Your girlfriend offering to give you a handjob when she can't be bothered to have sex with you: classic or dud?

AKA "I am (really, really, really gay)/(a refugee from 1066)." [delete where applicable]

not that george is a prize either, so how about a pox on both etc.

I think the issue here is the word "lots". Dumbass.

i love this:

women are not comfortable with men they can manipulate

not only is it untrue but it's like the best accidental pun EVAH

Great, just what we ladies want, a contolling aggressive crass buffoon. Yawn. That'll have us dropping our panties quicker than you can say 'wifebeater'

because i've known more than a few

(a lot of them cokeheads!)

xpost with ronan, exactly

being in an abusive relationship with a crazy person is awful and harrowing but it also makes the world a much simpler place while you're in it (like living in a monarchy!)

i know shitloads of women and men who seek those situations out because feeling helpless and victimized scares them less than actually taking control of their lives

and no matter how much you help them, they'll always go back to bad situations until THEY decide they want out

doesn't mean you shouldn't help them, though

and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean that all abused people are in that boat, though a fair number of them are

donna how hard is it to say "four-ee-oo-five-hnnn-itty-wuh-goo"?

I think we should just mock George from here on out.

This was my attitude for a while -- minus all the pretentions and demeaning rhetoric of the above statement.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a relationship purely on your own standards, as long as it is indeed clear to her (or him or it or whatever) that a) this will be a very short term thing if he/she thinks otherwise, and b) he/she has the same exact attitude towards others.

But it becames a problem and grey area when you don't care enough to be friends with her/him first, or at least be respectful and empathic and easy-going, and find out if he/she's rather fragile, undecided, etc. It's easy to say "well, that's not MY problem", but if you're reciprocating any sort of possible close engagement with somebody, fragile or not, even just for one night of sex, well guess what, it IS your problem too, if emotions go awry. (Not saying you're not disrespectful or uncaring, George, although the way you've been stating things on this thread makes me think otherwise for the time being)

That said, i'm slowly getting back into feeling that an LTR will really calm me down, and am slowly and patiently looking -- being picky as hell of course, but now looking a little bit more...

Girls are just things that are sweet and take three minutes and twenty seconds of my time. Hmmm, you may be on to something.

Donut, I thought you were talking about Lord of the Rings for a second.

??????

Anyway, the reason why i thought george's statement felt demeaning was the "It may be difficult for you to understand" kickoff, which is just a fucking rude way to begin a retort. Also, "I can keep 2 or 3 of these type of relationships going at any point in time", sounds a bit like he's treating girls like an assortment of chocolates or spinning tops.

(Don't get me wrong, I know plenty of girls who do that to guys too. I dated one of them, and found out the hard way)

(though i wish that you and others were as industrious at vetting some of the other posts that get made around here)

george is too busy with his harem to listen to us!

xpost hucklebuck i almost sprayed coffee all over my laptop you bastard

not the abuse, but the fact that the person they're with scares them and is unpredictable, which keeps the butterflies alive in a really fucked-up way

i don't disagree with the rest of what you're saying and i'm totally familiar with battered woman syndrome but i think it's sometimes more complex than just "the abuser beats the abused person until they lose their ability to etc"

my parents had a really fucked up relationship and my father used to hit my mother (and she would sometimes hit him too)

but the other thing i saw firsthand is watching her deliberately provoking him and belittling him, trying to get him to explode so she could be a martyr

when we were in family counseling she admitted this and said something like "i guess inside i thought, either way i win: if he hits me, he's the bad guy and if he doesn't, i'm on top"

which flabbergasted the shit out of all of us, but that's the kind of admission that led them to patch things up and they've been strong, non-violent and basically healthy ever since

(which also flabbergasted the shit out of all of us)

so the dynamics of these things are sometimes a little more complicated than good guy/bad guy, abuser/abused, etc.

Handjobs are ok by me! But you know, it'll never compare to me doing it myself because I have a lot more practice.

I'm currently in the middle of something at work and unable to respond as quickly as I'd like, but I have plenty more to say and will address individuals here again when I have time....

Let me just say briefly: Male display of the virtues self-confidence and assertiveness is the biggest trigger for female lust. (Somehow in my effort to convey that display as my mode of operation, I've been painted as physically and/or abusive, which is furthest from the truth. When you need to resort to violence to resolve a situation, you've lost control. I don't like to lose control.) Women will periodically do or say things to provoke a demonstration of those virtues, such as the bullshit test which is the topic of this thread. If you fail such a test, she loses some or all of her desire for you. Women will test men like this every step of the way to the bedroom.

Basically my attitude is, this is my world, you are invited to be a part of it at my discretion. These are the rules, stay if you like, leave if you like. I always mention that I am seeing other girls and not interested in an LTR at the moment. I never deceive a girl by telling her I'm in love with her just to get her in the sack. I am respectful and honest in my discourse and I demand the same in return.

when we were in family counseling she admitted this and said something like "i guess inside i thought, either way i win: if he hits me, he's the bad guy and if he doesn't, i'm on top"

This has been the situation I have put myself in in every single long term relationship I've ever had (though not so bad as hitting--just dicky behavior, anger, fighting) and I've actually pretty much never seen anyone put this into words bluntly like this. I've been thinking about it a lot recently because I've started doing it again, getting irrationally irritated at things that don't even make any sense to get upset over, just to see how far it can go, whether or not he will come back.

This has nothing to do with handjobs/blowjobs/abusers/abusees/fuckin' da laydeez, but this is the first time I've click on ILX in a while and was stunned to read this, about three hours after I just made an appointment with a psychiatrist to try to FIX this (I don't just do it to boyfriends, though it is more severe with them).

Also, george's attitude is A) reminiscent of mine about two years ago, maybe three now B) reminiscent of a man I once dated. He doesn't behave that way anymore because I played the game back and apparently it affected him badly. Fair warning, georgio.

Well there must be other 'triggers' too then because I've managed to have sex with limited self-confidence and almost no assertiveness to speak of. Maybe some women (or people in general) are attracted to men (or people in general) who do their best to not be manipulative assholes who just want to get some sex and be done with it. I don't know, just a thought. I mean, I am getting pretty hot just reading what George has to say and seeing how alpha male he is so I am probably wrong.

(sorry to interupt the masturbation jokes, carry on)

There are a lot of issues here that I've never encountered in a relationship, so I'm having a hard time relating to them. Particularly the whole "women withhold sex" thing.

haha now you know why i post anonymously! (to say things bluntly that is)

seriously, anon psuedo reg, if that was helpful for you, i'm really glad and it makes me glad i waded into this mess

because you're right, people NEVER talk about that side of things, i think because it's so hard to do without sounding like you're "blaming the victim" and being demonized

christhamrin, you're right of course, but i think that when you're talking about women who are conventionally attractive and fairly mainstream, the whole display-of-power thing is often really effective (depressingly so); confidence, assertiveness, money, all these things mean "power" and we know what kissinger said about that

(the contempt/disinterest thing too since i think many women are so used to being hit on that having a guy who acts distant can be a refreshing change)

male displays of power are integrated into almost every aspect of conventional/mainstream courtship, and many women regard them as a dealmaker/breaker (cubic zirconia to thread)

i can't blame them really since whether it's instinctive or rational it makes sense in a way: who's better at protecting you? your family? your children? the skinny pasty guy who can't sell a painting, or dirk mcrocket, the astronaut with a chin of gold?

the good news is that there are plenty of smart, sane unconventional beauties out there who like to love, like to fuck, and don't spend their lives worrying about who's on top

(but they tend to have boyfriends!)

certainly people act manipulative and passive-aggressive all the time without being really aware they're doing it, and it's really hard to call them on it

(that's what makes it so fucking poisonous!)

the line between 'not being in the mood' and 'being pissed that i didn't get my way' is a very very fine one

really, it's more of a continuum

sometimes i think that monogamous relationships between the sexes are just fucked from the start because of this stuff

and yet believe it or not i've never really had anyone 'withhold' on me either!

xxxpost

though: have you ever not wanted to sleep with your girl, when she was willing, because of something she did?

(see i think guys don't do this often, not so much because they're hornier, but because they feel like sex is always a miracle that's never guaranteed to happen again)

(also i think women want sex just as much as guys, but i don't know any guy that can go without as easily as most women i know can, so i fear there's a bigtime power imbalance there)

People are so funny.

I don't even understand this thread anymore.

In my own experience, men seem happy to get any even if theyre sick, headcachy, drunk, exhausted, had a bad day, have a broken leg... nothing stops 'em getting the horn.

For many women though (certainly not all though) all it takes is something small to make you uncomfortable (bad day, bad mood, premenstrual/menstrual, headache [yes guys, a headache CAN be a real reason] and the very idea of sex flies out the window.

In which case HJs/BJs can be a nice compromise.

Or, here's a shocking thought - maybe the guy actually loves his girlfriend and doesnt need to have it proved with sex, OMG, who would have thought it.

All I know is one has to acknowldge we can have very different cycles of desire and horniness. If you can dig that with a partner and work with it, not against it, youre set.

(xpost thats for skottie)

er, yikes. i really, really have a problem with the idea of sex as an expression of love. the two are related, but one never assumes the other. not to me, anyway.

I'm kind of thinking about my ex, I guess, Trayce. She had all these conditions on when, basically, it wasn't disgusting to have sex, which eventually became never.

Of course I don't think that all women think this way, but I second Mr. surface noise's discomfort with equating sex and love. I don't think they (necessarily) have much to do with one another for men. Often they overlap, which is a bonus, but I don't think they're terribly related.