"Making enquiries around student bars and "bike-messenger hangouts" in Portland, Oregon, they discovered that the people who had started drinking PBR - who had "embraced the brand"

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http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1177959,00.html

this is hard to read kinda

― tom west (thomp), Saturday, 27 March 2004 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hornby seems unaffected by the big-hitters that he pals around with, at the sentence level, free of what Harold Bloom called "the anxiety of influence" - "

― tom west (thomp), Saturday, 27 March 2004 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, this turned out to be about McSwsy's!

― Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 27 March 2004 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

why, so it did.

― tom west (thomp), Saturday, 27 March 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

It mixed a story about Portland marketing that I've head a million times with criticism of McSwy's that I've heard a million times. I totally want my 4 minutes back.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 27 March 2004 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

hey, i never said it was good. sorry, mister

― tom west (thomp), Saturday, 27 March 2004 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

By giving it its own thread you implied your endorsement of it as something worth reading.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 27 March 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i went to stoke on trent once

― gareth (gareth), Saturday, 27 March 2004 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

you're from america, right?

― tom west (thomp), Saturday, 27 March 2004 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

the first guy, not the other guy. no one from america has ever been to stoke-on-trent

― tom west (thomp), Saturday, 27 March 2004 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm from Portland, even. And no, I haven't been to Stoke-On-Trent, or any part of the UK, even.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 27 March 2004 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

theres something called a short short story (roughly 400 words) by eggers in the magazine part of the guardian today. its got to be the most poorly written story i've read in a long long time. are his books this bad?

― zappi (joni), Saturday, 27 March 2004 23:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Yup.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 27 March 2004 23:40 (twenty-two years ago)

heres a link if you want to torture yourself
http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/generalfiction/story/0,6000,1177745,00.html

― zappi (joni), Saturday, 27 March 2004 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

And You Shall Know Our Velocity! is scary bad.

― m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Saturday, 27 March 2004 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

THE VELOCTIY OF MY FOT UP HIS ASS HAHA J/K EGGERRS YOURE ALRIGHT

― FABTASTIC (Gear!), Saturday, 27 March 2004 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

But he has his fans.

― m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Saturday, 27 March 2004 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

My open-mindedness evaporated when I read the word "wildebeest."

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I always think of the title of that book as And You Shall Know Our Velocity by the Trail of Dead.

― Prude (Prude), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

And yeah, that's a seriously lousy story. Cloying, fussy and precious -- but, ho ho, ironically so! He wanted to fly in lightweight contraptions with her. Because no one would really use the phrase "lightweight contraptions," except for writers! Ho ho! How clever of Dave! How self-aware! Because everyone knows it's impossible to say anything meaningful anymore! Ho ho! Not without undercutting your own impulse to make meaning! How corny! Ho ho ho!

― Prude (Prude), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

i think that's a misreading but i don't really like the story enough to argue in its favour -

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Jack Chick writes better 400-word pieces.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

surely the word is "draws"

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Jesus that story is in the exact opposite spirit from fuckin PBR. The coterie as a creative hub!? Fuck that shit!

― Dan I., Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

surely the word is "draws"

It's true that it does help him to draw the word "WHAAA?" in appropriate fashion.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I guess I'm not responding to this piece so much as the McSweeney's aesthetic as I understand it. I was feeling cranky, too.

― Prude (Prude), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

basically i think it's non-ironically cloying, fussy, and precious

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:26 (twenty-two years ago)

if it were ironic it might stand more of a chance of getting away with the wildebeest, though.

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:26 (twenty-two years ago)

the McSweeney's aesthetic as I understand it. I was feeling cranky, too.

Careful -- the two feed off of one another.

― m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:34 (twenty-two years ago)

so, what'd y'all think of rising up and rising down?

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm waiting for it to come out in paperback.

― m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

b-b-but it'll be ABRIDGED

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

(can't blame you)

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, if Eggers' paperback versions are any indication, there'll be even more Vollman. The creepy thing is that Rising Up comes after something like three 500+-page books in five years or something. I know there's not a whole lot to do outside of Sacramento, but sheesh.

― m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the seven dreams narratives and rising are things he's been working on since the mid-80s, though. so it's really two 3000-page projects worked on simultaneously over two decades plus some other things, which is still sort of insane

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 00:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I wanted to say "Tom OTM" about Prude's comments, above, but then I got distracted and it's much too late now. But I like the anagramminess of "Tom OTM" so I'm going to say it anyway.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 28 March 2004 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Staggering Genius, or what I could read of it, actually made me angry about Eggers' very existence. That's never happened to me before.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 28 March 2004 01:45 (twenty-two years ago)

why, i'm flattened.

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

my question theoretically was "why has the guardian just noticed this?"
but i suspect my question is "should i subscribe to mcswys?"

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I wanted to say "Tom OTM" about Prude's comments, above, but then I got distracted and it's much too late now. But I like the anagramminess of "Tom OTM" so I'm going to say it anyway.

B-b-b-but I'm not Tom! Am I still OTM?

― Prude (Prude), Sunday, 28 March 2004 01:34 (twenty-two years ago)

no.

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Dang.

― Prude (Prude), Sunday, 28 March 2004 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

you could be perdu.

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 01:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, considering my last name is Purdy, I'm almost there as it is!

― Prude (Prude), Sunday, 28 March 2004 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

You sure do got a purdy face.

No, you shouldn't subscribe to McSwy's. The first few issues were pretty exciting but it stopped being interesting somewhere between issues 5 and 7. Although who knows if the upcoming Chris Ware comix issue will be any good?

Some of the books are worth grabbing, though, especially the Lydia Davis.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 28 March 2004 02:32 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread already made me get out my copy of the lydia davis. hourah!

sure about mcswys? howabout the believer? they're kinda cheap, strong pound and all

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 02:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't read the Believer, but flipping through it was uninspiring. I dunno, how much do you like Hornby?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 28 March 2004 03:20 (twenty-two years ago)

detest the bugger

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I will spare Eggers' life for putting out Rising Up and Rising Down which I am way too fucking busy to actually read all of but the three volumes (of 7) that I've gotten through are great.

Heartbreaking Work etc makes me see red, it really makes me want to kill: I feel there is this gulf between me and the segment of humanity that somehow think it is a good book. This article is fucking terrible too. I wish they'd leave DFW out of these things. Sure he's pretentious and his math book is terrible and Broom of the System is wretched but at least he's entertaining--and where did this idea of Infinite Jest being a difficult book come from? It's long, yes. Very long. But it's not The Recognitions or G-Rainbow or anything like those. It's breezy and jokey and pleasant. If IJ is the GR/etc for my generation than my generation is getting off really easy. Which is cool I suppose.

― adam (adam), Sunday, 28 March 2004 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris Ware, how v surprising

― Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 28 March 2004 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't read this yet, but wasn't there a huge story in the New York Times Magazine about a year ago about PBR called "The Marketing of No Marketing"?

― jaymc (jaymc), Sunday, 28 March 2004 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, right, that's mentioned in the first graf. Nevermind.

― jaymc (jaymc), Sunday, 28 March 2004 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought gravity's rainbow was easier to manage, but i read it a couple years later, i dunno

i do think it's a terrible article, that's why i thought it was amusing, i thought the article was terrible enough that i didn't have to point out it was terrible, nevermind

how far does this coterie actually stretch? michael moorcock at one end, say, who's the furthest point away from him

― tom west (thomp), Sunday, 28 March 2004 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

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"Making enquiries around student bars and "bike-messenger hangouts" in Portland, Oregon, they discovered that the people who had started drinking PBR - who had "embraced the brand" - were also the ki