Los Angeles/San Diego touristing advice?

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I am going to be in LA and also the San Diego area next weekend. Are there any special events going on then? Anything especially cool or noteworthy otherwise that would be worth making a trip to see? I'll have a rental car, so my options are pretty open, but I don't really know what I want to do while I'm there. Ideas, anyone?

― Chris F. (servoret), Sunday, 14 March 2004 08:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I recommend going to downtown, taking Cesar Chavez until it turns into Sunset and then taking that to PCH and driving out to Malibu. stop at Moonshadows or some other coastal joint for a drink as the sun sets.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Sunday, 14 March 2004 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

In addition to your Rough Guide, try to read 'City of Quartz' before getting here. I also recommend the Huntington Gardens (there's exquisite suburbanity on the way). Also, watch an episode or two of Curb Your Enthusiasm to put you in the right frame of mind. I'm sure others will have more specific ideas, but the Sunset drive is what L.A. is all about.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Sunday, 14 March 2004 11:17 (twenty-two years ago)

The Good Mr. Spencer is a wise man. If you are heading down to San Diego -- *scratches chin* -- well, it depends what you want to see. Tourist central is Balboa Park with the Zoo and the various museums, but it's really a beautiful place and it's not quite the hordes of summer yet. Point Loma is lovely as well, though I can't recall what the current policy on letting people out there is (it's Navy base land). Been a while since I've lived in the city, though, so others will have more up-to-date takes.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Mission Beach maybe? I can't really remember all the places my dad has taken me to when I go there to visit.

How about the Boardwalk? I like walking down there. You can rent a bike or roller blads somewhere near there can't you?

I like San Diego. It's nice down there. How about Hillcrest? I've always gone there. If you can, get Phil's BBQ. It might be crowded. Try going in the afternoon istead of at night. It's good. They've tried to kick them out because of all the noise the people waiting in line make at night and the smoke that comes out of the building. See if he's still there. For some reason, he's been able to expand the place maybe three times the last time I can remember.

― Aja (aja), Sunday, 14 March 2004 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Mulholland Drive? Or, go on a mission to see houses of significance:

F. L. Wright in the Hollywood Hills,
Sharon Tate Murder house,
Things like that. Theme driving.
Lots to see in L.A., lots to miss. Easy to spend too much time in route between one or the other.

― Skottie, Sunday, 14 March 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks for the responses! I've also had friends who've already gone tell me that PCH is very much worth driving on, so I'll probably be doing that; there's some valley near LA that's supposed to be nice driving in also, so I'll be looking to see where that is exactly before I go. Apparently San Diego is just a nice place to be in general, so aside from the Balboa Park thing I think I'll just play it by ear while I'm there.

― Chris F. (servoret), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

if your here on saturday go to the whistlestop for beer and dancing. eat mexican or sushi!

― twelve, Wednesday, 17 March 2004 04:41 (twenty-two years ago)

La Jolla is beautiful. There's also the lovely Spreckels Organ in S.D., the largest outdoor organ in the U.S.:

http://www.serve.com/sosorgan/

― m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 04:44 (twenty-two years ago)

TITO'S TACOS!!!!! - Washingon and Sepulveda, Culver City

― JaXoN (JasonD), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 05:31 (twenty-two years ago)

NO DON'T DO IT | YOU WILL SPEND THE WHOLE WEEKEND WAITING AT TITO'S FOR A MICROWAVED TACO | DON'T DO IT

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 06:40 (twenty-two years ago)

(I mean, if you're going to come to Culver City, go see the Museum of Jurassic Technology instead)

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 06:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Dean is a wise, wise man. We took Gareth there last year and he didn't know what to think of it.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 06:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, yes N(a)ed. ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 07:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Oi, I knew about this place since before you were born! (You are eight, right?)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 07:03 (twenty-two years ago)

You were a little more than eight when I was born.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 07:13 (twenty-two years ago)

TITO'S TACOS!!!!!

― JaXoN (JasonD), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 07:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, he has a point.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 07:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Im not the biggest fan of San Diego, but Coronado is pretty fun to spend an afternoon. Its a little island right off of san diego. has nice beaches, orange ave, etc.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Museum of Jurassic Technology? Why didn't anyone tell me about this?

Also, you must have a Tommy's chili-cheeseburger from the Tommy's on Beverly/Rampart. It's like, the law, or something.

― luna (luna.c), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Museum of Jurassic Technology? Why didn't anyone tell me about this?

Nobody reads what I post :(

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I had a problem after going to the Tommy's in Beverly Center once.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Im not the biggest fan of San Diego, but Coronado is pretty fun to spend an afternoon. Its a little island right off of san diego. has nice beaches, orange ave, etc.

Oh, I can tell you all about Coronado (sez the guy who spent about ten years of his life there on and off while growing up).

Nobody reads what I post :(

I have seen and believed!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually just hadn't read this thread before.

― luna (luna.c), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Also recommended is the Center For Land Use Interpretation which is right next door to the Museum Of Jurassic Technology. The CLUI has one of the best specialized bookstores in the city.

And there's a great Brazilian restaurant just down Venice Bl.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

All true.

I had a problem after going to the Tommy's in Beverly Center once.

Was it ... a dirty problem?

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Thirding and Fourthing the drive up Pacific Coast Highway. Basically take PCH up past Malibu and Zuma and treat yourself to fish and chips and a beer at Neptune's Net just across the Ventura County line. (you're also right near the beach used in the final scene of Planet Of The Apes

There's a couple of cool things currently at the local art museums too. LACMA has a big Diane Arbus retrospective going on and the Norton Simon in Pasadena is always worth seeing.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Basically just grab a copy of the LA Weekly as soon as you hit town and check out the calendar listings, there's always something interesting going on.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Elvis = OTMFM.

― luna (luna.c), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I'm going to have some dim sum and check out the Arbus this weekend.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

the minimalism show that just opened at moca is supposed to be very worthwhile. frank gehry's new disney hall is across the street and it looks nice in the sunshine. luomo is tomorrow night, and so is rephlex/soundmurderer. and i love spencer's idea of taking sunset from downtown to the beach and turning right up through malibu.

― dan (dan), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Have y'all ever been to Moonshadows? I'm curious, but not enough to go on my own.

― luna (luna.c), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Not I.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

it's probably fine for drinks. my one trip to gladstone's cured me of any desire to actually eat at any ocean view restaurant in malibu.

― dan (dan), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Because Gladstone's sucks ass. The Chart House, as I recall, is really good, though.

― luna (luna.c), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Also if you're in downtown LA, drinks at the revolving restaurant at the top of the Bonaventure Hotel are a must.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Duke's is the best of the malibu seaside places... but if you don't care about the food, Nobu (crosscreek/pch) is pretty much as good as it gets in LA.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Elvis T. OTM about the Bonaventure bar - just make sure you don't end up in the restaurant which is WAY overpriced - and the lobby of the Bonaventure is an amazing illustration of so many architecture ideas.

I really like Moonshadows, although they've started to have a DJ on some afternoons which can be hit or miss. Also it's started to attract some euro-trashy types as opposed to the older tacky-money types that I enjoyed watching. But no matter who's there, it's still an amazing place to sit and watch the sun set over the water while having a Chardonnay and eating hor d'oeuvres. Another semi-cheesy place to have a sunset drink is at Casa Del Mar in Santa Monica. The bar/lounge is really an amazing room to spend an hour or two in.

Dean, I'm totally going to be at Luomo, you going?

And My Tommyburger problem seems to have been isolated, but I'm a bit reluctant to go to any of them except the original.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you meant to ask Dan about Luomo, but no, I won't be going. I haven't gotten to that CD yet ... I'm still working my way through the noise.

You totally have to elaborate on the tommyproblem though. You can't tease us like that.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i wrote:
but if you don't care about the food

should read:

"but if you don't care about the view"

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

whoops! DAN! Are you going to the Luomo show?

and I had a mild case of food poisoning after eating at Tommy's once. I think I had the Chicken sandwich (my first mistake was avoiding the obvious thing to order).

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

the malibu inn is pleasant. when i went there wasn't a 'scene' or anything like that. they serve bar food, drinks are pretty much regular price, and its practically right on the freakin beach.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

yr a freakin beach bill

― dean! (deangulberry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

point conceded.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

get back to work.

― dean! (deangulberry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Does San Diego still have the Museum Of Death? Or did it die?

― gothnut bitchus (donut), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you going to the Luomo show?

When is this again?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Friday at an interesting place called Melrose Lightspace.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Are there any good radio stations to listen to in either city, or between cities, for that matter?

― Chris F. (servoret), Friday, 19 March 2004 03:21 (twenty-two years ago)

During the (week)day on the West side of LA, KXLU 88.9 is often great. You can also listen at any time to Indie 103.1 and you'll probably hear something you like, but you'll feel dirty afterwards.

― dean! (deangulberry), Friday, 19 March 2004 06:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 54 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

There are a bunch of other hotels. The Standard might be cheaper. There's even the occasional deal at Chateau Marmont. You might also call. What are the dates you want?

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 7 May 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

We're going to be out just for two nights from Friday 5th of June. It is the weekend after my birthday!

That better not be the highlight of your trip, Adam;>

:) Errrr, I should also mention we spent a great deal to get a pair of Prince tickets for the Staples Center show this weekend, so it wouldn't be the highlight!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 May 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, I meant Friday 4th. Chateau Marmont is booked out. Curse you Los Angeles, you foul and evil (and oh so alluring) temptress. Don't even get me started on the restaurant rez thing again! ;)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 May 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay---

Standard vs. Argyle FITE!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 May 2004 17:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Argyle definitely has better rooms. There's a TV commercial for cellphones that shows a businessman going through the annoyances of business travel before talking to his daughter on the phone as a relief. They hilarously use a room at the Standard to illustrate the cold awfulness of hotel rooms!!!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 7 May 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

However, it's a blast to have drinks at the standard and cruise the halls for parties. However, you can still have a room at the Argyle and walk the block over to the Standard. Also, put me on the list, thx.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 7 May 2004 17:18 (twenty-one years ago)

:) Sure!

Haha, I really don't know what it is about making arrangements for trips to LA that brings out the Patrick Bateman in me. I'm really a very quiet, well-adjusted person! Just ask Ned!

Standard works out at about $10 a night cheaper but I just started a new, well-paid job, and I have lots of overtime coming up and it's my birthday...*pauses to think of more excuses, clicks "submit" on the Argyle site, immediately feels crushingly guilty*

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 May 2004 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

thanks for your help!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 May 2004 17:24 (twenty-one years ago)

detouring back to the San Diego theme:

ferry and water taxi info: http://www.sdro.com/sdhe/tours.htm

restaurants - in the more upscale range ($15-20), I'd recommend Chilangos (University near 3rd, in the aforementioned Hillcrest neighborhood) or if you wanted to go the Spanish tapas route, Picasso (around the corner on 4th) is also very good.

And I've heard Hamburger Mary's has just opened up a Mex place called Margarita Mary's somewhere in Hillcrest. No idea what the food will be like, but I imagine the atmosphere will be a pansexual party. With tacos!

― chëshy f cät, Friday, 7 May 2004 17:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Adam, I hope you like it. The rooms aren't sleek as I recall, but very O.G. deco and the location can't be beat. Parking could be a problem since Sunset hotels tend to gouge on that sort of thing.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 7 May 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, I feared the parking thing. Will check into it, tx.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 7 May 2004 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Pokez is always a mandatory stop for me whenever i do go down to San Diego... being a vegetarian espeically. Two words : VEGAN CHIMICHANGA!

And the Hillcrest area, around 5th and university, is indeed the most walkable, pleasant area in San Diego... Avoid the Horton plaza unless you want to drown in god fearing mall rats.

Also Lyra, if you can get a ride out there, I highly recommend going to La Jolla, just for the waterfront... the retail area there is about as snooty as you can get (Imagine Kirkland, WA's downtown basically)

It looks like we'll be done in SoCal the same weekend! I'll be in L.A. on the 14th and 15th this month..

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 7 May 2004 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah, pokez should still be on 10th and E street in downtown

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 7 May 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

We'll be down in SoCal, even

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 7 May 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Many thanks for the ferry link. :-)

PNW invades SoCal!

I'm not looking to venture too far on this trip, but if this is fun, I may go again later in the summer for longer than 3 days. Just bought my sunscreen today- I'm remembering Australia & the sunburn I got there... am afraid I'm going to be beet red by Thursday. I'm too acclimated to the NW weak sun, I think.

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 8 May 2004 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

I would post to the other thread, but it's gotten rather long.

Los Angeles, then. Is it still there?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

the Huntington Gardens are pretty huge, right? how do older people get around?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

Still here.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 15:48 (twenty years ago)

On a Saturday, I often make it from Santa Monica to Oxnard in 28 minutes.

― Dr. Glen Y. Abreu (dr g), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

Still around indeed. We should do another FAP here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 16:10 (twenty years ago)

I offer my apartment prior to the 10th, b/c that's when I'm moving to Los Feliz.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

Oh really? Hmmm...got your deposit back yet?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

I remember the desert plants. I used to be very fond of Gainsborough's "Blue Boy." I missed the Isherwood exhibition last year. I think the only way to get around is by walking.

― youn, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 19:20 (twenty years ago)

the Huntington Gardens are pretty huge, right? how do older people get around?

It would definitely be difficult for older people to get around without some kind of wheelchair or motorized thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they have something like that you could borrow or rent though. You should call and find out.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 2 August 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

three months pass...

[spam deleted]

― Quintana, Wednesday, 30 November 2005 08:00 (twenty years ago)

Well, then.... Andrew?

― dali madison's nut (donut), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 09:02 (twenty years ago)

four months pass...

Can anyone recommend a golf course in the San Diego area?

― def zep (calstars), Monday, 10 April 2006 23:27 (nineteen years ago)

haha the san diego area IS a golf course

― jodias of sunhillow (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 10 April 2006 23:31 (nineteen years ago)

I'm reading John Fante's "Ask the Dust" and really pining for Los Angeles right about now. It there still fog, or did that go out in the 30s?

― Mary (Mary), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:26 (nineteen years ago)

there is fog, but it's seasonal, i understand, and it helps to be in the right nabes.

i really gotta read that book. i think there's a movie version coming out?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:38 (nineteen years ago)

we're approaching the peak fog season - May Grey and June Gloom - but apparently it can arrive anywhere from March to August

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:42 (nineteen years ago)

La Costa? Something in Torrey Pines?

― i'm from hollywood, Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:43 (nineteen years ago)

I think that there maybe used to be more fog, though

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 11 April 2006 22:44 (nineteen years ago)

for best golf value try golfing at cottonwood or steele canyon in rancho san diego or riverwalk in mission valley or go up to temecula or pauma valley. but first, ask yourself, "why must i always be golfing?" ask yourself this question every day.

― ath (ath), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 01:58 (nineteen years ago)

There's a movie coming out, but that horrible what's her name is in it, so stick with the book.

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 03:22 (nineteen years ago)

cinematography by caleb deschanel! it also features one "william mapother," no relation i'm sure to the producer.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 03:38 (nineteen years ago)

There's a movie coming out, but that horrible what's her name is in it, so stick with the book.

On the other hand Robert Towne wrote and directed it, so I have mixed feelings...

― The Equator Lounge (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 22:09 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

I'm spending next week on the UCLA campus. Any particular suggestions?

― toby, Thursday, 20 March 2008 04:34 (eighteen years ago)

I'm spending next week on the UCLA campus. Any particular suggestions?

Some Westwood suggestions...

Stan's Doughnuts: http://www.stansdoughnuts.com/
Diddy Riese Cookies: http://losangeles.citysearch.com/profile/44293/
Novel Cafe: http://www.yelp.com/biz/novel-cafe-westwood (good college student grub. great chicken tortilla soup!)
Thank You Mart: http://www.thankyoumart.com/ (best vintage store in town)
Sunin: http://www.sunnin.com/ (oustanding Lebanese food)
Sak's Teryaki: http://www.yelp.com/biz/saks-teriyaki-los-angeles (inexpensive rice/noodle bowls. Skip Noodle Planet, and go here instead)
Roll Inn: http://www.yelp.com/biz/roll-inn-los-angeles (ridiculously cheap & yummy sandwiches)
The Mystery Bookstore: http://www.mystery-bookstore.com (great bookstore specializing in mystery/detective stuff)
The bookstore at the Hammer Museum is pretty good for obscure art books: http://www.hammer.ucla.edu/

― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 20 March 2008 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

If you've got time for public transport and/or are renting a car then there's the Museum Of Jurassic Technology on Venice Bl.

― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 20 March 2008 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

Fap?

― felicity, Thursday, 20 March 2008 19:44 (eighteen years ago)

Also downtown sample sale run next Friday guys? Cash only.

― felicity, Thursday, 20 March 2008 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

Wow, thanks! That looks like a very helpful list.

― toby, Friday, 21 March 2008 00:05 (seventeen years ago)

Go to THE GETTY and see the CALIFORNIA VIDEO show, which I interned on!

― admrl, Friday, 21 March 2008 14:52 (seventeen years ago)

I am going to the Getty next Friday, I will check that out!

― toby, Friday, 21 March 2008 17:14 (seventeen years ago)

five years pass...

Going to LA for a couple days this week and staying with some friends in Silverlake. We're going to check out the Turrell and Varda exhibits at LACMA and maybe the Museum of Jurassic Technology. Any other suggestions? We're particularly wary of spending our stay stuck in traffic so tips on fun restaurants/bars/thrift stores not too far from our home base would be appreciated.

― Fetchboy, Monday, 16 December 2013 07:01 (twelve years ago)

the turrell is really cool -- check out the calder and the hockney while you're at lacma. also, i haven't seen it yet, but there's a tom of finland/bob mizer retrospective at the pacific design center (not too hard to get to from silver lake).

― comics on fire (get bent), Monday, 16 December 2013 07:28 (twelve years ago)

Clifton's Cafeteria is still closed in Downtown L.A., but maybe head down there for a French Dip at Phillipe's (http://www.philippes.com/) then walk over to Olvera Street and check out the Angels Flight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_Flight). Shouldn't hit traffic heading in that direction from where you'll be and it's a pretty different L.A. afternoon!

― Walter Galt, Monday, 16 December 2013 07:39 (twelve years ago)

when you're there, go to grand central market and get a pupusa!

http://www.yelp.com/biz/saritas-pupuseria-los-angeles

― comics on fire (get bent), Monday, 16 December 2013 07:42 (twelve years ago)

Pescatarian so can't do the french dip, but Angels Flight and pupusas sounds like a great detour!!
Thanks for the tips!

― Fetchboy, Monday, 16 December 2013 17:07 (twelve years ago)

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