Dumb people - how do you deal with them?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

We're all smart here, we know that. But every day in every way we have to deal with stupid, ignorant, blinkered, small-minded people. How do we manage this? What's the correct way to talk to people you know are dumb? To what extent do we have a right to treat them like inferiors?

This is a serious question - should stupid people get sympathy and gentle treatment, or scorn and loathing?

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:43 (twenty-two years ago)

(I am assuming here that you mean dumb ppl in the sense of not very intelligent or less intelligent than you.) You have no right to treat them as inferiors. You can speak to them in the same way you'd speak to anyone else, if they don't understand then explain it in a different way.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree, treat them the same.

― Annabelle (bella1618), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:47 (twenty-two years ago)

don't treat them as inferiors, treat them as people. Some folks are cleverer than others, it's just like that.

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, okay, let's be a little more pragmatic then. One of the key qualities of this board is the intolerance of dumbness in pretty much any context. What's that all about?

And yeah, I don't just mean people unfortunate enough to have low IQs.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Unless of course Mark they are irritating teenage aussies with nowt better to do than start a load of useless threads! In that case, go ahead, insult them all you like!
x-post

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

> stupid, ignorant, blinkered, small-minded people.

I don't think you should group all these together. The final (I think) chapter of Oliver Sacks' The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat had a big effect on me. It was about caring for a mentally retared person, and it made me see how unimportant intelligence was in the grand scheme of things. I should read it again, it's been years.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:49 (twenty-two years ago)

So by dumbness you do mean less intelligent?

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Barry how dare you accuse me of being smart

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Same as what? You can't have a high level of exciting dialogue with some people, so how do you interact with them on a practical level?

I try to be polite, but frustration is a bad thing for my composure when being asked, 'Can I get that website on my internet here?' Which I just was by the crazy lady from down the hall.

meh several xposts - I think annabelle might be worth talking to in small doses.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:51 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a fantastic book by the way N.

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Neither. (xpost times six?)

If an intelligent person has a dumb viewpoint, it maybe can be reasoned out.

If a dumb person has a dumb viewpoint, their reasoning may be bogus anyway.

And if you can't tell which one they are, best leave them in their dumbviewpointness...

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean all kinds of stupidity - let ignorance of all shades and causes be discussed!

(Pink, it was those threads that got me thinking about the subject - your response there was exactly what I was thinking about - is it fair to be rude and dismissive just because she isn't on our level?)

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:54 (twenty-two years ago)

re: my post above. ILX is not the same as real life. If I don't have any real human bond with a person, then of course a premium is put on wit and intelligence. I want this board to entertain me.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

is ILX designed intelligently enough to cater for dimwits/newbies? (re the eternal 'use the Search!' refrain)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The difference with the continued appearance of teen aussies on this board wishing death & asking about ice cream is that they are not inkeeping with the tone of the board. I mean an ice cream thread would be great, but to just launch into it like that and start loads of banal threads like she did isn't about being dumb or less intelligent. It's probably a kid who has had the misfortune to find ilx & is treating it like a chat room. That isn't (well some threads are, but apart from those) what ILX is about on the whole.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 10:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Perhaps there should be some 'read the faqs before posting' notice like Sinister. So that random ppl don't just post a load of nonsense.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh no wait, I fall into that category! :-(

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Sinister also has a two-week nursery period during which new subscribers can't post.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I like that idea Liz, that was kinda what I was getting at.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think it would work on here, because it would be super-frustrating not to be able to post.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:04 (twenty-two years ago)

It's a bit organised ~~fun~~ though, isn't it? One thing about ILX is that everyone on here is so utterly convinced of their own importance that such an idea would get short shrift. Wouldn't it?

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Can someone wake up Jess for this thread? Please?

― Sarah (starry), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:05 (twenty-two years ago)

There is some Classic Barry on this thread.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Well then I guess it's futile to argue about whether ppl should be mean or welcoming to new supposed trolls.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:06 (twenty-two years ago)

guess wat??? i am 3rd best student all round in my year. and i kno ur pov

― asd, Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I bet your school is great. Do you still have spelling tests?

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:09 (twenty-two years ago)

heh heh!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, cos like, if anyone would understand about being dumb, durr. NB this is not what I mean Jess, when you wake up.

Yes, along with N I have issues with stupid, ignorant, blinkered, [and] small-minded being lumped together. The problem with associating with bloody GOFFS all the sodding time is their infinitely infuriating manner of condescesion and downright hatred at some point towards, the "normals", the "blinkered", the "small-minded" and quite frankly I'm surprised to see you thinking along the same lines, Barry. Unless you too are secretly AN GOTH as well?

― Sarah (starry), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Two week non-posting period? Youse kidding...

I think I posted a couple times on the Sinister thing. Many Many years ago. They had a registry of 'TigerMilk' (Electric Honey) owners, and I added some famous DJ (not radcliffe) to their list.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I am most uncomfortable with all this.

Perhaps I slept on a pea last night.

― penelope_11, Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

If you wish to get rid of the irritants, shouldn't you just ignore them? I don't find Annabelle irritating, mind.

I'm not really a regular poster, so perhaps these things bother me less.

Plus, I support West Ham, so what do I know? And I used to be a goth.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I am in favour of rounding them all up and shooting them.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I know, Mikey :)

Yeah ok in fairness not all goths R like the infuriating model I've described above, but in a gathering of goffs (gaggle? mob? herd?) you're far more likely to get that type of thing pop up than in a bunch of so-called "normals". Have I ever said how I hate that flipping term?

Ignoring the irritants online seems so bladdy self-explanatory that I am assuming Barry has some external irritant like co-workers getting on his nerves. F#cking DEAL with the fact that not everyone is going to want to talk about AFCW all day or the consistency of mozarella!! Don't let yourself turn into a resentful hata, Bazza! You're better than that! They're not worth it!

― Sarah (starry), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you'll find that the collective noun for goths is a Corrosion.

Starry is talking a lot of sense, I think I need a lie down ;o)

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Yikes! Don't tell anyone else my reputation will be ruined...

― Sarah (starry), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Sarah makes sense. However I prefer the collective noun Elysium.

On a tangent, there are divisions within goths themselves. Me and my gothy friends used to look down on the Industrial Goths. And everyone looked down on me for liking All About Eve.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:26 (twenty-two years ago)

don't treat them as inferiors, treat them as people. Some folks are cleverer than others, it's just like that.

and some folks' mothers are cleverer than other folks' mothers

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought the collective noun for Goths was "An Oil Slick"...

― Psycho Kate (kate), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm offended now.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:32 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha Ken, I thought that as I was writing it

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Going on about how stupid people are in comparison to you is a good way of drawing potentially negative attention to yourself.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Admitting to being a goth is another.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm a little surprised by the niceness of everyone here. Maybe I'm internally more snarkier than I realize.

"don't treat them as inferiors, treat them as people. Some folks are cleverer than others, it's just like that." (and some folx mothers etc etc)

While working in retail I quickly lost whatever kind attitude similar to the above I may have had before. People I interact with and think are dumb in one particular context I know very well aren't dumb in all ways and all times, but feeling superior (and equally often, inferior) on occasion is something that happens as a matter of course. That feeling does not necessarily get acted upon, but when you're (for example) having to explain to the same customer repeatedly why you can't process their returned purchase the way they think you should, that *feeling* of superiority is like a last-ditch attempt to salvage dignity.

― sgs (sgs), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

haha "more snarkier."

― sgs (sgs), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I am better than this.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:40 (twenty-two years ago)

sgs..

Ref; the Dilbert cartoon maxim:

1) The customer is always right
2) They must be punished for their arrogance...

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Starry and whoever, I WAS NOT LUMPING THOSE WORDS TOGETHER!!!!!

I wanted to talk about each of them separately - why can't you just TRY to see the question as a positive display of curiosity rather than leaping to blinkered negative readings of a genuine query?

(this thread already reeks of the holier-than-thou snideness I was hoping to avoid. Just be yourselves, get off your semantic/PC horses and talk about how you feel, emotionally or instinctively, about dumb people. However you want to define dumb is fine by me)

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I once flagged down a bus not realising it had OUT OF SERVICE on the front. The driver pulled over and said "How stupid are you, mate?"

I said, "well, you're the bus driver."

I felt really bad about it for ten minutes.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:44 (twenty-two years ago)

cool heckle, though. Spesh as he's not going to be your driver...

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 62 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

"K-Mart - come for the bathroom, stay for the cheap pants"

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i know it exists, but i haven't read it.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i have my own version written down in an old planner. nb: the bathrooms at the barnes and noble across the road from kmart are usually extremely crowded.

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

yup. and filthy!

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

shocking, isn't it. and don't get me started about the ones at the astor place starbucks.

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:57 (twenty-two years ago)

ewwwww.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:58 (twenty-two years ago)

this topic might need its own thread.

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:00 (twenty-two years ago)

how do people remember long strings of information like that?

maybe visualizing the route? Do those of you who have trouble with verbal directions generally not have that good of a sense of direction?

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I know I'm hopeless with that kind of thing. Left and right and facing north and all that palaver totally confuses me when it comes to mental visualisation. I'm one of those eedjits who has to turn a map the way I'm going (even though I KNOW that is silly).

There are reasons why I don't drive a car!

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:11 (twenty-two years ago)

how do you deal with them?
hammers

― Speedy (Speedy Gonzalas), Thursday, 25 March 2004 08:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I had an experience today that relates to this question. I spent the morning hanging out with the son of a very, very famous writer. I was pretending to sympathise with this guy, but I spent so long pretending it actually started happening in reality and suddenly I realised the disadvantages of having amazingly intelligent parents, at a gut level. When I've only ever bothered to think about the disadvantages of having really uneducated parents.

Hanging out with people who are more intelligent than you isn't necessarily a bed of roses, unless they're willing to condescend to you and treat you gently and supportively. You might not realise it, but for all the people whose stupidity you're impatient with, there are others who'll find it a drag talking to you. How would you want them to treat you? Think about it! If you want!

― a (Amity), Thursday, 25 March 2004 08:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, your assertion upthread is just not true. Can't your glass ever be half full, just once?

I have a terrible sense of direction, which causes me no end of difficulty while playing Conflict: Desert Storm on my friend's PS2. Fortunately, he knows what he's doing, so I'm happy to fall into a scarily comfortable subservient role.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 25 March 2004 10:36 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.logossun.com/hgc/fokus/groo/slike/scene1.jpg

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 25 March 2004 11:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I assure you Mark my frown is permanently upside down.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 25 March 2004 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't believe that people assume intelligence = education. My grandparents had a sixth grade education and my parents had a high school education. But I probably learned things from them that I wouldn't have if they had been 'educated'.

Meanwhile, I've worked with all sorts of people who pat themselves on the back because they have a big vocabulary or some other superficial marker of what is considered 'intelligent', but their curiosity about the world is completely stunted. Or they're so vain and careerist that 3/4 or more of their brain is wasted thinking about their stature.

Academia is full of these people. You hear people all the time talk about 'intelligence' as if it were a club, and they're absolutely certain of who is and who isn't in it.

I get this all the time, because I'm well-educated, so higher-ups have always given me asides like, 'well, you're one of the smart ones around here, nudge, nudge.'

― Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 25 March 2004 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Let a frown be your umbrella. Smile? No smile. It shaped all wrong. Smile make lousy umbrella.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 25 March 2004 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the menus are full of too much information for people of a certain age (i.e our parents) We went to Chili's last night, and had a spot of confusion over the regular menu version versus the atkins style one (bunless hamburgers!) My parent don't read TV Guide because it "confuses" them.

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 25 March 2004 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd rather get confused, for a moment, when sitting down in a restaurant than get confused when I'm trying to find somewhere, especially in a moving car.

I rarely get confused in restaurants, though.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 25 March 2004 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm perpetually confused-what my grandma would put down to "too much book-learnin'", prob'ly

― Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Thursday, 25 March 2004 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe visualizing the route?

if you've never taken the route and don't know the area, it's hard to visualize it.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the menus are full of too much information for people of a certain age (i.e our parents)

This is one of the reasons my parents have started going to buffets -- the food's all right there in front of them and they can take a little of everything and not have to make any "choices" (another reason being that my mom's diabetic/Atkins and she can load up on vegetables and meat and not be stuck with a plate full of carbs she can't eat).

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

It is reasonable to be confused by menus, because menu writers are not typically members of any cultural elite themselves. "Pie with chips and peas or salad"? It's a goddamn trick question. Use commas, pricks.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I've hardly ever had that happen, and if it has I've usually been able to figure it out from context -- with this example I'm pretty sure "peas or salad" is the variable.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

WRONG!

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Pie, (with (chips and peas) or (salad))

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I prefer it when people speak for themselves only or not at all and don't bother me when I'm eating or thinking about what I'd like to eat or working out what I can eat or where I am.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Most menus don't just say "salad" if it's a main dish -- they say "dinner salad" or "arugula salad with etc etc." If it's an appetizer or side dish, that's when you see "salad."

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING DOOFUSES

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

are you calling yourself a doofus?

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

wtf is "chips and peas"?

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

exactly.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

whoever orders pie with chips and peas or salad deserves whatever he gets.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Clever point.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

the point is that that HARDLY EVER HAPPENS and if it does just fucking stop making everyone's life miserable and order something that does make sense!

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe the slowcoaches are doing a close-reading of the menu. It's admirable.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, just cuz you don't care WHAT THE FUCK you're putting in your mouth.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the idea is to choose between "chips and peas" and salad.. i.e. "pie with chips and peas" or "pie with salad".

You don't actually order "pie with chips and peas or salad", cos that's dumb. And yes, if you ordered that you deserve whatever you get.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, just cuz you don't care WHAT THE FUCK you're putting in your mouth.

you're saying this to me?

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

where are you, now?????

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

what?

― stockholm aja (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I would like some pie.

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Pie, (with (chips and peas) or (salad))

mark grout is OTM. More menus need to be written in either LISP or SCHEME because I can't follow the turgid English that's written for the idiots.

Then again I don't go to those kinds of restaurants.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe all restaurants should serve food right out of the can, Repo Man style.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

my public service announcement for the day: under no circumstances should anyone order pie (with anything) at the turkish-run cafe by the tesco's in the stroud green road. lord god, is it nasty.

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 25 March 2004 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

(order '(pie (or (and chips peas) salad)))

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 March 2004 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Can I just have a roll?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 March 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

(order 'roll)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 March 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

seven years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgUhYeu94Bc

― SELF DEPORTATION (Z S), Thursday, 2 February 2012 02:48 (fourteen years ago)

^^ just another sales spiel with a hook

If you're mark z. you don't need what she is selling, otherwise, line up and hand over the cash, because what I have for you is a "monster of a differentiator", bcz you're Joe Avergae and you can't afford to be average!!

― Aimless, Thursday, 2 February 2012 03:07 (fourteen years ago)

over 200+ views on that video, she is bringing in the sales in 2012

― SELF DEPORTATION (Z S), Thursday, 2 February 2012 03:21 (fourteen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.