most heartbreaking failure

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have you ever had your heart broken because something by one or your favorite musicians/directors/writers/etc turns out to be indefensively, terrifically bad even as it bears the obvious marks of his/her craft?

i just had such an experience with john ford's 'cheyenne autumn'

what a stinker, by god (more later perhaps)...every few shots is beautifully composed, and there are 'fordian' moments throughout just so you can't assume that his third assistant director took over or something, but the film is a huge mess just the same, i was covering my eyes in shame much of the last two-thirds of the thing

relate other stores

― amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 22 February 2004 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

stories i mean

― amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 22 February 2004 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

likewise "indefensively" should be "indefensably" or something like that

i can't spell anymore

― amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 22 February 2004 23:20 (twenty-two years ago)

The Sacrifice by Tarkovsky. The pieces just don't add up unfortunately..

― daria g (daria g), Sunday, 22 February 2004 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

being a big robert altman fan can't be very much fun.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 22 February 2004 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that when I tried to watch 'serious' Woody Allen films for a whole week I realized that the man wasn't nearly as talanted as I'd presumed: Bullets over Broadway, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Husbands anad Wives, were in my estimation overwrought and pretentious. And I used to dig Altman fanatically. Then I saw Brewster McCloud and Prêt-à-Porter

― The Second Drummer Drowned (Atila the Honeybun), Sunday, 22 February 2004 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Please redistribute the punctuation in that last post. I was so heartbroken that I forgot grammar.

― The Second Drummer Drowned (Atila the Honeybun), Sunday, 22 February 2004 23:45 (twenty-two years ago)

When Celtic lost the UEFA Cup Final to Porto last May. I am well aware of Bobo Balde's defensive frailties, that a Scottish team just aren't cut out to compete at the highest level in Europe, that Henrik Larsson alone isn't enough to fulfil my wildest dreams...but still, I went to Seville with a fair amount of optimism and it wasn't repaid as much as I would have liked.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

you saw Brewster McCloud and Pret-a-Porter!! You got off easy. I've seen O.C. & Stiggs and Cookie's Fortune!!

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Sour Grapes

― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, I love O.C. and Stiggs!

― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Apparently the original script is one of the funniest things in the world and Altman just really fucked it up because he was so strung out when he was making it. I've heard they're considering a remake.

― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I am ashamed to report that I can't get the release of Kill Uncles out of my head.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I even mistyped the title to register the still festering disgust.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i remember enjoying the original story in the national lampoon. that's when john hughes was writing stuff like My Vagina.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

at least i think he wrote that My Vagina story. Maybe i'm confusing that story with My First Blowjob.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 23 February 2004 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"Terror Twilight", yecch

― Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

really, i liked that record. i actually hadn't listened to them since the first record and after hearing the last record i went and bought all the middle records. i like the rock jams.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I am ashamed to report that I can't get the release of Kill Uncles out of my head.

Don't you like 'Sing Your Life'?

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

At the time it struck as a very minor, inconsequential song unworthy of being a single. I haven't heard it for years.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)

'Kill Uncle' is full of minor, inconsequential songs, sung beautifully. The reason why Morrissey is shit nowadays (new album notwithstanding) is that, partly owing to the criticism given 'Kill Uncle' he feels obliged to deliver major, consequential songs. See 'Reader Meet Author' if you want to feel the full horror of this situation.

'Kill Uncle' is 'I Know It's Over' done for fun. The voice is flexible for the last time.

'Kill Uncle' is Morrissey's ambient work. It is all tone and reverberation.

'Kill Uncle' is the last time Morrissey stuck crazy words into song: jumper; chihuahua; Tizer; microphone.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

All your points make me want to listen to it again, except for the last one, which put me off again.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:58 (twenty-two years ago)

that was his best point. : (

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 23 February 2004 01:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Incidentally, the "partly owing to the criticism given 'Kill Uncle' he feels obliged to deliver major, consequential songs" bit doesn't ring true to the stubborn old Morrissey I know.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:01 (twenty-two years ago)

'Beyond the Sunrise'.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The prosecution put it to you that there's no way 'Kill Uncle' remotely matches 'Viva Hate' for ambient tone and reverberation.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:13 (twenty-two years ago)

the red shoes, kate bush

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously, listen to the second, totally hitless, side of 'Kill Uncle'. Also, specifically listen to The Harsh Truth of the Camera Eye which staunch Morrissey fans hate and which, I agree, has the worst lyrics of his career up to that point. But it's also the most subtly rewarding arrangement of his solo career, and the tone & the natural relaxed melody of the vocal is lovely. No-one could pretend the songs (i.e. chords + lyrics) on 'Kill Uncle' are M's most weighty, but, as current Nick Cave threads on ILM discuss, reliance on weightiness of the song can be dull as fuck (also proved by M's subsequent work). 'Kill Uncle' sounds to me like Morrissey singing in the shower & I like it.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

The prosecution put it to you that there's no way 'Kill Uncle' remotely matches 'Viva Hate' for ambient tone and reverberation.

'Viva Hate' is mostly about great songs, and where it's not (everything after Suedehead really) it's too uptight to charm.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:17 (twenty-two years ago)

No singer has put his lips closer to the microphone than Morrissey for the opening line, "Your boyfriend, he went down on one knee..."

Critics thought the point of the song was that the next line went, "well could it be he's only got one knee?", and they laughed at the bad lyrics.

But the point of the song was that Morrissey's lips were very very close to the microphone and, for once, you didn't need to uncover meanings in lyrics & shit, it was just about vodka & tizer & nonsense that left you free to hear (as did the sparse arrangement) Morrissey's lips close to the microphone.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

And lord knows we all want that.

*vomits*

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, to contribute to this thread properly: Stay on These Roads.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha - 'King Leer' was one of only two songs on it I liked when I first got it. I liked the tinkle tinkle teatime piano.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the piano too.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

My big problem with the internet is that when people say *vomits*, I don't believe them. No offence, Sean. It's not you, it's the LOLers. I hope you did have a mouthful of sick, but I suspect you didn't.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 23 February 2004 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, Eyeball, I just don't like Morrissey, and enjoy poking fun at him. I didn't actually vomit.

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 23 February 2004 03:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Pistons losing to the Magic tonight on a turnover with 10 secs left hurts. Real bad.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Monday, 23 February 2004 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Even now just thinking about Kill Uncle almost makes me sick to my stomach, it was that disappointing.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 23 February 2004 04:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Five words, people. Five words:

"In A World Gone Mad".

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 23 February 2004 04:08 (twenty-two years ago)

the '94 and '99 knicks. the '83, '93, and '03 phillies.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 23 February 2004 04:09 (twenty-two years ago)

yea, definitely Morrissey.
Some of Terry Riley's stuff rubs me the wrong way.
I really want to like Woody Allen, but I can't. One time I had a dream about him and he was supposed to kiss me but he didn't and i was sort of bothered when i woke up.

But mostly its me, I've done some real asshole things in my day and I don't reckon myself to be much of an asshole.

― sunjammerr, Monday, 23 February 2004 06:29 (twenty-two years ago)

It occurs to me from the various posts here that I don't think Morrissey's made a bad album, in and out of the Smiths. And that's quite all right with me. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 23 February 2004 06:37 (twenty-two years ago)

For a long while there, it was exceedingly rough being a Spurs fan who also roots for any team in general playing against the Lakers. God, the 1990s were absolutely dreadful in the world of sports -- for me, at least. Thank goodness I've seen some payback for those years.

I've got the special Duran fan rose-tinted lenses that enables me to actually be able to listen to the musical clunkers they've put out ("Shotgun", "UMF", "Drowning Man", "Hothead", "Read My Lips", "Can You Deal With It", and "Downtown" come to mind) and still be as huge a fan of theirs as I am. And I know they completely sold out in 2001 by doing that big "Fab Five reunion" thing, and I know I was angry at them for selling out like that, but I've since gotten over it and have learned to just have fun with everything, even if they're no longer as true to themselves as they once were.

On the other hand -- I stopped being an "Ally McBeal" fan when they made Billy out to be a sexist pig (talk about not being true to character!), when they started introducing more characters after Nelle and Ling (who were RATHER useful to the story), and when it became more ridiculous.

― Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Monday, 23 February 2004 06:43 (twenty-two years ago)

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