Jersey Girl look like such shit and it uses Katrina and the Waves' "Walking on sunshine" in the trailer so any movie that uses that song is shit you just know it

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SHEESH

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Um any movie directed by Kevin Smith is shit cuz he is a talentless hack.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

ok lets make this the talk shit about KS thread then please and then we'll send it to his people and get posted on View Askew and then his fanboys will come talk shit

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:53 (twenty-two years ago)

and then we;ll fuckin brawl

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Kevin Smith has fans?!?!?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

watch

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I fail to understand how anyone could be fond of a directer who body of work includes DOGMA!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Yessss. I like the idea of his fans 'picking up on' the references in his films -- 'cos they're always to the same old shit. Do they ever wake up and think: is there more to cinema than 'Star Wars' and, um, other Kevin Smith movies? Basing my view on 'J&SBSB' and a student stage production of 'Clerks' (don't go there).

― Strachey, Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:58 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post)Oooh will they descend on us like the slightly over-weight sloppily dressed baseball hat wearing backwards salt-pepper bearded vikings of yore descended on the comic book shop when they heard that DC was selling a special limited edition platinum covered repress of Action Comics #1?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

DOgma is a fun movie. as are all Smith's other films. Jersey Girl doesn't look like my bag at all though - if he loves Ben Affleck so much he should just try and make something like Good Will Hunting, or take an existing product and put a clock in it...

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:16 (twenty-two years ago)

If Dogma and Chasing Amy is your idea of fun then id hate to see a Stevem party!

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't throw parties. there are a few things about each of his films that I do really dislike tho (the obvious stuff I guess, but why let that spoil the good bits completely?).

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

why do all the people talk the same

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

English?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex in SF otm

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

kevin smith is gonna have much to answer for when the generation of kids i went to film school with reach "maturity" (i.e. have sucked enough studio cock to step up from directing "look who's talking 5: squeeze that stone dry" to "their own projects".)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:10 (twenty-two years ago)

"i envision my new film to be a cross between dawsons creek, the banana splits, and blade runner."

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

(actually i would go see that. but you get the drift.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

but their own projects (if they can get them made) will be even worse no?

what film school did you go to and how can be sure to avoid it? or is it the same everywhere?

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

oh it's gotta be the same everywhere

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

the weird thing is that it's not as if we werent exposed to the "history of cinema" either; it just all bounced off our hides like so many canonballs.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

if i go to film school i will have to wear headphones with soothing sounds of humpback whales or something lest i smash a boom pole over the head of some classmate going on about kevin smith

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

you don't like kevin smith?

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

oh we love him

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not so much him as the fact that i find nothing whatsoever to enjoy in his films, and they make me feel like an adolescent cretin for the few minutes i am capable of standing them

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and him too

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

also his take on "gender relations" has done about as much damage as dashboard confessional and maxim combined

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:18 (twenty-two years ago)

really he conveniently represents everything about the world that i would like to carve away, let drift into the ether, and then forget ever existed

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Do film students also quote Tarantino scenes at each other? Perhaps I should go to film school... and then write a post-modern film about it, kind of 'Donnie Darko' meets 'The Usual Suspects'...

― Strachey, Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

elaborate on the 'gender relations' thing someone please (i sense what you mean but can't quite articulate it)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

He likes the idea of 'converting' lesbians. And is a big fan of the 'oh, if I just make the right romantic gesture my girl will love me again' school of thought.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, he can't write women for shit.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

He r fule, but some of some of the films is good, or at least amusing. Nothing especially genius about him, though, and increasingly so.

NB I quite like Dogma. Haha Alanis Morrissette is God with a foghorn voice.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah that's basically it. basically he's nu-emo for even nerdier kids, providing that it's okay be a gender-trapped neurotic passive aggressive fuck up provided you're AWARE that you are one.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

providing = proving, but even that wasnt what i really meant to say

maybe "providing an example"?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

i couldn't work out if Smith hated women or just completely idolised them in a sexually objectifying manner to the point of twisted absurdity, but i like Linda Fiorentino's character in Dogma regardless (don't mention realism please)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

i am just amazed he's married!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Jason Mewes and Jason Lee's turns in all the Smith films have been fantastic, except maybe in J&SB Strike Back where there was far too much nudge-winkery (tho i did laugh like a drain throughout all the same)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

it's deeply wrong (yet oh so right) of me that i take pleasure in the fact that jason mewes ended up a junkie

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

also, maybe just maybe Smith > Tarantino with regards to acting itself

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

jason mewes ended up a junkie

THE DAILY MAIL WUZ RIGHT

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Jason Mewes also ended up on Nike ads.

I tend to enjoy KS flicks. the J & SB one was completely self-indulgent, yet had parts that made me laugh pretty hard.

someone once put for the theory that (almost) all of his flicks are about his insecurities, e.g. Chasing Amy came from him trying to handle the fact that his girlfriend was more worldly than him(i.e. had been to Aussie Land)

― Kingfish Cowboy (Kingfish), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Clerks and Mallrats are still fun movies and y'all aren't going to ruin them for me. However, I will be very happy if I never, ever see Jersey Girl.

I actually like that everyone in his movies "talks the same", the same way I do with David Mamet movies. Like it or not, he's got an instantly identifiable style.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I know that KS movies are crap, but as Chaki pointed out the use of "Walking On Sunshine" is a surefire harbinger of a horrible movie. It's kind of like trailers that use the sound of a needle scratching across the surface of a record to convey that something "shocking" or "wacky" just happened.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Kevin Smith has made the only films I can stand to see Ben Affleck in. Of course, in those movies, he usually plays total cockgoblins.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i can only think of one other movie that uses 'Walking On Sunshine' and it wasn't THAT bad

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

And that would be...?

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

WHY was Kimberly Rew in the Waves, anyway?

― Kingfish Cowboy (Kingfish), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: the kevin smith film student vs. the david lynch film student

― scissors (Honda), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I want someone to explain why "Dogma" was apparently so horrible and wrong.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 116 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I stand corrected about Rodriguez, I forgot about that segment in Four Rooms, Rodriguez is better than Smith. And I also forgot about the whole "kill the chef" scene in Once Upon a Time In Mexico, that was great. Fuck, I must have been drunk when I made that post before.

Also, good point about Smith vs. David O. Russell. If anyone cared to notice, Dogma was just as shitty as his other movies but just because Smith tossed in some boring theological dialogue, people thought it was important.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 18 March 2004 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

but seriously folks! Jersey Girl stars Benlo and KEVIN SMITH'S DAUGHTER. thats just fucking tacky.

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Thursday, 18 March 2004 01:36 (twenty-two years ago)

women are ciphers, they'r catalysts, they're pawns or cogs, they're items on a far perch to be attained or disdained, but they're never central to the plot, they never make any decisions (except to break someones heart or take someone back), just a device to keep the action of the story moving (and keep the gags rolling).

ok, i don't at all intend this to be an antagonistic question, but i am curious. i'm asking jess, but the floor is open to anyone who finds themselves in the contradictory position of loving a (subset of y) and hating b (subset of y): how exactly do you rectify your love of, say, ludacris with the above? at what point do you move from misogyny being an unfortunate attribute in artists you enjoy/tolerate to it being a central reason for your dismissal of them? are artists that are misogynistic/*istic in a way you don't understand more likely to be tolerated or endured?

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 18 March 2004 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Is misogyny anyone here's central reason for dismissing Smith?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Is misogyny anyone here's central reason for dismissing Smith?

I just think his films are poorly written (and poorly edited). Chasing Amy was thematically brave, I suppose, but all it really succeeded at was putting a taboo subject out there for discussion. Clerks was okay for what it was, entertaining enough to a point (before devolving into lame slapstick and really overdoing and underthinking the potty humor). It should have been a 20-minute short, not a feature.

The Jersey pride is kind of endearing; surely there's a place in the canon for vaguely well-schooled but potentially thuggish suburban kids whose parents and teachers have mollycoddled every last wacky brain-blip and called it "creativity."

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:42 (twenty-two years ago)

especially in ILX.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

where is custos' movie, anyway?

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

how exactly do you rectify your love of, say, ludacris with the above?

The difference is beats and bass (I'm guessing).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

The difference is not beats and bass. Good art can be made by people who have ideas or hold beliefs I disagree with or find repugnant. I can derive enjoyment from/acknowledge the value in their art while simultaneously remaining somewhat critical of their ideas/beliefs. If Kevin Smith made great films we could all talk about how great they were with the caveat that they appear to be rather misogynistic. He doesn't make good films so instead we talk about how much they suck and btw they are also rather misogynistic, ick.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:07 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post)

fuck custos. your statement helps explain MY student film.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

it feels kind of redundant now to say that i hate kevin smith too! i didn't notice anyone mentioning his visual "style," surely the ugliest of any recent filmmaker i can think of, indie or not

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: The visual style (or lack thereof) of Farrelly Bros vs. Kevin Smith hahaha

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i'll take the farrelly brothers over kevin smith any day!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post)(note: I love love love Kingpin but their flicks have got to be the cheapest looking pieces of crap ever. They both make the Blair Witch Project look like Lawrence of Arabia though.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I prefer my beats and bass answer.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 March 2004 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

(Less subjective, y'see.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 March 2004 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

While this might be a reason to dislike Smith movies unto itself, how does that measure up to "woman-hating"?

Would anyone on Earth expect Smith to make a woman his focus? Has he shown any ability to write a protagonist who isn't a facet of Smith's own identity?

Most of the problems with him here seem to stem from the expectations being brought on the part of the viewer - expectations that Smith (by all appearances) neither wanted nor attempted to meet. Jordan OTM earlier - I'm totally OK with someone who wants to make cheap, sorta-dumb movies with his friends for yuks.

Strongo's film-school commentary puzzles me - don't you always say you hated film-school because of all the pretentious nuts trying to be Antonioni or Godard? But you hate people making silly relationship flicks (without enough emotional depth for the chiXors), too?

Like, seriously, what kind of wannabe directors are you OK with?

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 18 March 2004 04:34 (twenty-two years ago)

milo see upthread:

"i envision my new film to be a cross between dawsons creek, the banana splits, and blade runner."

(actually i would go see that. but you get the drift.)

― Dave M. (rotten03), Thursday, 18 March 2004 09:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Vilmos Zigmond's doing the new one!

Yes Gods! Look up Vilmos' and Lazlo Kovacs' biogs -- this is truly wack.

― Strachey, Thursday, 18 March 2004 09:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned OTM - but don't forget the mad flow

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 18 March 2004 10:29 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not women-hating it's women-being-unnecessarily-mystified-by

s1ocki correct in putting visual style between scare quotes

i like matt damon, but liking ben affleck usually suggests a lack of oxygen following birth

― !!!! (amateurist), Thursday, 18 March 2004 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't even think of Smith as having a particular visual style but i don't see anything especially bad about his films visually - certainly not more than the Farrelly Brothers or the Wayans neither of whom I don't think are as talented as Smith

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 18 March 2004 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

For fuck's sake, I wasn't dismissing Jess's opinion.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

If anything, I wanted him to expand upon it, but whatever.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

The difference is that Ludacris is funny.

(/jess)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

(I think they're both funny of course)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

ha, what if Jersey Girl > Chicken & Beer

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

there's always a possibility.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

END TIMES

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

look, i'm not saying i want to face up to it either

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 18 March 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

from popbitch:

Michael Jackson was trying to get a film called
Hot Rod made, directed by Kevin Smith. The film
was about how a man, played by Jackson, would hang
out with a little boy, then morph into a car,
which the boy would then get into and drive.
(Dr Freud...anything?)

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 18 March 2004 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I alone in thinking JASBSB is hilarious regardless, Clerks is tres classique, and everything else he's made is barely withstandable?

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I think JASBSB may be the best thing he's done!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

(That doesn't make his "career" as a "filmmaker" any less annoying, though.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

The black director scene in JASBSB was unforfuckinggivable.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

There was a black director scene in "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back"? (I just remembered that I saw that one too and thought it was complete and utter in-jokey fluff.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever, that scene was funny! Although it could've been much better with Dave Chappelle in place of Chris Rock.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah it was like a reactoionary rundown of every nasty stereotype about spike lee.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

compare to "pootie tang's" funny and loving rundown.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

As a huge fan of JASBSB I will also concede that it (nor any other movie ever) in no way whatsoever compares to Pootie Tang in terms of awesomeness.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I still don't remember this scene! (Although to be honest, anything that puts Chris Rock in a position where he is mocking Spike Lee has a high probability of making me laugh.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i liked Clerks when it came out, i think more in part because i was a clerk at the time. a thread about kevin smith should not be this long

― kephm, Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

is teeny serious with her last post???

― kephm, Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

The black director scene was awful. Chris Rock as angry-black-directorman/Spike just was grating and had zero laughs.

Okay, one - "Niggas With Puppets" (which sounds like a Chappelle Show skit)

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 18 March 2004 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I seriously saw it on popbitch, anyway!

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 19 March 2004 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

ok so i dont know anyone that has seen this film

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Saturday, 10 April 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

For cyring out loud, I bet you Kevin Smith hasn't even seen the ultimate case study on Jersey Girls : www.njguido.com

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 11 April 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd rather see Jersey Girl than White Chicks

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Sunday, 11 April 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't tell you how many student films were talky relationship comedies and therefore miserable. I remember films that were about four guys sitting at a table and talking about girls. And of course crazy pop culture references to stuff like The Godfather, Star Trek, etc.

Replace "films" with "threads" and whaddya get . . . .

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Sunday, 11 April 2004 06:55 (twenty-one years ago)

six years pass...

As further proof that the movie is actually happening, Shock Till You Drop has just received the logline for Kevin Smith's upcoming, and pretty mysterious, horror pic Red State. It's far from a detailed plot synopsis (no spoiler warning necessary), but it does give us a better idea of what the film will be about:

A group of kids encounters a crazed preacher (based on Fred Phelps, founder of the Westboro Baptist Church) who gives a whole new meaning to the term "extreme fundamentalism."

We still don't know a lot about the film, but Smith had previously announced that the production is scheduled to begin later this month, with a $20 million budget. Last month, Kevin also said via his Twitter, "God-willing, Sundance in Jan for RED STATE."

The film will star frequent Quentin Tarantino
and Robert Rodriguez collaborator Michael Parks. Other actors rumored to appear include Kyle Gallner, Melissa Leo, Dermot Mulroney, Michael Angarano and Steven Root.

― buzza, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 21:48 (fifteen years ago)

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