Being woken up by bomb blasts - Dud or Dud?

I want to see 'Barcelona' again.

All those kids waving basque flags and scarves and singing Spanish sons of whores at the Bilbao match on Sunday, are they applauding this action? I hope not.

Extra dud thing: when I first heard it on the radio as I was getting up, it didn't even register; such is the level of my bad news fatigue or something.

Hope you and those you know are definitely ok alan.

The above assumes they are capable of rational thought, which obviously there is a lot of contrary evidence for.

I've just written an email to a Spanish colleague who's entire family live in Madrid. They're all fine but he says he's preparing in case he has to go to a funeral this weekend. Horrible.

I strongly disagree, rush hour on a main station? Plus the shear amount of scrutiny that terrorism is under at the moment, I fail to see how anybody could have thought this was only going to be a minor attack.

'Could the world’s most feared, faceless and fabulously inventive Islamist terrorist group really be wreaking revenge for Spain's controversial participation in the US-led, UK-backed militaristic coalition against terror?'

'Fabulously inventive' indeed! Like setting bombs took real talent.

???In what world do you live???

Simple is easy, but it's a horrible guide to life.

Occam's Razor is a decent guide to probabilities mind. Can you suggest a practical alternative to ETA and/or Al Qaeda here. Whoever committed it needs to be
a) Organised
b) have a reason
c) be able to get a large amount of explosives
d) and in Spain.

Okay, don't. Like I say, I dig a decent conspiracy theory, but unless its the return of Franco, I'm out of other decent options.

But hey, in the hands of politicians even a razor can become a blunt instrument.

Got out of Madrid no problem - we anticipated difficulty so went to the airport as soon as we could (difficult in itself - the hotel couldn't order a taxi as we were less than a mile from Atocha so we had to go out into the streets to try and find one). The airport was very, very relaxed - not even the basic security questions when checking in baggage (Did you pack this yourself, etc) - although there was a reasonably high police presence in it.

yes, what could it mean? at what point does "arabic civilization" overcome the rational mind? is al qaeda intoxicated by islam? how are we to understand the derangements of arabs? is it contagious? is it spreading? when they speak in arabic, do they make whole sentences or do they just string words together? if i understand "their" islam, will i catch it, too? how will i know if i've caught it? how will i know if i understand it? is that even possible? maybe the africans could help us understand. maybe the indonesians. they act crazy, too, on cnn or msnbc sometimes. less often on the bbc, though. what could that mean? does an arab think? how would i know if he did? could a turk help? i know some turks who speak wahhabi. but they're not wahhabis themselves, i don't think. maybe they've caught it too! if they understand al qaeda, and al qaeda can't be understood by me, could i understand them (the turks)?

can the brown mind truly be understood?

maybe you don't need to take it personally? Maybe it was your statement that was phrased in a way that could be mistaken for racism?

DAUGHTER MISSING:
My daughter is an exchange student in Seville who went to Madrid on Wednesday...NO ONE has heard from her since. American, 5'10 inches 145 pounds. Long brown (mid-back) hair, green eyes. Tattoo on lower back of star (approx 4" across) Carly is her name, she is traveling with another student, Laura. Please....any info is appreciated. I love you Carly and I am coming there tomorrow, XO Mom
Holly Taylor, Walnut Creek California USA

Re: earlier post. (link) DAUGHTER FOUND! She had taken wrong train and had to double back towards Prado....missed the bombings. I am so grateful to have her and so sorry for those who have lost the lights of their lives. With deep sadness, I mourn.
Holly Taylor, Walnut Creek, Calif USA

Or maybe it was Vahid going to great lengths in his sarcasm to link Al-Q and "brown people".

Why is it again that liberals swear by the "I can criticize Israel and not be anti-semitic" and yet when it comes to criticizing Muslim Extremists, that division b/n criticizing the policies/actions of some and racism vanishes into the night?

i suppose a case could be made, along the line of fanon's "wretched of the earth", that the reactions of al-qaeda are an expression of mental illness brought on by colonialism or by their own repressive culture. the thing is fanon (whose findings have since been somewhat discredited and toned down by psychoanalysts) also did a good job of pointing out how colonialism itself, or the reactions of the french to algerian terrorism, would have to be seen as an expression of a mental illness or a repression in that model.

finally, even if you were to buy into fanon's argument (or the similar arguments that get made on the right - "suicide bombing is just EVIL CRAZINESS") you would be making a real leap to try to argue that their culture, religion or beliefs completely obfuscate their reasoning (wrt the western mind). not least of which because not everybody thinks western enlightment = the seat of rationality.

when it comes to criticizing Muslim Extremists, that division b/n criticizing the policies/actions of some and racism vanishes into the night

it could be the nature/phrasing/logic of the criticism hmmm?

in any case does anybody have the right to criticize "their understanding of islam"?

should i criticize the settlers' embrace of orthodox judaism? CERTAINLY NOT. and i have no desire to! nor do i want to psychoanalyze settlers, or the theology of orthodox judaism, or try to explain their culture in any terms relating to illness or unhealthiness.

on the other hand, i think anybody would be perfectly justified in pointing out that the settlements - the physical buildings and fences and roads - are carving up palestinian territory. criticize that. criticize bombings. what's specious = pop psychoanalysis.

(and it's not just on this thread - it runs through the whole discussion of terrorism since the term was coined, and back a lot longer if you want to look at the tension between homicide and homicidal mania)

that's where the strawman comes from. that and "does al qaeda really have a political vision" and the bit about "their interpretation of islam trumping political calculation" (misquoted but not miscontextualized, sorry)

I didn't see anyone claiming this bombing was because Al-Q had gone postal. I think their "political vision" is simply islamic extremism. And seeing as how their interpretation of Islam is all about repression and intolerance, it allows them to justify killing anyone they wish. This "it's because we went into Iraq in 1991/2003" or "because of Israel" or "because of sanctions" is where people go wrong. Al-Q and the like, leech onto these causes in order to kill as many Americans/Jews/Hindus/Russians/British/Spainards as possible.

so where does the desire to kill non al qaeda come from in the first place?

This is badly put. It sounds as if Al Qaeda are primarily murderers who attach a politics to what they desire in order to justify it. One of the problems with this way of describing Al Qaeda is that it fails to see Islamic terrorism as coming out of a broader and fully humane set of complaints against the west, modernity, capitalism, imperialism and so forth. This description severs the 'extremists' off from the culture and history of the popular feelings from which Al Qaeda recruit and from which Al Qaeda draw support. If you don't understand that, then you don't understand the current situation at all. And in this sense, Vahid is quite right in his analysis of the language being used here.

What Vahid leaves out of his analysis of the language, however, is that it is firmly rooted in western culture. The nature/culture divide is so pervasively available that it is used to colour a whole range of distinctions, including racist ones, but also gender, class, culinary, musical and gardening ones. In this sense, it is not quite fair to point the finger at individuals who casually use the nature/culture opposition to describe differences. The opposition has all sorts of racist (and sexist etc) connotations and the culture needs to become more aware of these connotations, but it is also, in many circumstances, shorthand. Maybe it is not very sophisticated tool for thinking but that doesn't make it malicious.

that said, i know they want the western powers out of arabia (i would say "saudi arabia" but they opposed the saudis too) and other things; but the bombing in madrid, say, if it's indeed their work, seems to be connected to such things in a remarkably loose way

so is the mere presence of westerners in that region the bottom line re what bothers these people?

When the IRA blew up senior politicians, they didn't expect the British government to issue an immediate order to get the troops out of Northern Ireland. They wanted the presence of British troops in Northern Ireland to be contested, protested and made more difficult. And Al Qaeda, likewise, don't engage in terrorist activities in order to gain immediate, positive results. I think you underestimate terrorism if you think that it has no longer term aims or that its activities are stupid if they don't win them short-term advantages.