Taking sides: Paris or London?

i want to go to Paris and do touristy stuff, but may have to wait until May/June

"When one is tired of London, he should go to Paris for a bit."

Taking Sides: London Hilton vs Paris Hilton

Taking sides: London Trocadero vs Paris Trocadero

Paris has two big advantages over London:

1. Being able to walk more or less everywhere if you really need to
2. Proper late drinking culture
3. An underground system that works

A good friend of mine moved to Paris a couple of years ago and now refuses to come back to London. But London is still... London - there's too much I'd miss about it to want to leave.

I'm sure Paris is better for tourists, though.

At least you can drink the water in London.

I am going to Paris for Easter! Tell me stuff to do!

Hmm, let's see.

When I lived in Paris I had my drink spiked, extremely strong chemicals pumped into my flat without warning on a Saturday morning, was groped several times on the train to and from work and people got sniffy when I turned up to a party with a crate of beer rather than a bottle of wine. However, I had a fresh, warm croissant for breakfast every day, lots of very good cheese, a totally great restaurant round the corner from my flat and most importantly, I lived opposite a fire station which meant that warm weekend afternoons were spent sitting on my balcony ogling les muscles des pompiers. Cor.

In London nobody sniffs if I bring beer to the party, I was never groped on any form of public transport, had a drink spiked or had noxious gas pumped into my flat. Plus I could get excellent bread (turkish and greek) whenever I wanted it. Also, the kebabs in London are better. Also, I can buy cheese from all over the world, not just France. Also I can buy bacon, pappy white bread and HP sauce whenever I want. Also I have lots of friends in London.

But in Glasgow I can get a cab home in the middle of the night for a fiver.

That's three big advantages, sorry.

London has the additional advantage of far more cultural diversity than Paris from what I can see.

The pubs closing at 11 is the thing that astounds me when I go to London. Why do people put up with it?

Paris is great to visit, quite stressful to live in. I think after Tokyo it's got one of the highest population densities in the world. And it feels like it too when you live here. You have to get out every couple of months. Thankfully, that's very easy to do.

I don't agree on the cultural diversity front, Matt DC - go to Barbès, the 13th arrondissement, the Sri-Lankan enclave around rue Cail, the Turkish enclave around rue des Petites Ecuries, etc., etc.

Paris is certainly more beautiful. I can imagine it might be stressful as a place to live, but it's just so...beautiful.

One thing that enraged me about Paris is the fact that people would barge onto the Metro trains en-masse as soon as the doors opened rather than, like, wait for people to get off the train first.

I minor annoyance over a short stay, but I could imagine it really fucking me off if I actually lived there.

I found that Matt, and took great delight in sticking my elbows off and barging off the metro train, taking a number of rude french persons with me. Then the next time I'd try and beat that number, you know, make a game of it.

mind you, I have to do that on our tube sometimes too

Hey, at least in neither London nor Paris do you get shoved onto the tube by a guard with a cattle prod. Don't they have special cramming employees in Hong Kong? Ken to thread.

Tokyo is the home of glove-wearing cattle-prodding Michael Jackson look-a-likes..

But dude, Paris is very pretty. I enjoy the skankiness of London, though, and yeah, there is a more visibly diverse population, rather than people being shoved off to enormoghettoes on the edge of the city.

xpost. Blimey, Tokyo must be a pressure fetishist's dream eh?

But "prettiness" is some of the problem of Paris. It sometimes feels like it's been designed to be looked at, not lived in. Like the Paris parks with their trees all in a straight line and gravel on the ground - nice to look at but you can't really do anything with them.

(Jonathan Z. - Amateurist and I have vague plans for an inaugural ILx 'Voulez vouz un bier?' on April 9. If you fancy meeting up, drop us a line at the address below.)

Haha Jonathan, Baron Haussmann to thread. Yes indeed, the Etoile is a champion example of this kind of vista town planning.

It's interesting to note that Christopher Wren wanted to completely rebuild the City of London along rational lines after it had been conveniently razed by the Great Fire, but the people who lived there and owned the land were having none of it and simply carried on using the paths of the old roads etc.

une bière

Why thank you.

(thanks Jerry, I'll be in touch)

The more user-friendly parts of Paris are the bits Haussmann didn't touch - the Marais etc. (I do actually like Paris but occasionally you do feel like you're living in some sort of Cartesian geometric nightmare).

I think Paris is wonderful but I lack certain skills that would make living there worth it. Jonathan's spot-on about the Marais etc and I really like it by the canal and in Republique/Menilmontant. I'm not so into Montparnasse and the 6th and 7th, too Kensingtonesque for me. My closest friends there live in the 9th near a great bar, le Fourmi on rue des Martyrs (street near Pigalle with *LOTS* of drag queen piano bars leading up to Montmartre). This bar would be a good place for y'all to meet and is not intimidating in the least (the people behind the bar are nice, and my French is crap) but then I have a problem getting out of (v. intimidating) Collette in under two hours because I get talking to fashion people, which is more fun to do in France than anywhere else.

However my top recommendation is to go down to Choisy, find a Vietnamese restaurant and gorge self on a properly prepared plate of NEMS with holy basil, mint, lettuce, sprouts and two kinds of dipping sauce. Any place will do, just look for satisfied Vietnamese people eating. Paris also has the traiteur asiatique phenomenon so you're never too far away from pork, duck or prawn spring/'summer'/cold rolls of rice paper, noodles and mint and coriander. That's what I live on if I have to go over there for work and don't get time for proper dinners. Also nearer Place d'Italie (on it) is a hangar-sized Sephora and the art galleries like Perrotin etc.

Food is cheaper there and seems more bountiful somehow; I love the 'croissant corral' in supermarkets and I understand friends who use boulanger A for one kind of bread, patissier B for croissants. I have never had my arse pinched or my drink spiked in Paris. Wolf-whistling is just kind of a normal thing to deal with in Barbes but I follow the example of French women and tell them to fuck off too.

(also boo Ed and I have tix for Paris first w/e in April so we'll just miss people)

I'm a vegetarian so it's easier for me to eat in London than Paris, so, London.

she's crafty

Oi, we're SHARING (it's fair to say that G&F are my best French friends; G is possibly Nick's best friend full stop). I did leave you some stuff to explain.

Memo to vegetarians: French people don't eat just any old shite and between all the arab/lebanese/african food and the excellent supermarkets, markets and bakeries you might well never feel a lack of choice. AKM, even if you are vegan you'd be fine.

Also Liz - the ring of estates full of brown folks surrounding a 'white' centre is a phenomenon one could transpose onto London very easily. Although Paris at its centre is just as mixed as London, too.

Paris.

I had great ramen at Higuma on the rue Sainte Anne (2nd arrondissement) last night. Only 8 or 9 euros. The whole road is full of noodle bars, full of Japanese customers too which must be a good sign.