Rugby -- explain

Stick to football/ or "Soccer" as they say across the pond.

i didn't mean "fat" as in cuddly. i like cuddly men. oh god that probably just sounds even more offensive. i just don't like musclebound rugby guys.

*Not quite true as when I edited the sch. magazine we would get a constant stream of boring letters from old boys who had got together and played a game of this in unlikely places - the Kalahari Desert, Mt Everest etc. These generally got binned.

A good try is amazing to watch, timing, rhythm, pace, just the right amount of aggression. Rugby Union is where it's at clearly. Also Ireland are good at the moment and I forgot to laugh in the face of the English ILE people.

rugby involves wrapping gaffa tape aorund yr head, sticking yr face into another guy's butt, jumping aournd and then banging your body into a wall repeatedly... afterwards, the men piss over each other in the communal shower... simple really.

*bows* You were the only two NZ males I could think of offhand to borrow names from. I could call them Alistair and Michael if you like.

rugby involves wrapping gaffa tape aorund yr head, sticking yr face into another guy's butt, jumping aournd and then banging your body into a wall repeatedly... afterwards, the men piss over each other in the communal shower... simple really.

The underground porn market continues to widen.

My friend learnt our highschool's unoffical rule #1 of rugby in his first game, if it aint a lineout never ever jump. Popped his spleen, also ending his hockey career.

Funny thing about Nova Scoita is that everyone around here pretends their celtic but they dont play rugby, the people in British Columbia do though.

in Dunedin theres lots of boys who like rugby and when they hang out together they show their penises to each other and hump each other. This isn't just some fantasy of mine - i've seen it happen.

You've grasped the essence of it, Ned, for sure. Great game - (Union, not League), you don't need to to be huge to play, but you have to be strong for your size, and have enough muscle to protect joints, tendons etc from being ripped apart in contact. One of the the best things about the game is it's complexity and discipline, each position has core skills which you HAVE to be good at, but they're all different. For example centre needs strength in the tackle, pace over the ground, a side-step and fast hands to get the ball away in contact. Props need no neck, huge upper body and leg strength and a spinal column that can take the force of a small truck trying to rip it asunder.

The weakness of the game (Union variety) is the same as the strength - complexity. Some dumb rules, and far too many of them, mean that refereeing is inconsistent which leads to spectator and player frustration. Many of the subtleties of the game are also lost in huge pile-ups of bodies. The free-for-all punch-ups which were once part of the game have largely gone in the professional game now, with the introduction of the sin-bin. That's a shame!

So any got the dirt on this? The smugness of rugby fans has grown so exponentially in the last few years that anything that heaps disgrace on their stupid sport can only be a good thing.

Holed up at home during Superstorm Sandy I somehow ended up watching something on TV I've never seen before - Rugby Union. Now I'm intrigued enough about the sport to crave greater understanding of its basics. So if some fans out there could help me on a few points, thanks. I'm a Yank, but feel free to use your own terminology.

1. Once a tackle is made what's left for the tackler's teammates to do? It looks like there's often an initial attempt to snatch the ball off the ground that rarely works out, but just as often the defense don't bother to contest it and simply stand away in formation. When a defender decides to grapple and push an opponent I get that that's called a ruck but given that he can't pick up the ball or even reach it at that moment what's the point? And the guy who made the actual tackle is useless during this little window of uncertainty, I take it?

2. Sometimes a ball-carrier in flight gets tackled just before the try line and he's down but then he lurches forward enough to score the try. This kind of thing wouldn't be allowed in American football. What do the rules say here?

3. The player who rolls the ball into a scrum is supposed to roll it straight down the middle, right? But it looks plain to me that he will tend to roll the ball toward his own team and no one makes a big deal of it. Explain?

4. If I became a full-fledged fan of the game, would Gloucester be a good team to support? They looked energetic and crafty relative to some of the other teams I've watched. This is on Fox Soccer Plus where they show the Aviva League and also RaboDirect Pro12.

I'm a big fan, there aren't many on ILX, I think.

Let's start at 4 - personally, and I'm definitely biased but it's a common enough view, I'd avoid the English league. Their league is sort of known for blood and thunder drudgery.

I won't say the Celtic League is better, though I personally watch it as I am a fan of the Irish team, Leinster, but the Heineken Cup is the pinnacle of the club game at the moment in my view. It's the European competition with Irish, English, Scottish, French, and Italian teams. It's always really exciting. Maybe you don't have access though. I'd take a look at the Rabo though often it's not full-strength teams because of the Heineken Cup. Have a look at Leinster, they are considered one of the best club teams in the world at the moment after winning three of the last four Heineken Cups, though perhaps this season they're on the wane. disclaimer being obv that i am a big fan and go see them when I can.

this was a game last year where they were really at their best, magical stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69xdh1p7Mr8

3. This is a big bone of contention and often raised as a complaint, but nothing seems to be done to stop it.

2. You're allowed one movement after being grounded.

1. The tackler must release the ball when tackled (you've prob seen "holding on" being given as an offence) and his team mates then try to recycle it through the number 9, the scrum half.

It looks like there's often an initial attempt to snatch the ball off the ground that rarely works out

This might be the drudgery of the English game I referred to! Or you just got a bad game.

When a defender decides to grapple and push an opponent I get that that's called a ruck but given that he can't pick up the ball or even reach it at that moment what's the point?

they can move the ball with their feet, the idea is to get past the ball, if you follow me, and win possession. so ideally your team is first to the ruck or has more numbers and wins the ball and gains territory. does that make sense?

And the guy who made the actual tackle is useless during this little window of uncertainty, I take it?

I think it's a foul for the tackler not to roll away.

does that help at all?

In 1969 my high school PE teacher discovered rugby. Not that he knew any of the basic strategies or even most of the rules, but he was smart enough to realize it was more fun than calisthenics and required no specialized equipment other than a rugby ball. Consequently we all spent much of October and November hurling ourselves at one another's churning legs, scrumming inexpertly and getting godawful muddy.

It seemed like fun, as long as you didn't mind getting kicked a lot. As the youngest and probably skinniest participant, I was of two minds about that.

there aren't many more violent mainstream sports.

terrible boring sport

i spent several months during my first year at senior school trying to extricate myself from the rugby squad after misguided initial enthusiasm got me selected

i never played at senior school, it was way too big a deal and sort of annoying in that cultish rugby school way. played for my local team till i was about 13 then played football instead. i really enjoy watching it though.

some people just ended up being picked for the team all the way through school even though they hated it, i knew a kid who was about 6' and morbidly obese at the age of 13 and even though he had no athletic talent or interest at all, he got dragged along purely because he was about twice the size of all the other forwards

there was a lot of pressure put on at my school, but they stopped forcing people to play about a year or two before i joined. i remember this one friend of mine was one of those kids who is just blessed with a brilliance at all sports, and he hated rugby. they tried so so hard to get him to take it up.

Im not massively into it but I do enjoy watching the six nations tournament. The sport does suffer from too many rules and they seem to be coming up with new ones every year. Rucks seem to be non-existent in the modern game as well.

LocalGarda, this is very helpful. To follow up, in a ruck, to "get past the ball" and to "gain territory" means to push forward far enough that someone then can kick the ball to someone else? At first no one on the defense is allowed to handle the ball and then at some point they are - this is slightly confusing.

I'm trying to catch all the Celtic League teams at least once - haven't seen Scarlets or Ospreys yet; Ospreys is a cool name, so they're promising.

I don't see the Heineken Cup on the Fox Soccer Plus schedule, although they are showing the LV Cup, curiously.

The ball is declared "out" at some point, you'll hear the ref's mic saying this usually. The rules are definitely confusing, to the players too!

It's a pity the Heineken isn't on Fox, I guess somewhere US shows it. It is almost better than international rugby for me. Though I'd definitely watch the Six Nations if you can, in February.

I'm a big fan, there aren't many on ILX, I think.

Dr. C was yer man for the rugby

I'm Welsh so am immersed in rugby from an early age.

I don't quite get the boring sport comments to be honest. Any sport can be boring and I love football and rugby, but of the two, football throws up more boring, dreary games than rugby does.

Heineken Cup, Six Nations, Super 15 and The Rugby Championship (Four Nations) are the tournaments to watch though. The Pro 12 (Celtic League) really suffers from missing star players and teams generally not arsed until it reaches the latter stages and the English Premiership is quite often two teams trying to bludgeon each other to death.

yeah rugby is very entertaining and as you say groovypanda it's far more common to get a boring football match than a rugby one. except towards the end of a game when a team is leading and has possession and is trying to eat away time by just doing pick'n'go for the last 5mn. that has to be the most annoying thing about the game (though that might have changed, it's been a while since i got a chance to see rugby - since the world cup basically, and i'm still pissed off about that final)

Holy crap, there's rugby on my americanischer tv!

French team referred to as "horse burger" by George Hook and company on RTE. First time the French have lost back to back games in the Six Nations since 1982!

Fingers crossed for tomorrow. Hopefully we can play out of skins as per last week. England are pretty scary though. They have a young, strong team and powerful bench.

More McFadden, less D'Arcy IMHO.

The French team selection and tactics move me to total disgust. Michalak is such a fucking brat. How on earth is Parra left out? Both them and Wales were dire yesterday.

I think D'Arcy has had a good season this year and I'd still rather him to McFadden personally.

The weather is my biggest worry for today. If it's dry I think Ireland win by seven points or thereabouts, if it's rainy, as forecast, I think England will win.

It's raining and expected to stick for the day. Hopefully some of the old Munster will come through in these conditions and it'll be phase after muddy phase grinding down the opposition.

Just think rain probably means loads of scrums, which won't suit us, not that I fear a repeat of last year.

I'm also a bit wary of the whole 'win this and Grand Slam is ours!' mentality.

Heard Trevor Brennan on the radio earlier. Crazy to think it's been 5 years already.

four isn't it?

we're in a brilliant position if we win but of course it'll still be difficult.

I played all through school but haven't pain the least attention to rugby at any level for about 4 years. Decided yesterday to give it a go, but was pretty unimpressed by the standard in France - Wales. I'm really looking forward to the game this afternoon though.

Could anyone give me a little primer on the overall quality / recent form of the different teams? What sorta level are this England team at relative to the teams from 2003 and 2007, say? I understand Wales had been on a poor run until yesterday and I'm aware that we recently had a great win over the All Blacks, but was that game an anomaly or a sign of things to come?

*paid* sorry was reminiscing about my school rugby days

Zebo :(

Ireland are dropping the ball a lot.

yes, yes they are

Lots of unforced errors by Ireland. Not going to watch anymore. Will listen to it on radio as always. Far less stressful!

Ireland aren't going to have a team by the end of this

Where is this on in the US? Yesterday's game was on BBC America but I don't see Ireland-England anywhere.

Bugger. Was it the injuries? Was it condition? Possibly former was a factor (England bench was amazing) but latter? Didn't seem to have much effect on the English players. Quite disappointed, thought this would have been a win.

It was always going to be that way with the weather. England's gameplan is v tight and controlled and wouldn't have been much different even if it was dry. We play a v loose game and and we have a better backline, we played all the rugby today, which was the precise problem.

Was a day to kick for territory and benefit from the errors of the team who had the ball, our kicking from hand was mostly worse and Rog couldn't cope with their line speed.

Frustrating overall cos I think on a dry day we'd have won well.