Being possessed by Satan: C/D

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Speaking of Unexplained Mysteries and Phenomena - S/D...

My boss told me to addd someone to my prayer list. (And I said - "what in the hell are you talking about? I don't have a prayer list..!?" Probably the wrong response in this case, but kinda funny also in retrospect..)

A kid she's been working with who has bounced around between detention centers and foster homes freaked out and started vomiting and saying "lucifer.. lucifer.." He claimed to be possessed by demons.

I'm certainly not calling him a liar. I don't think he was putting on a show. But everyone has bought into this thing as if he's actually possessed. I've kept my mouth shut, but my thinking is that the only people who ever get "possessed" are the people who are afraid of just that.

-Do you think it's possible to be possessed by demons?
-Assuming general ILX skepticism will indicate "BAAAahahahaha", do you think that people who claim to be possessed truly believe they are & are having genuine psychosomatic reactions?

Bonus question: How do you respond to people who who get freaked out and start praying?

Digression: Is prayer nothing more than introspection?

― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyone who really believes in possession has no business working in children's welfare! The kid needs counselling and help, not an exocisim. Prayer is fine.

(Still, the Amityville Horror freaked me out!)

― andy, Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Obviously belief in this would require belief in demons. Being atheist I would prescribe the kid's problems to mental illness. Schizophrenia, pyscho-affective disorder. ..whatever. Someone with delusions and hallucinations caused by disorders such as these do believe they are real, so yeah, that boy probably believes himself to be possessed.

I think prayer is nothing more than introspection. Which is great.

I usually keep my mouth shut about praying. Which is hard when, for example, we have a group prayer before faculty meetings.

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

(She doesn't work in child welfare, by the way. She's just a big sister.)

The Exorcism is an interesting thing I had left off. They want to do a fucking exorcism! But do you think it will help just to get the kid over the idea? If he thinks he's clean, will he be more willing to accept counseling?

― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

He needs medical (pyschiatric) help.

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think medieval practices are what's needed. The kid probably needs a trip to a dude ranch.

― andy, Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

There are explanations for "demonic possession" that don't depend on psychosomatism -- but to actually answer the question, no, I don't believe in demonic possession (or demons at all), and yes, I think many of the people who have claimed to be possessed truly believed, or were convinced, that was the explanation.

― Tep (ktepi), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Strange, just picked up The Amityville Horror 3 in a charity shop today. Had a story about a priest who was instantly able to spot fakers from real posessions. Apparently, if you just tell fake possesions that you are on to them, they will stop. Immediately. And stop bothering their parents. Apparently. (I thought that was fairly facetious myself, but hey. Written by a bloke who claimed to have been exorcised himself.)

(The real Satan in the story was pretty silly though. Not a patch on the first Amityville book.)

― The River Kate (kate), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree - but if the whole notion of possession is psycho-quackery, is it possible to talk sense into a person who believes it? I sort of think the exorcism thing might be a good start just so the kid can feel assured that the boogeyman isn't in his soul. After that, maybe someone can reach him through his brain.

xxxpost

― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

(rosemary's baby is classic!)

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Amityville Horror 2 = V.C. Andrews meets The Exorcist

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

but if the whole notion of possession is psycho-quackery, is it possible to talk sense into a person who believes it?

I think the idea of "talking sense into them" is wrong-headed. Those are their beliefs, who are you to try and tell them it's wrong?

In this case it doesn't seem an exorcism would neccesarily cause harm. Probably won't address the true problem but is not endangering the child.

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

The book or the film, Rosemary? The book is written by the same bloke who wrote AH3, so I bet it's rubbish,. Though they went out of their way to point out that the book AH2 was *nothing* to do with the film. Sigh.

The first book was creepy and scary because so little was actually witnessed. It was all mysterious and weird and strange sounds and smells and presences, and those FLIES which were creepy as heck,

AH3 was just one long creature feature of scary devils with pigs heads and big teeth, and not *nearly* as frightening.

― The River Kate (kate), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:19 (twenty-one years ago)

who are you to try and tell them it's wrong?
Better stated: help them feel better about what's troubling them....

― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

helping people is so played out.

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Whatever helps people is the treatment that they need. It varies from person to person.

Some people believe that talking to a bearded old man about their childhood will help them, and it does. Some people believe that numbing their brains with pyschotropic drugs will help them, and it does. Some people believe that praying and having a priest conduct a magic-ritual over your head will help them, and it does.

When talking about disorders of the mind/soul (delete according to your religious or scientific or philosophical beliefs), the *belief* that something will help you is often far more effacious than the actual method.

It probably matters very little what is "actually" wrong with the kid. What matters is what the kid thinks is wrong with him. If what the kid wants is attention, then he's going to do whatever is required to get him that attention, whether on a subconscious or conscious level.

People who crave attention will always find a way to get it - either in a socially acceptible or creative manner, or in a negative and destructive manner, whether it be exhibiting the symptoms of possession, or threatening suicide on an internet message board.

― The River Kate (kate), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought the whole Amityville Horror thing had pretty much been dismissed as a profiteering hoax:

http://chatanuga.org/Amityville.html

― andy, Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Kate, I was referring to the film. I read the first book when I was 12, and I always wanted to read the other books!

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought this thread was "being possessed by Santana". I'd choose satan.

― Chris 'The Velvet Bingo' V (Chris V), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Another hoax link that's a little more succinct:

http://www.prairieghosts.com/amityville.html

― andy, Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought this thread was "being possessed by Santana". I'd choose satan.

But Santana has such better clothes!

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

That is an arguable point.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

devils, just like gods, are creations of the every amazing human imagination. People can be possessed by an idea, ought to try and displace it with rational though rather than by other wacked out crazy ideas.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.seahaas.com/santana.gif

http://www.skatedc.org/pix/halloween98/devils.jpg

i mean, come on, the hat!

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

which is worse being possessed by satan of being possessed by the idea that benny hinn is other more that a schyster with a dodgy tailor.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

that's kind of condescending isn't it Ed?

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm very magnanimous in my religious intolerance, I'm intolerant to all religions equally.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

that's kind of condescending isn't it Ed?

When you live near TBN like I do, feeling condescending to them is the least of it.

About the whole Amityville thing -- to me the creepy parts have always been the murders carried out before the 'haunting' hoohah. Never saw the film all the way through but I did see the opening part when I was fairly young and the imagery of the family member systematically killing off everyone else in the house while they slept was really disturbing, and lingered for a long time as a fear in my head.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

forcing your disbelief on others (or passing judgement on them b/c of your disbelief) is just as bad as them forcing their's on you.

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.netzeitung.de/img/0049/120449.jpg

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)

belief is one thing exploiting other's belief for profit is another entirely.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Well now you're passing judgement on Hinn for ripping people off. That's a different thing entirely.

Before you were suggesting that those who believed in him were worthy of disdain. They are victims here.

― Viva La Sam (thatgirl), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

see, new thread for the continuation of this discussion.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

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