Is the welfare state a victim of its own success?

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Discuss. I bet The Economist thinks so.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 25 February 2004 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't even know what that means.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 25 February 2004 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Does it mean that the more public benefits and services a government provides, the more the governed expects from the government? (What a clunky way to put it!)

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 25 February 2004 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

The terms "welfare state" and "success" don't belong in the same universe, let alone the same sentence.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 25 February 2004 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Daddino, your interpretation is what we've grown up with, hence the bad rap welfare gets. If there are any success stories at all, tis rarely publicised.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 25 February 2004 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

watch out, you don't want to ponder ideas like that on ILX.

― D Aziz (esquire1983), Wednesday, 25 February 2004 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Stop being such a crybaby. If you could argue your points rationally no one would have a problem with you.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 25 February 2004 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Diablo, you're on fire! But stop being so negative, otherwise you'll never amount to anything in life.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 25 February 2004 23:54 (twenty-two years ago)

The economists line on the welfare state is probably: healthy people buy more stuff, and its a great way of feeding money into the economy, bring it on.

To answer the question, to a certain extent yes. The health service fo one has had a real problem limiting itself in what it treats, cf the current debate over how many rounds of IVF should be free on the NHS. Some people see somethings essential where others might see them as a luxury.

In other areas, it's up to the social contract between government and people where the limits are drawn. The notion that, for example, ready and availible unemployment benefits and income support discourages people from working exists more in the mind of the rightist forces of reaction than in reality.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 26 February 2004 00:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course I am speaking from the country of Beveridge, Keynes, Bevin, Bevan and Atlee.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 26 February 2004 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Diablo as evidenced by the thread in which I "argued" I can argue my points quite rationally, as opposed to the hot headed leftists on this site.

― D Aziz (esquire1983), Thursday, 26 February 2004 00:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Your use of "as opposed to" marks you as a rational champeen. Please, pontificate!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 26 February 2004 00:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I have two jobs and a half (and another "quarter" on top of that, sometimes)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 26 February 2004 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

good job I'm a rational pragmatic socialist then

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 26 February 2004 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Nichole please explicate.

― Allyzay, Thursday, 26 February 2004 01:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally, remind me to do it again tomorrow morn, as I'm being kicked out to begin my usual odyssey home.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 26 February 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Um, did somone delete some posts of what? The welfare state is a victim of the Tories, and of the disastrous turn of the world economy about 1973, surely?

― ENRQ (Enrique), Thursday, 26 February 2004 11:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Those on the right, especially the American right, want to see the welfare state minimised or completely eradicated. They know, nonetheless, that the state will not disappear altogether because the state does not restrict itself to alleviating the worst effects of capitalism but also makes capitalism possible, through the forces of law and the military.

So, the choice seems clear enough. Do you want a welfare state or a police state?

― run it off (run it off), Thursday, 26 February 2004 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

El Diablo ist rad, if I haven't said that before.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 February 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Is the welfare state a victim of its own success?

The welfare state is a victim.
State the success of the victim.
Its welfare is a success.

Own the victim. Its a success.
Success: a victim of its own.

― Aimless (Aimless), Thursday, 26 February 2004 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you Martin Amis? Amis, Martin: are you?

― ENRQ (Enrique), Thursday, 26 February 2004 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

as evidenced by the thread in which I "argued" I can argue my points quite rationally

Remind us again where your vision of the universe was the standard everyone automatically agreed on?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 February 2004 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Aimless by name...

― run it off (run it off), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

seven years pass...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us/even-critics-of-safety-net-increasingly-depend-on-it.html
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/02/12/us/entitlement-map.html

american politics in one sentence:

Support for Republican candidates, who generally promise to cut government spending, has increased since 1980 in states where the federal government spends more than it collects. The greater the dependence, the greater the support for Republican candidates.

― iatee, Sunday, 12 February 2012 16:41 (fourteen years ago)

Would like to rub many relatives' noses in this article.

― Steamtable Willie (WmC), Sunday, 12 February 2012 16:51 (fourteen years ago)

i love how "utica" is a major city on that map

― diln (k3vin k.), Sunday, 12 February 2012 17:05 (fourteen years ago)

bobby fischer seems alive and well ("glad I ain't your age")

― diln (k3vin k.), Sunday, 12 February 2012 17:09 (fourteen years ago)

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