This fucking hostage thing

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Let's talk please. On a purely human level this is hard to deal with.

Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

The three Japanese people?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

That's the bunny.

Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

*Sigh* I don't know what to say other than "eek".

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

A lot of the news agencys I'm looking around aren't even covering it. I don't know what it is about it (the emotiveness of the vid, the getting the guy to denounce his goverment at knifepoint, the WE WILL BURN THEM ALIVE AND EAT THEM bit, or the fact my dad goes to a lot of these part of the world a bit) but it's got me this one.

Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

background plz?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Agh. It really isn't being reported outside of the Beeb is it?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3611397.stm

This is the top story on BBC News ATM. I'm not seeing it ANYWHERE else.

Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

CNN is covering it as a sort of sideshow to their lead.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt Drudge has this near the top of his page, so expect the warbloggers to be all over by the end of the day.

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:31 (twenty-one years ago)

it's on cnn.com as the video link. right underneath 'Man to bet all on Vegas roulette spin'.

(Jon L), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't have TV, but just the still that I saw from the video was very disturbing, along with the threat to burn them alive. Can't they at least just threaten to kill them? Yes, it would make a big difference to me whether I was killed quickly or burnt alive. (I am not being sarcastic.)

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

christ that video was a horrorshow. the captors screaming 'allah akhbar' at them while they squirmed in misery.

There's this thread aswell
What would Koizumi Do?

pete s, Friday, 9 April 2004 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Just for perspective, it is front page news here on The Age website. I hadnt heard abt it til this thread. God this war's getting nasty.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/09/1081326910430.html

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 9 April 2004 01:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I think I saw Matt Drudge on the street today.

hstencil, Friday, 9 April 2004 04:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Why did you leave him with his gonads intact?

Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 9 April 2004 06:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I wasn't absolutely sure it was him.

hstencil, Friday, 9 April 2004 06:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Then you should've just knocked his fedora off and laughed at him

Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 9 April 2004 06:40 (twenty-one years ago)

it coulda been this other guy.

hstencil, Friday, 9 April 2004 06:45 (twenty-one years ago)

this story was near the top of the ABC nightly news last night, and likewise with CNN this morning (and I think it was in the news yesterday morning too, come to think of it). CNN says the Japanese troops are staying. I'm so sick over this. I'm afraid that we've gotten ourselves into a no-win situation, where if we withdraw we will be seen as weak and thus invite further attacks, and the only way to show strength would be to start something that would result in massive civilian casualties. I'm not for either one of these options but something must be done. I'm just angry that we've maneuvered ourselves into this corner in the first place.

teeny (teeny), Friday, 9 April 2004 09:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I normally wouldn't worry about a few lives since so many people get bombed and shit every day, but knowing there's going to be a new snuff video circulating the internet in a couple days is disturbing. Plus I can just imagine it already, so I hate these fucks for making me think of that shit.

Dan I. (Dan I.), Friday, 9 April 2004 09:48 (twenty-one years ago)

This is classic assymetric warfare. Look, it's horrible in a way that even surpasses "normal" war-deaths, but if your enemy is outnumbered 78462629000000000 to 1, he's going to do things that 1) remove the imbalance of physical force from the equation and 2) make things just as gut-wrenching as possible for you. These fuckers almost HAVE to do this kind of stuff in the kind of war they're fighting.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 9 April 2004 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)

There are many levels of charade here. Japan sent a handful of 'monitors' to Iraq to placate the Bush regime, despite the fact that to send soldiers to a war is against its own (US imposed) constitution. That's charade number one.

Now some of these 'monitors' (they do all seem to be peaceniks, from the BBC's description of them; they're helping street kids and taking photos and measuring radioactivity levels) have been captured. The demand is that the Japanese government withdraw its troops from Iraq by lunchtime Sunday or these hostages will be 'eaten'.

Now, this may or may not be a 'charade'. It probably isn't. These three people are as good as dead already. But the demand is a charade. The real desire of the Iraqi resistors is to get a compelling story on networks around the world, to issue a graphic warning to all those who collaborate with Bush. Pour encourager les autres.

The terrorists know their immediate demands won't be met. The Japanese government would lose credibility if it backed down, and the terrorists would lose credibility if they backed down. (Credibility is unfortunately equated on both sides with the firm intention to take life rather than to let live.) Imagine a scenario in which the Japanese government pretended to be withdrawing from Iraq, got its three monitors back, then said 'Ha ha, fooled you!' and sent everybody back in. It's not going to happen, is it? Because this stand-off is all about image. It's not about saving lives. It's about sending a clear, strong message. 'Back off.' That message will be heard as a result of this.

Street opinion in Japan is of course horrified, but at the same time stoical. Nobody wanted to send Japanese to Iraq, but now they are there, nobody wants or expects the government to back down. Or rather, the government will be expected to back down (or face down) in a quieter way in future cases where they're being strong-armed and jack-booted into doing things their own people don't want. This will happen in parliaments all over the world, not just in Japan. And in this regard, the terrorists have 'won'.

Momus (Momus), Friday, 9 April 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Six more foreigners reported taken hostage outside Baghdad. It's a catchy meme, and a highly effective tactic in the 'asymmetrical war'. Remember how the Iran hostage crisis brought down Jimmy Carter?

Momus (Momus), Friday, 9 April 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Wouldn't it be nice to hear some Iraqis publicly denouncing these acts? Like where are some of these people we are meant to be handing over control to?

bnw (bnw), Friday, 9 April 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

'handing over control'?

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Friday, 9 April 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

The Iraqis would like all the westerners to leave so they can get on with killing each other.

earlnash, Friday, 9 April 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Remember the soverign Iraq government? Coming to a theater near you on June 30th? Surely there must be some members who can stand up against Sadr?

bnw (bnw), Friday, 9 April 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

You mean like Chalabi who has apparently said that the US actions in Falluja are "illegal and completely unacceptable," for instance? Then again if you want to talk about Sadr in particular, this story might be of assistance, and might perhaps be extremely depressing.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 April 2004 15:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Sunnis & Shiites : USA :: Professor Xavier & Magneto : William Stryker

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 9 April 2004 15:16 (twenty-one years ago)

My heart goes out to the hostages and their families.
BUT
The cold truth is: If you are willingly travel to a war zone
you are either 1. a moron or 2. an incurable adrenaline-junkie
(if there's a difference).

Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Friday, 9 April 2004 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Like where are some of these people we are meant to be handing over control to?

I gather many of them are threatening to resign from the US lackey council if the marines don't stop smashing up Faluja. Given that the USA is going to be scarpering from Iraq with its tail between its legs in the next year or so I'd say they are taking steps to prevent themselves being strung up from lamp-posts.

DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 9 April 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

EXCUSE ME but it's going to be at least THREE years before we scarper from Iraq with our tails between our legs, thank you very much.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 9 April 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

You mean like Chalabi who has apparently said that the US actions in Falluja are "illegal and completely unacceptable," for instance?

Not that it makes much difference but that's not Chalabi's quote. I don't mind Iraqi politicians objecting to U.S. policies. It seems a smart way to maintain some credibility with the populace. I just wish they'd learn to speak out of both sides of their mouths like American politicians. They need to be more vocal and visual in upholding the law. Like why don't I hear this type of outrage when Iraqi police stations are attacked?

bnw (bnw), Friday, 9 April 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

What are you talking about? We're NEVER leaving Iraq. Thats the whole point. We still have troops in Germany, Japan and Korea don't we? Thats why we withdrew all of those troops from Saudi Arabia. We need a new base in the Middle East.

And with all these recent developments I wouldnt be surprised if it turns into something like Guantanamo.

bill stevens (bscrubbins), Friday, 9 April 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

(bill shhh!)

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 9 April 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I heard that.

Momus (Momus), Friday, 9 April 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Iraq will also sport the world's largest U.S. embassy (if it doesn't already). I hope the population recognizes what an honor that is.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Friday, 9 April 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Will we also be giving them Faygo?

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 9 April 2004 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Whee!

Ghazi Ajil al-Yawer, a Sunni Muslim member of the Iraqi Governing Council (IGC), said he was ready to resign if the US did not seek a peaceful solution to the crisis in Falluja.

"How can a superpower like the US put itself in a state of war with a small city like Falluja? This is genocide," he told AFP news agency on Friday, the first anniversary of the fall of Saddam Hussein.

Fellow IGC member Adnan Pachachi said the Falluja offensive was "illegal and totally unacceptable" whilst Kurdish IGC member Mahmoud Uthman described US policy as counter-productive.

The Iraqi interim Human Rights Minister, Abdel Basit Turki, and a member of the Iraqi Governing Council's rotating presidency, Iyad Allawi, both resigned on Friday without giving a reason for their decision.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 April 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

It sounds like things are really going to shit over there in Iraq. You have to wonder how long this can keep up at the current rate before Bushco decide to send more troops over there. Maybe they're just hoping the whole thing will blow over and people will buy into the whole 'handover' exercise and settle down a bit - but it doesn't seem likely at this point.

o. nate (onate), Friday, 9 April 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

That it took this to happen for Bush to consider maybe more troops would be a good idea instead of the mad dash to Baghdad and "mission accomplished" approach is pretty maddening.

bnw (bnw), Saturday, 10 April 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

But perfectly to be expected, of course.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 10 April 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

This ain't shock and awe, this is... genocide.

Momus (Momus), Saturday, 10 April 2004 07:04 (twenty-one years ago)

As they pulled you out of the oxygen tent, you asked for the latest party.

Anyway thanks Momus for your kind words .. oh, about a year ago today. You posted some comforting thoughts on the eve of the Iraq war when I was in the throws of depression. I appreciated it.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 10 April 2004 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoever made that assumption about morons or adrenaline junkies above, I can tell you that this guy is definitely not the former, as I know him -- I worked with him helping street kids here in Canada. He might be the latter, though. He's been a committed child rights activist for 10 years (you have to be somewhat of a zealot to survive as an advocate for exploited kids for that long), so he may be fired by the flames of righteousness and all that, but I really hope to fuck he makes it home.

David A. (Davant), Sunday, 11 April 2004 03:35 (twenty-one years ago)

hopefully this bears fruit

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 11 April 2004 06:37 (twenty-one years ago)

BBC is saying the same.

Nik (Nik), Sunday, 11 April 2004 08:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't cry much, but this development has actually moved me to tears.

Momus (Momus), Sunday, 11 April 2004 08:58 (twenty-one years ago)

The group says:

— It will free the Japanese hostages in 24 hours in response to a call from the Islamic Clerics Committee for an immediate release.

— It has confirmed through its own sources that the three have not been cooperating with the occupation forces and were helping Iraqi citizens.

— It made the decision also out of consideration for the pain of the hostages' families and in respect of the Japanese public's stance toward the issue.

— It wants the Japanese public to pressure the Japanese government to withdraw its troops from Iraq because the dispatch is illegal.

— Japanese politicians do not represent the Japanese public but instead are agents for the criminals U.S. President George W Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

— The U.S. injured Japanese people by dropping nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The same thing is happening in Fallujah.

— It is not considering targeting foreign citizens.

— The holy war will continue until victory.

Momus (Momus), Sunday, 11 April 2004 09:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually finally saw the footage of the hostages tonight. I guess I had been ignoring broadcast news lately.

Fucking horrifying.

Broheems (diamond), Sunday, 11 April 2004 09:09 (twenty-one years ago)

The Australian Prime Minister is now arguing that the hostage situation is a good reason why the Opposition Leader is wrong to talk about setting a deadline for bringing Australian troops home because (allegedly) doing so would encourage terrorists to target Australians in subsequent hostage attempts.

It should go without saying that what I love about this war is that every single thing can be explained to suit five different political ends. It's like "Choose Your Own Ideological Spin on a Horrid Situation #45: You Are A Hostage!!"

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 11 April 2004 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

no release yet.... and more hostages

It is not clear what the seven Chinese men detained late on Sunday were doing in Iraq. Chinese sources say they did not work for the government. Chinese media report that the 10 Chinese companies doing business in Iraq have about 40 employees there.

But the BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes says that, until now, China appeared to be the country least likely to have citizens kidnapped in Iraq. Beijing opposed the war and has no troops in the country.

Japan, on the other hand, has 550 troops in Iraq, carrying out humanitarian work, and the kidnappers have demanded that the soldiers be withdrawn.

OTHER FOREIGN HOSTAGES
Nabil George Razuq, 30, Palestinian aid worker
Fadi Ihsan Fadel, 33, Canadian aid worker
Thomas Hamill, 43, US civilian worker

Nik (Nik), Monday, 12 April 2004 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

The original three Japanese hostages have been freed.

(I wonder who shot the Iranian diplomat and if they knew who he was.)

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm so relieved that they were released, it looked so grim for a while

i'm starting to see this conflict from the POV of the iraqis fighting, in various ways, against the occupation, i must admit

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

they killed an italian though.

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, my roommate told me about that, what are the specifics?

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3628977.stm

teeny (teeny), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Apparently, Japanese coverage of the hostage crisis was utterly wall-to-wall. [darren saint etienne (who was in Japan last week) to thread.] My wife says that some Japanese actually turned against the families of the hostages, due to the saturation coverage. The missus reckons that aid workers are held in fairly low esteem in Japan, below merely do-gooder status. Some Japanese internet sites have even suggested that the whole affair was staged. This sounds like a conspiracy theory too far, but it shows how low their stock is.

Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Monday, 19 April 2004 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Last week I was asked to go and work in Baghdad, I said no.

Ed (dali), Monday, 19 April 2004 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

The aftermath of this is sad to me.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/23/international/asia/23JAPA.html

Freed From Captivity in Iraq, Japanese Return to More Pain
By NORIMITSU ONISHI

TOKYO, April 22 — The young Japanese civilians taken hostage in Iraq returned home this week, not to the warmth of a yellow-ribbon embrace but to a disapproving nation's cold stare.

Three of them, including a woman who helped street children on the streets of Baghdad, appeared on television two weeks ago as their knife-brandishing kidnappers threatened to slit their throats. A few days after their release, they landed here on Sunday, in the eye of a peculiarly Japanese storm.

"You got what you deserve!" read one hand-written sign at the airport where they landed. "You are Japan's shame," another wrote on the Web site of one of the former hostages. They had "caused trouble" for everybody. The government, not to be outdone, announced it would bill the former hostages $6,000 for air fare.

...

Grasping Japan's attitude toward them, the hostages found themselves under crushing pressure, Dr. Saito said.

According to him, Mr. Imai, the 18-year-old former hostage, registered a high blood pressure reading. Ms. Takato, who had a pulse rate of over 120 beats per minute, kept bursting into tears. When the doctor told her she had done good work in Iraq, she cried convulsively and said, "But I've done wrong, haven't I?"

On Tuesday, Ms. Takato used the tranquilizers Dr. Saito gave her and finally left Tokyo for her hometown in Hokkaido. Ms. Takato, the news media reported, expressed fear about returning to her family home, but she may as well have been talking about returning to Japan. "I feel like going back home quickly, but I'm also afraid of going home."

morris pavilion (samjeff), Friday, 23 April 2004 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

yay! every culture on the planet is fucked!

Kingfish Disraeli (Kingfish), Friday, 23 April 2004 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I admit I'd like to see Momus try and defend this...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 23 April 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

god damn, is that thing about the government true?

ned otm

amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 24 April 2004 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

It's one of those sausage egg and chips things.

Ed (dali), Saturday, 24 April 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I admit I'd like to see Momus try and defend this...

Oh, you know, Japan has to perserve its specialness at all costs, needs of the many over those of the few, can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs, what's a few brutalized human beings amongst friends, etc.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Saturday, 24 April 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks, I feel better already.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 April 2004 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

eleven months pass...
http://www.wonkette.com/politics/abcnews.jpg

Worst Banner Ad of the Day.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

five years pass...

so apparently one of the 7 people killed in the manila hostage incident worked at my university. jeez.

dayo, Thursday, 26 August 2010 05:06 (fifteen years ago)

one year passes...

https://twitter.com/#!/hullstephen

happening now.

Mark G, Friday, 27 April 2012 13:06 (thirteen years ago)

being followed here
london

ILX uh-huh-uh uh-huh uh-huh BEEP BOOP BOOP BEEP (snoball), Friday, 27 April 2012 13:44 (thirteen years ago)

seven years pass...

happy 40th!

https://i.imgur.com/FEBgcpg.jpg

mookieproof, Monday, 4 November 2019 18:12 (five years ago)


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