Electrically--inclined folks: Can you ground an ungrounded outlet by hooking the ground wire to a radiator?

I'm hoping the answer is yes, because it's a really really nice space at a reasonable rate. I have this horrible feeling that it's not a good idea though, which sucks, because I don't really want to put my computer equipment at risk by leaving it on ungrounded circuits. :(

I'm assuming 'grounding' is what I'd call 'earthing' - am I right?

The connecting-to-a-radiator thing would only work if your radiators are earthed - grounded - because otherwise all that you'd do is increase your chances of getting electrocuted by a radiator. If there's any non-metal pipe in the central heating system and there isn't constant earth bonding, any excess charge will just build up.

The electrical systems I'm used to are probably completely different from yours, but I'm having difficulty imagining a building without an earth block/rod/whatever - often where the main electricity meter is? And the mains-water pipes should come through there and have wires clipped to them which run back to the earth block, which would mean the cold water was earthed at least.

It really doesn't seem like a good idea, though. Even if you're running your computer off a surge-protected extension lead.

Or you need to power a flux capacitor.

It would probably work. You can buy a polarity tester at a hardware store for a couple bucks. Ground the outlet to the radiator and then test the polarity. It's probably fine.

I'm not an electrician, but I play one on TV.

Unfortunately, we didn't have the option of doing that while we were looking at it. I mean, worse comes to worse and we'll ground it off against one of the water pipes and run a longer lead.

cis, unfortunately an awful lot of the buildings here in Toronto seem to have wiring that's old enough not to have required grounding when they were built (legally speaking), just the twin lead pos/neg. A lot of landlords have just upgraded the sockets to accept the three-lead plugs, but without actually adding in any grounding. The way a lot of the buildings were put together, it must be hellishly expensive to upgrade the wiring, so most places just don't bother.

That's so not wise.

Sean - I mean test it after you move in...

The ground wire is basically a redundant wire (on a 110 circuit.) The left slot of the outlet and the the ground go to the same place. Most modern equipment doesn't really need a ground wire anymore, as long as the polarity is correct. (If you buy power tools these days, you'll see that they are mostly two prong..) As long as the wires aren't frayed and sitting in water, it's really not a huge concern.

But you could check on an electricians' forum if you wanted to.

You could install a Ground Fault Circuit Interupt receptacle (with Test/Reset like are required in modern residential bathrooms) at any outlet you're concerned needs grounding to protect against electrocutions and short circuits. One GFCI can protect several outlets wired behind it, if you can figure out how they're strung together. Old buildings with no grounding probably don't have that many receptacles anyway.

Interrupt...

Except you can't install one if there is no ground wire.

dave, the problem is that we were seriously considering just not taking the place at all if there was no way to ground at least one outlet. Most of our equipment is polarized (and none of the wiring there is reversed...it's just running with open ground) so it may not be a huge issue in the end.

Stuart, someone else told me about that type of device as well, but in the form of an extension cord that could be plugged in to any non-grounded outlet and provide (or simulate?) grounding, but damned if we can find anything of the sort at the big hardware places. Any recommendations for things like that? Or will GFCIs still need to be grounded off against something? (Which goes back to the original question...)

I think we're going to just take the space anyhow, because it seems to have so much else going for it over the other places we've looked at so far. And I think that finding a place with fully upgraded electrical--for a reasonable price--is going to be tough.

GFCIs don't use a ground, they just compare what's going out of the hot wire and coming in through the neutral and cuts the power if the difference is too great.

Here, check this out: http://www.handymanwire.com/articles/ground1.html

Cool, thanks. One thing I'm wondering though...if you installed one of these for a circuit you were going to use for a computer, for example, would the power draw be a problem at all? Do they have a certain amp rating that will cause them to pop and shut off the current? Obviously with a computer that would be very bad indeed.

where's the apt sean?

It's still in the east end, down near Coxwell/Dundas.

NB: UK/EU folks this is not how the ground/earth system works here. It's not the same as the neutral wire its a circuit connected to a bloody great spike in the ground.

Sean, if you're trying to plug Univac into your power strip, you may want to make sure it's well grounded. ;-)

Hah, no, it's just a standard desktop PC.

Just heard back from a friend who does electrical work in town on the types of buildings that I'm thinking of moving into, and he said the following:

1) Hooking to the radiator or even the water pipes is unwise, especially if there is other plumbing between us and the ground, because if there ever was a problem, anyone who was touching anything connected to that--leaning on a radiator, having a shower perhaps--could end up in a world of pain. Unfortunately, this is kind of what I figured.

2) There may be strips included in the wall that offer grounding, but wouldn't be able to figure that out unless we pried open the sockets to check around. Apparently there are quite a few buildings around here that have potential grounding wires already built in, but for whatever reason, they were never hooked up. Weird but worth looking into.

3) Failing that, GFI.