Marco Pantani RIP

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Right, now I know I'm out of touch with the real world... myself and my dad used to watch the Tour de France religiously every summer, and the one stage we actually saw live was the Pirate bringing home the yellow jersey in Paris in 1998. Sod the doping, he was always my favourite. RIP.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/3489569.stm

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I almost did a post on this. I feel intense sorrow for him and his family. It appears his battle with depression did him in, suicide or not.

As always, it's so complicated. He was one of the few who contacted Armstrong during his illness. He was almost certainly a cheater in an age and sport of cheaters.

To see him ascend at his peak was to believe in miracles. Was it true?

Sidenote: there's speculation that this year's ITT up the Alpe d'Huez is Leblanc's attempt to scrub Pantani's name off the record book. I think that this is not true, not the least because the guy won the Tour overall and multiple stages, so what would be the point of that? Warts and all, I have good memories of Pantani though.

― Hunter (Hunter), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

BTW, when I asked "was it true", I mean that open endedly-- maybe it was a miracle. And when I wrote "an age cheaters", I think I mean the past 25000 years. And when I declared 90s cycling a "sport of cheaters", I must add that for all its' flaws, I love cycling more than any other.

― Hunter (Hunter), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 01:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Il Pirata will always be my first cycling hero and biggest disappointment. Watching that man climb was like watching an angel. It's too snowy to ride here yet so I will don my Mercatone/Uno kit and spin on the trainer while watching the '99 Giro. Rest in Peace Marco, you earned it.

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 07:28 (twenty-two years ago)

marco was my favourite, watching him climb the spooky Col d'Izoard was like watching a man cycling to the moon. RIP

― zappi (joni), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 08:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I have never seen anyone climb as Pantani did. He was one of those athletes who was not only hugely sucessful, but also did it with huge grace and fluidity, such as to make superhuman things look the most natural things in the world.

RIP.

― Nick H (Nick H), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Totally agree. Dope can't give you the ability to do that.

For someone like him to win a Tour was an amazing achievement, because he was a little climber; the all-rounders usually have it in their pocket. There's really no greater sight in cycling than to see a climber take off. Pantani did that better than any climber I've seen.

― All Bunged Up. (Jake Proudlock), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

What a shitty old sad & lonely way to go. Poor old Marco.

― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Another sad thing is that he'll be a trivia question for many the more time goes on, the guy who last won the Tour before Lance Armstrong kicked in, a one-off that concluded the three-year interregnum after Indurain. As if winning only one Tour was somehow a piece of cake.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Also the latest rider to take the Giro and the Tour in the same year. Not that this is likely, but now tha LA has shown what specialization can do, maybe the last for a long time. I'm not one to elevate the dead, and I was so heartbroken by so many things that The Pirate did, but he really was the first guy to inspire me to ride on the road. I have been riding all my life but I never followed racing, at all. I knew who Lemond was when he was racing, but didn't care. When I went started mountain bike racing I paid attention to road racing as well. Pantani was jusyt coming back from the fucked up leg and caught my eye.
I could go for hours about this, and will in a bar I'm sure, but again you can only hope that a peaceful afterlife awaits us. This guy really deserves it.

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha Ned, you might be right about that trivia question, but one that'll only feature in american games/quizes (sp?) I'm sure. The other way around, Lance may become a trivia question in the european counterparts of said games in due time. (Name the racing cyclists who've managed to win the Tour de France 5 times). No offence to either cyclist intended here.
I've understood that Pantani was one of the very few fellow cyclists who stayed in contact with Armstrong while the latter battled cancer.
His was a truly sad demise, tragic. Dying alone in a lonely Rimini hotel. Well, like Speedy said, this is a topic which I prefer to talk about in a bar...

― willem (willem), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha Ned, you might be right about that trivia question, but one that'll only feature in american games/quizes (sp?) I'm sure.

Heh, we'll cling to our heroes as we find 'em! And right now that's just Greg and Lance!

Speedy, you're in SF, right? When I'm up there next, I'll get my sister to come along to a FAP or something, as she is a biking fanatic along with my dad -- both biked the Pyrenees and Alps routes of the Tour back in 2002.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

And right now that's just Greg and Lance!

b-b-but:
http://www.halfdan.dk/Cykel/profiler/billeder/tyler-hamilton.jpg

(Well, minor palmares in comparison, but if justice is served...)

If you ever get to Denver any of yas let me know, FAP, ride, whatever. Talking about cycling on ILX is weirding me out.

― Hunter (Hunter), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

(Well, minor palmares in comparison, but if justice is served...)

I freely agree, but remember America loves its winners (and if you go by Typical American Terminology as opposed to cycling fanatic terminology here and elsewhere, there's only one bike race a year and an American has been winning it recently = everything else is irrelevant).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Profoundly OTM. Yeah, that dude who's dating Sheryl Crow...

http://www.hellomagazine.com/film/2004/01/13/alongcamepolly/imgs/pollyprem-dop1b.jpg

― Hunter (Hunter), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm afraid Tyler will be remember the way Andy Hampsten is today. How many remember him? He won the Giro, the Alp d'Huez stage of the tour, and finished as high as fourth in the Tour.

But back to Pantani. He was truly a character. I still love the oddball characters of the sport more than the greats.

― David Beckhouse (David Beckhouse), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

But did Andy Hampsten ride the Tour with a broken collarbone?

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

No but his riding Giava pass in a blizzard is almost as great of an exploit.

― David Beckhouse (David Beckhouse), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, more people'll remember both of them than will remember George Hincapie or Bobby... fuck, what was his name? used to ride for Cofidis, now with Credit Agricole... Bobby... him, anyway. He was meant to be a proper bigshot a couple of years ago, now I've totally forgotten his name.

JULICH! Bobby Julich. He podiumed, didn't he?

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:29 (twenty-two years ago)

3rd in 1998, the year Pantani won. He's riding for CSC this year.

― David Beckhouse (David Beckhouse), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Crikey, his stock's fallen. I've forgotten who CSC have...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Not Tyler anymore. He switched to Phonak.

CSC has a pretty good squad but no real tour contender other than Sastre who's a top 5 at best.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2004/teams2004/CSC.shtml

― David Beckhouse (David Beckhouse), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuck me, that's a squad. No obvious leader, true, but Bartoli, Basso and Guidi have all been Men Most Likely To... in the past, haven't they? Luttenberger's solid in the climbs, if I remember right, and they have psycho-hardman Jens Voigt, who's always an asset. Julich might just do alright there.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

It has just struck me how utterly out of touch I am with cycling outside the tour - all the Italians just blur into one, for starters.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Bartoli is probably past his prime but old guys can do great things in the classics. Its better all-around than the team Tyler left for. All this team needs is a real GC contender, they'll do just fine in the Team Time Trial.

― David Beckhouse (David Beckhouse), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Looking through the teams now, f'rinstance - Cofidis. Obviously they've got Big Dave Millar, and they seem to have acquired two sprinters in Wee Jimmy Casper and Stewie O'Grady. Other than this, though, I'm rather at a loss as to the rest of their squad, with the exception of Cedric 'Greatest Breakaway Ever (that I can remember)' Vasseur, Farazijn, Lelli and Moncoutie (who my mind is suffixing '... has fallen off... ooh, that looks nasty...')

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and Clain and Gaumont, cos they tend to get dropped off breaks early.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:14 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, so they don't have Gaumont anymore:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/3432307.stm

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Cofidis is stacked but I doubt their organization. The doping crisis won't help. Remember all of Millar's bleating about their system being broken? He may be correct.

I agree with Beckhouse assessment of CSC, depending on how legit you figure Hamilton is for GC, CSC is not much worse off. How can you not like Jaksche and Basso? Bartoli is an old horse, I don't know what you'll get out of that.

― Hunter (Hunter), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, not stacked... they've got rainbow power though.

― Hunter (Hunter), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

They're better than the team he's left for. I guess the offer of being outright team leader must have been a big pull. Plus potentially lording it over Alex Zuelle.

Think we need a new thread for this talk tho. This 'un's for Marco.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's Talk Cycling

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Speedy, you're in SF, right?
Nope, Ned, I am in Jackson, Wyoming. And for the first time I wish i was in S.F. so that a FAP with you would happen. I am moving to Boise in April, but that is still a bit out of the way for ILXers I suppose.

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 08:59 (twenty-two years ago)

But back to Pantani. He was truly a character. I still love the oddball characters of the sport more than the greats.

B-but Pantani was a great. Winning the Tour = great in my opinion. Ullrich has only won it once but I would consider him great.

Thinking about it, I must have been watching the Tour for about 12 years now, but I've only seen 5 winners; Indurain, Riis, Ullrich, Pantani and Armstrong. Of those, Pantani was the most exciting, easily.

― Nick H (Nick H), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

The latest news from the autopsy is that Marco's bone marrow was "burned out" possibly due to over use of EPO. This was not a cause of death, but they are now looking at cocaine being a contributing factor. It is a shame that none of this is a surprise. I am not picking on Marco, but the peloton is just that full of drugs. I know guys that dope in amatuer races. I am not making a blanket statement, but it is amazing how much drug abuse is a part of sports.

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I've always thought Vets category was the place to look for ridiculous doping-- without any hard evidence mind you. Just the money and effort these old dudes put into a hobby that they clearly stake their self-worth on. If only juniors programs had half the cash investment of some of the Vets I see at races. I raced amateur 12 years and never saw proof of doping, though I did see some guys get very much better after long plateaus.

(As someone who shoved a lot of money and effort down that same hole. No doping for me though, as results seem to confirm.)

― Hunter (Hunter), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

No doping for me though, as results seem to confirm.
(haha!) That's me for sure. I only race for the beer at the finish. I've seen guy in their late 20's early 30's that were starting to lose/never had that killer thing it takes to win place or show in a race train, train, train, and still be slowing down, then suddenly after a couple of seasons of this, start to shoot back up the list. I never really thought much about it until I was told, flat out that they were dopng. I know a guy who used to shoot for Velonews and spent a season following World Cup Mtn. races. He said that inhalers littered the start areas. The ICF(?) would outlaw a new medication every week only to have it replaced by the next race.

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

After a long plateau I had a great year at age 34. Why? I had lost my job the previous winter and rode my ASS off. It was cool. Until Mrs. Hunter laid down the employment law.

I only race for the beer at the finish.

My t-shirt from 2002 Vail Camp Hale race: "WILL RACE FOR BEER". Yup.

― Hunter (Hunter), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Amid the tears, Mamma Tonina Pantani hugged Marco's coffin and poignantly wished her son farewell on his final journey, saying "goodbye, goodbye, goodbye Marco, goodbye baby, goodbye beautiful boy."

I'm totally wrecked.

― Hunter (Hunter), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

*shakes head* Nothing to add to that.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Dope or no dope, that motherfucker could ride.

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Thursday, 19 February 2004 08:13 (twenty-two years ago)

No,they shouldn't dope. It's a disgrace. But they're still my heroes all the same, because if so many are doping then the best are still probably winning. I mean, Pantani beat the other dopers up the mountains.

Who I do feel sorry for is the non-dopers, like Hunter and Gonzales, here. But by the sound of it, maybe they are having a better time.

― All Bunged Up. (Jake Proudlock), Thursday, 19 February 2004 09:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't get me wrong, I dope. It just doesn't have anything to do with bike racing ;)

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Thursday, 19 February 2004 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Dope: see wine thread- that's how pathetic I've got.

ABU, obv. I am so far below that europro level that it's kinda humorous to be referenced on the same thread, but your point is OTM with respect to pro level athletes out there that must make this decision. It is their livelihood, and the psychological pressure must be enormous to juice just to maintain. Hardcore "take responsibility" types are correct to say that one has ultimate control of one's own body, however a culture of doping contrives to wrest some of that control from the athlete. I never hear Americans in the major US sports talk about this aspect. They just seem to say, "well, taking drugs itself is immoral." Grrr.

Dying alone on an (alleged) coke binge points to other very serious problems altogether.

― Hunter (Hunter), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The lastest word, from cyclingnews.com is that one of Pantani's relatives, a doctor, had been consulted by the family to stop Marco's CRACK ADDICTION! No shit. There is also an interesting article by a former teammate saying that they were aware of Marco's exclution from the Giro a full 12 hours before the hemocrit (sp?) test that were cited. If you don't know this story, go here http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/feb04/feb20news

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Friday, 20 February 2004 09:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Crack addiction story is here http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/feb04/feb19news2

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Friday, 20 February 2004 09:12 (twenty-two years ago)

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