ways.

1) Bounds checking. (Array index -1 out of bounds, throw exception)
2) Type checking. (Trying to index into array with signed variable! I think most languages would allow this.)

Please kids, leave C to us REAL PROGRAMMERS.

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Monday, 16 February 2004 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, everyone should always program in lisp.

― lyra (lyra), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 03:18 (twenty-two years ago)

"thee"?

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 03:25 (twenty-two years ago)

(((lots)(of)(irritating)((()single))(((parentheses)?(()()(

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 04:51 (twenty-two years ago)

That's what emacs is for, it babysits them for you!

― lyra (lyra), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 04:55 (twenty-two years ago)

And DB, you guys are EVIL, my PM was hired away to MSN. He starts Monday. Thanks for doubling my workload until we hire a new guy!!!!!

― lyra (lyra), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 04:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, my contract ends at the end of March. After that, who knows if they care about my ass after that... maybe i'll get rehired in July. or not.

(not (blame Lyra me))

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 05:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm, do you know Java? I have a friend at BEA who told me they're look for java developers up here. And their office is really close to you.

― lyra (lyra), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 05:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Bea Arthur runs a web development house? F'IN A!

(I know Javascript, Actionscript 1.0 & 2.0, and am about to take a small course in C#, and I've gotten my feet wet in Java.. and have done C++ for 9 years.. is that good enough?)

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 05:42 (twenty-two years ago)

is that good enough? Java has like 1/4th the ~~unimplemented~~ features of C++.

ha ha ha >> sucks

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 06:55 (twenty-two years ago)

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