Are UK teachers more severe graders?

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I go to school in the USA, but in the course of my undergraduate studies I've had two professors from the UK, and my wife has had one too. Both of us are usually straight A students, but we couldn't manage even a single A- between those three classes. I, for one, had the feeling that in at least one of these classes the quality of my work was about on par with other classes in which I had received A's (I don't think that apostrophe should be there, but "As" doesn't look right).

Anyway, I'm not bitter about it. If anything I'm worried that I've been graded too leniently throughout my academic career. So what do you all think? Is there anyone here who has attended school on both sides of the Atlantic and can tell us about it?

Also, what about other countries? I've heard that schoolwork in France is difficult (the BAC, for instance, sounds like a nightmare that I'm glad I never had to go through).

― Dan I., Monday, 23 February 2004 04:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I suspect (from empirical and anecdotal evidence only) that the standard of education in the UK is higher than in the USA.

― dude0r, Monday, 23 February 2004 05:12 (twenty-two years ago)

That could be, but I always got the impression that it was the USA's elementary and high schools that were deficient, but that the colleges varied enought that they couldn't be generalized to be lacking (anyway, the colleges I've been to are mostly not hot shit, but certainly weren't of the bottom of the barrel community college or DeVry institute variety)

― Dan I., Monday, 23 February 2004 05:17 (twenty-two years ago)

basically it's all about specialisation. In the UK kids start specialising at 16 (four subject) and generally only study one at university (although more and more universities are providing opportunities for a broader curriculum). In general though a studenmt at a UK university does nothing but tthere own subject so will have a greater depth of knowledge and skill for that one subject. So a lecturer marking a 3 year effort in the UK would expect more than a US lecturere marking a US third year student. But marking US students to UK standards seems a bit unfair.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 23 February 2004 05:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Woah! I didn't know that! You guys really only study one subject in all of college? It's almost like jumping straight into grad school.

― Dan I., Monday, 23 February 2004 05:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno... I went to a very good college in the US and a half-decent one in the UK and I found that the standards at the UK one didn't come close to the US one. But I have a feeling that this exception kinda proves the rule.

― The Second Drummer Drowned (Atila the Honeybun), Monday, 23 February 2004 05:59 (twenty-two years ago)

painting with the broadest brush strokes here

― Ed (dali), Monday, 23 February 2004 06:01 (twenty-two years ago)

It sort of does explain the way my profs graded though. I mean, obviously they're consciously aware of the differences in how school works between the two places, but on some level they must be thinking to themselves "I knew so much more about this subject than this guy does when I was his age and I still had to work hard; there's no way I'm going to give him a good grade."

― Dan I., Monday, 23 February 2004 06:02 (twenty-two years ago)

My experience with university chimes with what The Second Drummer Drowned said. My professors were very lax.

That said, you have to remember that a mark of 70% in the UK is very very good. An average grade is between 55%-62%. No one ever makes 80%.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 23 February 2004 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Professors on JYA programmes rarely give a shit about the students, I've found.

The difference between American and British education is very pronounced between the ages of 15-18. Although Ed is correct about having to whittle subjects, in America the college-bound also wind up specialising towards their interests (my final two years were Humanities heavy and very maths-lite) but it isn't underscored officially like you get with A levels.

I think if I'd have received a mark of 80 or less on a paper it would have given me the screaming abdabs. But the British system of 'how on Earth can the work of a student be perfect?' is pretty spot-on regardless of my perfectionism neurosis.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Basically anything above 75% on an essay based subject is almost unheard of (the thinking being that the best essay written by the number one authority on that subject if it was perfect would get 100%). Of course this is ridiculously arbritrary, but can cause consternation. Equally a first, or a masters distinction is an average of 70% or above.

But what Suzy says regarding JYA students is cock on, they are a bit of free money. They don't want to work, the grades are rarely transfered and so no-one really bothers.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

This is exactly why I did not do JYA (apart from being on scholarship and thus not able to afford the upkeep abroad) although the Sarah Lawrence/Oxford programme at Wadham is actually one of the best available. But as a JYA you are still put in with the freshers, which feels whack but is in fact probably right-on.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yes, the Sarah Lawrence thing at Wadham.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

and you know what about this, Cantab boy?

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Er, dude, I was Wadham for a year doing my MSc!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

The worst kind of Tab.

Ahem, I was in a band at Wadham briefly. They kicked me out when I insisted on them playing my striking political song about the ramrading and joyriding phenomenon which had gripped Blackbird Leys "The Ice-Cream Van Plays On". Pity, if they stuck with me we could have been as big as The Coldplays.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

its kind of unfair to say that UK tutors are more severe graders. When I taught US exchange students in London it seemed to me that American lecturers gave A's far too readily. Many of the students expected an A-grade simply for fulfilling the assignment, rather than for excelling at it. It is not severe to expect some correspondence between ability and grade.

― run it off (run it off), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

You guys really only study one subject in all of college? It's almost like jumping straight into grad school.

That's been the historical norm in England (not in Scotland, so much). Quite a few people do a joint honours or even a wacky combined arts course, though.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Soz Ricky, I'd no idea - my Wadham pals tell me that the SLC students were worth having around.

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Mickey mouse degrees like Maths & Philosophy you mean Nick?

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Ooh everyone stop saying these combined degrees are mickey mouse courses, I'm finding it hard enough to take a deep breath and say I want to do a combined BA (politics philosophy and hist'ree) as it is!

― Sarah (starry), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I never said anything about the being Mickey Mouse!

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

'them' bleh

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 23 February 2004 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought Mickey Mouse degrees were supposed to be "BA (Hons) in Madonna Studies" or something, not combined awards...

― run it off (run it off), Monday, 23 February 2004 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I'm not bitching about their presence, I just thought the way it was set up was a suboptimal. Because there were so many of them, and their programme was so organised they seemed to end up rather segregated from the main student body. IIRC, they were even housed separately. From my outsiders point of view it looked mildly self-defeating.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 23 February 2004 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

My degree is not mickey mouse, despite what I said now. And since I am now doing a masters in James Bond and mobile phone studies I cannot really argue on that front.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 23 February 2004 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

My first-ever University essay scored 90%. Even if you allow for the fact that my tutor was probably grading a little easier as it was our first try, this is an *impossibly* high mark. I have absolutely no idea how it happened. For the rest of my time at university, I was struggling to get A's (and the A-boundary was 70%).

(OK, I had trawled the library stacks for the original sources on the subject - the origins of geology and archaeology. I still don't think it was worth 90%, though)

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 23 February 2004 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

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