Are AC Milan the best team in Europe?

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An opinion formed over the period of one month, culminating in last night's 3-1 win over Juventus. They looked creative, fit and full of belief. And Juventus are no mugs.

In the Champions League when Sparta Prague equalised, they didn't panic, just regrouped and passed their way back in front.

And Seedorf is reborn.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

could be first club to retain European Cup since.....?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

actually if they did it would be sort of fitting given how likely it is that France will also retain their European Championship trophy. it's a season of consistency folks, unless you're a Spurs fan.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

or West Ham...

Inzaghi did miss a sitter of Rosenthalesque proportions, mind.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

He was probably offside anyway...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

As was one of their goals. Or was that the Spanish game? I combined football with wine last night and my brain packed up around 9.30pm

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

could be first club to retain European Cup since.....?

Themselves? Back in the Baresi/Costacurta/Maldini/3 Dutchmen days?

― Nick H (Nick H), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

no. its arsenal.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Milan will beat Arsenal quite easily. Arsenal are still not that great at the back, whereas Milan are very very solid indeed.

Kaka is tremendous too.

― chris (chris), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Arsenal are going to lose to Real in the semis so its irrelevant really.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Arsenal's defence just isn't up to much no, the Italians do it better.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Kaka lived up to his name rather than his reputation last night. Just shows what a cracking side they are, even when all cylinders aren't firing.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I think with Arsenal the problem is that they have some quite good wide midfield players playing at full back.

― chris (chris), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Madrid could only beat Milan with a big big stroke of thier customary luck. The huge difference between their teams is in their depth, Milan have at least two world class players for each position, Madrid barely have one!

― Gatinha (rwillmsen), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Has Maldini retired yet? I must confess to a bit of a soft spot for him.

― leigh (leigh), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

No, still going strong. Played really well last night.

To confirm, Milan were the last team to retain the European Cup in 1990, beating Benfica 1-0.

The Team
G.Galli, Tassotti, Costacurta, Baresi, Maldini,
Colombo (F.Galli 89),Rijkaard, Ancelotti (Massaro 72),
Evani, Gullit, Van Basten

Goal from Rijkaard.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:43 (twenty-two years ago)

nice to see a wily detective in a dirty mac sticking it out right til the dying minutes

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

The grey ponytail got his 200th goal yesterday too.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I've heard tell that Juve are the worst side they've had for years; is that part of it?

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

''Arsenal are going to lose to Real in the semis so its irrelevant really.''

you wish they are going to lose. doesn't mean they will.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes it does. I have snipers on the roof of Thierry Henry's house as we speak.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Arsenal's points per game average this season is not as good as AC Milan's.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Juventus have had worst sides than this. Champions League exit hangover summed up their attitude last night. And Di Vaio ain't exactly a goal tart.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

English teams have a bad record in Europe, it's hard to see even Arsenal overturning this, the defences just aren't as good.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Milan vs Arsenal would make a great final. Maybe a match too far for Real Madrid, squad for squad.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

English teams have a bad record in Europe, it's hard to see even Arsenal overturning this, the defences just aren't as good.

have Spain or Germany overtaken England as second most successful nation in European club competitions then? (they probably have but this would only have been very recently if so)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i think Madrid's defense can be exploited - tho if Milan hadn't done what they did against Sparta Prague then I would've been highlighting their reticence up front too. Arsenal CAN beat them both but I'm pretty sure they won't.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

have Spain or Germany overtaken England as second most successful nation in European club competitions then? (they probably have but this would only have been very recently if so)

Do you mean over all history or on recent form?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I was wondering if England's record was best overall, I had a feeling it was but I was obviously talking about recent years.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Google will reveal all. But from the last six seasons...

1998 - CL: Real Madrid; UEFA: Inter Milan: CWC: Chelsea
1999 - CL: Man Utd; UEFA: Parma; CWC: Lazio
2000 - CL: Real Madrid; UEFA: Galatasaray
2001 - CL: Bayern Munich; UEFA: Liverpool
2002 - CL: Real Madrid; UEFA: Feyenoord
2003 - CL: AC Milan; UEFA: Porto

Italy (4), Spain and England (3) - not including the Super Cup but ratio would probably remain the same

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

In terms of wins it looks like Real Madrid are faraway the most successful team in Europe in recent times - if not the best team - Milan were conspicuous by their absence in the final stages of European club competitions between 1995/6 and 2001/2

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

UEFA etc are nothing trophies!

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Will you be saying that when Stevie Gerrard is holding it aloft in the summer?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 15 March 2004 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

but in Liverpool's and Porto's case they produce something finals - infinteiyl better than their Champions League final counterparts of same years

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah I will, Houllier needs to go, doesn't matter what we win or lose.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 March 2004 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Owen to Arsenal!

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

i think i want that to happen

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

In the last ten years:

Champions League Winners / Runners'Up:
Italy 3 / 4
Spain 3 / 3
Germany 2 / 2
Holland 1 / 1
England 1 / 0

Uefa + Cup-Winners
Italy 5 / 4
England 3 / 2
Spain 2 / 2
Germany 2 / 2
France 1 / 3
Holland 1 / 0
Portugal 1 / 0
Turkey 1 / 0
Austria 0 / 2
Henrik Larsson 0 / 1

Total Finals since 2003
Italy 8 / 8
Spain 5 / 5
Germany 4 / 4
England 4 / 2

Yeah.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Monday, 15 March 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

How is Henrik Larsson a country, eh?

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 15 March 2004 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Was Donadoni not at Milan in 1990? He was a bit overshadowed by the 6 I mentioned. Great player.

― Nick H (Nick H), Monday, 15 March 2004 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Greatest European Cup final you've seen?

For me, Milan vs Barcelona, 1994.

― Ally C (Ally C), Monday, 15 March 2004 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Dortmund v Juve was a goodun i seem to recall

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Real v Leverkusen in Glasgow a couple of years back. What seemed like hours of injury time, a fantastic goal by Zidane and all the pubs in Glasgow full to bursting.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 15 March 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

haha who is still left in the european? could the uefa be better this year? O I'm biased.

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 15 March 2004 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

UEFA must have been absolutely creaming themselves when the last rounds were completed - there were no clubs whatsoever from the former Eastern Bloc (nor Scandinavia, fwiw), just a couple of pesky Benelux and Turkish clubs (and Celtic - who to UEFA probably financially come under a general UKTV banner anyway, sorry Ailsa) left among the Big Five TV nations.

I think this has to be some sort of record - not even a Dynamo, a Sparta or a Slavia left and we're only just into March.

― darren (darren), Monday, 15 March 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I've no idea if Celtic are perceived as Scottish or British abroad, but yeah, it's the UEFA Cup of TV dreams. After Seville, I think they are will be seen as a cash cow for the country that gets the benefit of their visit for the latter stages, regardless of the fact that BBC Scotland will pay bugger all money and I doubt the games will get shown UK wide.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 15 March 2004 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

the French clubs seem to be resurging

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 15 March 2004 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I've not watched too much Serie A this season, but I've been more impressed with Roma in the couple of recent games I saw (stuffing Juve and Inter) than with Milan, oddly. Still, I think Milan will make the final this year, probably against Real, who will need a few of their front five megastars to be on top form for them to win - could be a highly entertaining final, given that Real have to attack creatively to balance their mediocre defence.

Best final I ever saw was probably the first football match I remember watching: Man U 4 Benfica 1 in 1968! Obviously there is loads of nostalgia in this judgement. More recently, I really like the Milan-Barcelona one.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Lpool-'gladbach in '77 was exciting as was Barce-Dusseldorf in the ECWC in '79 (being allowed to stay up to watch extra time; I wanted the Germans to win cos Barce had put out plucky Ipswich in the quarter on away goals, but Hans Krankl ruined that).

I don't remember most of the finals post-Heysel.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Red star Belgrade vs Marseille 1992 a beautiful game

let's not talk about Heysel eh?

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 114 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

England 41/5

WTF? 20-1 would be mean.

(If only we had a defense, a goalie and some strikers . . . .)

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Thursday, 25 March 2004 15:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Odds are always lower in your own country though. God knows why, you should never bet on your own team, only against.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 25 March 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Czechs are still seen as dark horses despite having been one of the most consistent teams in the last few years - shame they always fuck up in the World Cup qualifiers really. After England they'll be the team I want to win the most, tho I am basically happy with anyone winning it except Germany.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 25 March 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

June 19th = football party at ours methinks

Portugal have to be worth a punt at those odds I think.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 25 March 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Julio, I have to publically apologise to you, you're right, I really should learn to read threads, I mean, if I'd read this one properly I'd have ripped the pi$$ out of this:

didn't watch last night's match but you know, its chelsea, its not like Arsenal need to play at their best over the two legs so whatever really

― chris (chris), Thursday, 25 March 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

''pi$$''

didn't know you started liking r&B and hip-hop, never too late to get better taste in music so well done.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

no, I try not to post properly spelled obscenities on a work computer is all.

Ha ha and I've liked dance music for years.

you're better than that

― chris (chris), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Czechs were 13/1 with Will Hill too. Won't England be shorter odds because you'll idiots wasting their money with patriotic bets?

Holland might be worth a punt - time for the '95 Ajax generation to come good at international level (yes I know they were ace 4 years ago but they didn't win did they?).

― Nick H (Nick H), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:24 (twenty-one years ago)

One of the more intriguing fites this one :)

(xpost)

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Ace = missing penalties for fun = not very ace really

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Some of those Dutch cats are beginning to really purr at the moment, Davids at Barca, Seedorf at Milan and Van Der Vart at Ajax. Even Zenden is playing rather well at the moment. They'll still get a squabble started come the tournament and muck themselves up no doubt.

― Jonnie, Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Steve - I don't want to know who is the best team in the world. I just want footballer to be the winner.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

At the end of the day, football's always the winner. Especially in Milton Keynes.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 25 March 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

24 points from safety? I don't think so.

(also, you might want to remember who you're taunting when Spurs go tits up and need to call in Supp0rters D1rect to sort them out)

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 25 March 2004 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Given the track record for home teams in these tournaments, Portugal look a decent bet at those odds, and as I thought, the odds against the Czech Republic are pretty stupid. I can't say I'd put any money on England or Spain at those odds.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 25 March 2004 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, never put any money on England or Spain.

― Ally C (Ally C), Thursday, 25 March 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

the host nation hasn't won the European Championship since...?

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 25 March 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

France '84?

― Nick H (Nick H), Thursday, 25 March 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, but France's and England's only World Cup wins, the recent African Nations - home nations do generally do well. Look at the latest World Cup - they went much farther than anyone had anticipated.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 25 March 2004 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Indeed, working backwards in WCs and ECs:
2002: S Korea - 4th
2000: Holland - semis
1998: France - winners
1996: England - semis
1994: USA - 2nd round?
1992: Sweden - semis
1990: Italy - 3rd

― Nick H (Nick H), Thursday, 25 March 2004 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

To me, it seems that being the host is worth an extra round, success wise. The England team of 96 were really only quarter-finalists, the Koreans were only good enough to get to the quarters, Japan and the States weren't good enough to progress past round 1... etc.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 25 March 2004 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

But no one thought the South Koreans or Japanese were good enough to get past the group stage, except in that home tournament.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 25 March 2004 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

England '96 were good enough to win Euro '96, matched Germany all the way except in penalties.

South Korea's '02 success marred somewhat by appalling referee decisions but you felt the home advantage definitely helped.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 25 March 2004 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

And that guy that set fire to himself.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 25 March 2004 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

England 96 were the second best team in the tournament. The best team were Spain, though, who had about fourteen goals disallowed in the quarter final.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 25 March 2004 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Indeed.

― Ally C (Ally C), Thursday, 25 March 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

heh, seems they never learn

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 25 March 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Spain were rubbish in the group though, muddled through against Romania, Bulgaria and France iirc. I really thought they could win World Cup 2002 and was just waiting for them to meet the Germans so was disappointed in a way when Korea put a spanner in the works because I couldn't see them getting past Germany or Brazil whereas I think Spain (and England, bah) could've and should've.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 25 March 2004 22:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think Barry understood my post.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 25 March 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

football is a cruel cruel mistress.

Oh yes it's much more difficult to play against ten men.... unless those ten men play for Liverpool, they went from v. good to abysmal in one tug of the shirt. Which wasn't a penalty, obv. but maybe yes he should have been sent off.

Massive props to Celtic - we were having to flick between the two games and they defended tremendously.

― chris (chris), Friday, 26 March 2004 09:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't even think Biscan necessarily should have been sent off. Was it any worse than what that Marseille player did to Sami Hyppia in the lead-up to the disallowed goal?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 26 March 2004 09:48 (twenty-one years ago)

good point, no, not at all. But then in that Drogba wasn't the last man was he? Whereas Biscan... (who had been going up in my estimations recently)

― chris (chris), Friday, 26 March 2004 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Red card, yes. Penalty, no.

Is this one of those occasions where it would've been better for Liverpool had the Marseille forward, impeded as he was, gone on to score? Presumably the ref, having noted the offence, would have let it go (retrospective yellow card, maybe?) if the ball had squeezed inside the post.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 26 March 2004 11:17 (twenty-one years ago)

you're probably right Jonesy.

― chris (chris), Friday, 26 March 2004 11:18 (twenty-one years ago)

What idiot started this thread? It's plainly incorrect.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 8 April 2004 07:28 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a shame that no-one on ilx talks about the Champions' League anymore.

I like the Champions' League, nowadays.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 08:08 (twenty-one years ago)

er, there is a champions league thread pf.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 8 April 2004 08:12 (twenty-one years ago)

its a shame no one talks about buying glastonbury, tickets

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 8 April 2004 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

it's a shame, i think, that nobody ever seems to, talk, like this. anymore.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 8 April 2004 09:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you remember when AC Milan were the best team in Europe? Kaka, Shevchenko, Maldini etc. What a great side that was.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 8 April 2004 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)

i wonder, sometimes, what ilx would be like, if there were more than 10 people here

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 8 April 2004 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I, wonder, from, time, to, time, why, people, use, so, many, fucking, commas.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 8 April 2004 09:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Like,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this,,,,,,,,,,,,,?

― ..., Thursday, 8 April 2004 11:19 (twenty-one years ago)

actually, i think that ....... DEPORTIVO LA CORUÑA is the best team in europe!!!

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

ARSENAL ARE THE BEST IN EUROPE, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!

― Leela, Sunday, 25 April 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Chelsea may disagree with you there.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 25 April 2004 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

Are Inter Milan the most revolutionary team in Europe?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4537859.stm

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 May 2005 01:15 (twenty years ago)

Revealed, Zapatista Leader sub-commondante Marcos is really Ted Johnson from Red Meat.

http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/current/index-1.gif
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41134000/jpg/_41134989_marcos-ap203.jpg

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 12 May 2005 04:35 (twenty years ago)

i doubt this is about anything more than "our firecrackers are bigger than yours"

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 12 May 2005 08:21 (twenty years ago)

eight months pass...

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/SPORT/football/01/31/italy.cup/story.palermo.ap.jpg

PALERMO 3 - AC MILAN 0

THAT IS ALL.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 23:07 (twenty years ago)

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