Oh that wacky Courtney

Three viewpoint
1) She's dud
2) She's cool
3) She really needs some help but there seems to be no-one big enough to do it.

Courtney adores you. Please help her. You were once a coke-addled psycho. I think you can do some good here.

She's deeply troubled, but certainly has a spark. She was able to make D. Letterman feel really uncomfortable, but at the same time, made him love her. Contrast with Madonna.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ips_rich_content/771-courtney_letterman.JPG

In honor of Courtney, Im gonna go punch a cop on my lunch break. to be punk n' stuff.

Some people play bad girls, others really are bad girls.

YES.

Yeah, very true...originally I was going to qualify "were able to escape from them" with "or just cope" but took it out for clarity's sake.

Yes, also very true.

This is entirely arguable.

...or a case against.

no, that's "debatable"

its ok if their gfs but not ok if their equal talents

(cf yoko and john, yoko making the more interesting, more complicated,more out there shit, and having that rub off on john, and then being villified)

i think that she deconstructs, the top off thing--she qouated any number of people who did it, and she tool lettermans smarminess and casual unfeeling, and dismissal of women (that kissing hands, and asking about husbands, and not really engaging with them) and said fuck you, its like presenting cock...

as for plaid, i think she did the usual playing around with the microphone thing and got charged, it was a fucking accident--we aint charging fred durst for inciting a riot at woodstock '02, for example.

as for her music, i like that she is a record geek, i like that she works with women for women, i like how she knows what her instrument is (ie ragged, broken, lovely and worn voice) and plans around it, i like the edges.

i think shes lonely, sick, sad and i dont think we should be mocking her but seeking her help.

yeah, the kid's father was much more responsible.

I'm not denying she's sad or needs help. Like MANY MANY PEOPLE she's got serious problems and needs help.

But at the same time, why should so much time be spent discussing *her* problems when the same situations are being enacted every day, in every city in so many poor, unfortunate lives? Is it because she hit the jackpot and hooked up with a "tragic" rock and roll figure?

FWIW I'm obviously not a Courtney fan. I think she's a talentless hack who was lucky in so that she fucked the right people to make it to the top. This doesn't separate her from the numerous other "celebrities" who did the same thing but it makes me unsympathetic towards her.

Like I said, there are many other non-famous folx who deserve more attention and help than she is getting.

She's boring. Next.

This thread isn't about Kurt. And just because he blew his head off doesn't leave Courtney off the hook of parental responsibility.

As for her "deconstructs", alleged record geek-ness, women-centric ambitions, and ongoing odes to punk rock/underground music, I am suspicious of her intentions and find Love's many proclamations about these subjects to be at least part of her overall desire to be seen as a hip celebrity. Men do rule rock, but many women play right into the game and are successful on their own terms without resorting to sideshow bullshit or lavicious behavior.

I can never figure out why whenever anyone asks for a little dignity from Courtney Love that it somehow has to do with her being a woman and not her antics.

i'm a bit ashamed to admit that i have more sympathy to expend on him because he's so goddam talented, and courteney love is just a nullity in that regard

i don't think that has anything to do with gender, i think gender is bordering on red herring territory here

I think Hollywood provides us with a number of analogues. A couple recent ones:

Robert Downey Jr. & Dennis Quaid

Both had/have severe drug problems that arguably (second definition) kept them from being the biggest stars of their respective generations. They get chances because of their genuine talent and then blow them and can't get work again/for years.

So if the question is male/female, I think there's evidence for fairly equal treatment.

The question in show business is not how outrageous you are or how self destructive, but how dependable. Trash your hotel at night, fine, but don't come to work stoned and unable to perform. If you make your shooting call AND IF people see your movie/buy your record, you'll have no problem working. However, if you jeopardize shooting through unreliability or can't complete tours if you're a singer, you'll never work.

anyhow, her fans seems willing to okay her idiotic behaviour by going on about the tragedies of mental illness + drug abuse - making her out to be a victim. where as someone like weilend does dumb shit, he goes to jail and people take the attitude of "what a dumb shit that guy is" - no sympathy.

i'm also biased here because i hold her accountable for kurt's death.
does courtney even have possession of francis - who's taking care of that kid¿

It all depends on how you do it Kerry (though my word choice and horrid spelling could have been better.)

If Courtney were only responsible for Courtney, sure, party up, enjoy that untreated mental illness, do whatever, knock yourself out grrrl. But Courtney decided to have a kid, and that decision makes her responsible for that kid. It sucks that her husband killed himself, but unfortunately that means that Frances' well-being is all on her.

I would say this whether Courtney were a man or a woman, whether she was a cashier or an accountant or a rock star. You have a kid, you're responsible for the kid - or if you can't be, you do the compassionate thing and make sure that kid is with someone who can be. Although poor Frances is a bit old to put up for adoption... And the idea that she would go to Kurt's family, who didn't do a whole hell of a lot for his depression, is just chilling.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004130442,00.html

this has nothing to do with gender anthony.

Also, Courtney was forced by the court to turn over her kid on at least two occasions that I can think of. That's not exactly "finding people to help out".

im not suggesting she is the best parent, but im also suggesting a lot of people have it out for her.

It's unneccsary to "have it out" for Courtney. She does that well enough on her own.

We can go down the list and name lots of shitty parents. But please, let's try to avoid comparisons with musicians, especially ones who are obviously more talented than Love is.

A lot of people have it out for Courtney, yes but it has nothing to do with her being a woman, an "outspoken woman", a feminist, or whatever other red herring she has come up with. It has to do with her abrasive, publicity-crusading personality. She is in love with celebrity, and taunts popular culture with her celebrity power. Initially, this was amusing behavior but her pathetic antics of late have revealed a person with many serious problems. These problems alarm many, and repulse many others. And unlike, say, Keith Richards, Courtney Love is also infamous for her manipulative personality--consequences of which are now (finally) starting to become a career repellant. Were she not wealthy, people would have likely written her off as a piece of human debris long ago.

For my part, aside from the Frances Bean issue, which I think has some legitimacy (but do any of us know how the girl has been raised?), I wonder why Courtney seems to spark such anger in people. I mean, "we" -- through our continuing consumption of and fascination for -- support this strange world of celebrities. Courtney is partly our creation... if we don't live on a media-free island, that is.

if you want to show your tits, fine. just make you have good ones first.

"nook-yoo-lar"

please please please tell me that dictionaries haven't started listing this as an alternative pronunciation.

Ingrid Sischy: Do you remember the last time we saw each other in California?

Courtney: Was that the night I brought John Kerry to the birthday party at the Beverly Hills Hotel that you were throwing for Elton John?

IS: No, but that was funny too. I thought you knew him really well when you walked in with him.

CL: No, no, no. I had just seen him, and I said, "Do you want to come with me?" He looked at me and he must have been scared shitless, right? And I said, "I'm going to take you to a really good dinner...trust me." I grabbed his arm and I said, "You're really gonna thank me." It was a long walk to the room where the dinner was, and he said, "Is there any paparazzi..." And I said, "If you finish that sentence, I'm going to hex you." What I liked about it was that he trusted me and he took my arm. That's how he got my vote.

It all seemed to start when Courtney, a few years ago, was being seen with her best-friend-of-the-minute Amanda De Cadenet, and the two of them squealed around like spit-shined go-go tarts in the same dress and tiara for a couple of parties, getting paparazzied. Since de Cadenet is kind of a model type and Courtney, next to her, looked like the day-old rack at a Polish bakery, Courtney must have taken one look at the photos from this stunt, torn at her alternative, disturbed-person hairstyle and howled "I'm going to be the pretty one next time! As God is my witness, the world will turn on it's fucking ear before I look that bad next to somebody again!" It hurts all girls at one time or another, very much, to not be the pretty one in a society which prizes beautiful women above all things. I guess we hoped Courtney would be the one famous person big enough to stand up to that lookist bullshit.

The other section about Courtney from the book is still online. Now go buy the damn thing.