They think they're being ironic but they're not.

Can irony itself be enjoyed ironically? No, wait..

I think I like to be irony free. I'm not afraid to admit to liking stuff.

down with irony! down with irony!

james I like you.

you are cool rainy! i likes ya!

uh//alanid morrisette?

Who knew that Graham lived in a disco porn movie? Surely you should be videotaping them and selling copies on the Internet?

There was a brief period of time when I genuinely liked the Spice Girls. I then realized that my favorite things about them were the asinine things they'd say in interviews and the love affair ended.

um graham
i am doing some vaugely related art thingy and need pictures of it

fuck irony. i never made no pretenses about genuinely liking the spice girls...or westlife... or the backstreet boys... or 5ive (what a crime they've split!)...or blue... or boyzone... or shayne carter.

5ive: "gotta keep on, keep on rockin" or perhaps not.

Dan, I so do. Apparently one of them flashed their knob at me, though I didn't (attempts at spreading slanderous gossip to the local ladies about not being able to see it were folied when I remembered he's already bedded most of them. He is Italian). And Sara's mate came around and flashed her breasts and stole my boxer shorts.

Antony, I'll have my camera ready next time. I'm sure if I tell tem some gay Canadian guy I met on the internet wants them they'll put on another performance (Either that or leave more vodka and coke laying about the place).

whats more worrisome gay or canadian

Bah. Cantankerous and tired me thinks this demonizing of irony is played out. It has it's good points. The world isn't all black and white, likeable or unlikeable after all. And isn't irony (as discussed here anyway) just a natural way of sidling up to the good aspects of something residing in a grey area? It lets you forgo the boxes.

If it's so hated because so many people are doing it (as a stupid trendy thing) thinking they're all clever and shit - that it makes them fit in, in a good way, well then there's a pure pop culture phenomenon for you - so then isn't it ironic to dismiss irony because it "criticizes" what's popular?

I need sleep. Real bad.

"Met on the internet", possbly.

I don't believe in irony and I think people who like things falsely are fuckheads. I love everything.

I think Ally just has a finely tuned sense of irony.

I'm not being ironic though. I'm never ironic, I hate rain on wedding days and I never pay for my free rides, etc.

Yeah, but it depends. I mean, it is possible to enjoy only certain aspects of a thing, but take some major umbrage with the other bits of it - so whatcha gonna do? Options are pretty limited - you can ignore the bits you don't like and say that you like all of it, full stop (a lie), or you can do the opposite and totally blow off something that has at least a few redeeeming features (also a lie), or you can waive comment on it all together (cop out) - or finally, you can qualify your verdict of like or dislike with some nod to the other qualities that don't fit. This is expression closest to truth, and irony *does* this, or can do this - albeit in a dangerous fashion that sometimes strays into too genuine mockery and disrespect which I expect is the bit that grates on the nerves and would be the way of the "fuckheads". So anyway...

Everything in that Alanis Morrrisette song is not ironic, just unfortunate.

it's like rain on your wedding day, if you've put off the wedding several times because of bad weather and if you are marrying a famous meteorologist who has spent some considerable time working out the best time for fine weather, and then to be sure you've relocated to Death Valley for the reception.

Yeah Kim but why can't you just express genuine but qualified liking? I still don't see the need for irony to come into it - irony as it generally is expressed tends to be a get-out for people who feel guilty about liking something 'lowbrow' or 'beneath them'.

Tom: doesn't that imply that irony is a specific response to one particular object? I tend to think of it as a more generalised (and nuanced) stance evolved in relation to a wider cultural climate (the annexing of identity to lifestyle/increasingly 'telling' cultural choices, etc) - maybe an attempt to mark out a safe space from which to negotiate a position?

Otherwise: what Kim said. Blanket anti-irony is as bad as the opposite. I need my defence mechanisms, dammit!

I see what you're saying Ellie but I think irony has served as a tool in the annexing of culture and lifestyle you're talking about. The space irony opens up seems to me by its nature entirely unsafe.

is irony beneath you Tom?

if i get Tom right, it's not that irony is "low" it's just that liking something cos it's so bad it's good (which i think is generally what people mean) is a stance to allow you to enjoy something without being uncool for it.

so i'd agree fuck trying to be cool, either like something or not damnit. a pop song that was written to be catchy and likeable and (gasp) sell is something you can enjoy regardless of if it's technically sophisticated or has clever musical tricks in it. it's OK to like songs like this honest. all the irony get out is to allow you to post saying i like x poppy song, and someone else posting back "yeah, but they're shit aren't they". like that matters.

Irony = Classic

Irony as an affectation, as a concious excuse ("ha! I was just being ironic") = Dud

Well of course a person can do that Tom. It's just that doing that forces you to confront and mention directly the bits of it that you honestly don't enjoy, so it kind of takes the wind out of your sails and is a big spoiler if you're just trying to enjoy the good parts. Fooling oneself isn't inherently wrong. You say it's unsafe, ok yeah sure 'tis, but that's exciting and everyone knows excitement=F U N. A dangerous tool in the wrong hands, perhaps, but I'm not sure I see what's so wrong with what it's done to culture either. Unless I'm missing what you're saying that is. I mean, as far as what's considered strictly "cool", things seem more open and undefined now than they ever have during any other time that I can remember. I suppose I might be projecting maturity on the current youth reality, but I doubt it - in my high school it would have been, crossover - what the hell for? You know that episode of the Simpsons where the Homerpalooza concert kid doesn't even know if he's being ironic anymore? Some people think that's so damning, but I actually don't. It's not so great to actually feel confused as an individual, but I think a lot of good things can come from conflicted groups. Diversity fosters creativity, and all that. The fact that these static barriers between cool and uncool have broken down into such an unsure mess is great. There's a certain new freedom that it offers. Of course there are so very many fuckheads that always have and always will choose to conform to a comfortable and safe standard, and thus they begin to copy one another - even if that means miming something highly individualistic that they don't really understand. Instead of using irony as a tool, they are caught within it. Their own actions being so very ironic. Ok, so now I admit that the Simpsons thing was a *little* damning. ;)