'Bin Laden' offers Europe truce

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Interesting development, if true - (a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3627775.stm" target="new">see here

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Oops, crap HTML but it works I tell you

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Anything to see Arsenal win the championship, presumably...

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont believe it

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:10 (twenty-two years ago)

That's right Bin Laden's a gooner isn't he?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:10 (twenty-two years ago)

he wouldnt do that. i just dont believe it

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Why not? Makes sense to me.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:11 (twenty-two years ago)

cause its like giving in.

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Makes sense for Bin Laden I meant

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:13 (twenty-two years ago)

The voice on the tape said that "the door is open" for about three months to forge a truce, although this could be extended. The truce itself would then begin when "the last soldier" leaves "our countries", it added.

So never, then.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:14 (twenty-two years ago)

its like Bin Laden is giving in

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Like the attacks on 'junior' members of the coalition in Iraq, the idea seems to be to isolate the Americans and make governments think that they could escape the kind of bombings in Madrid.

― winterland, Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Indeed

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:16 (twenty-two years ago)

"I'll stop bombing you if you do exactly what I tell you to" is Bin Laden giving in how, Cassadra?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:17 (twenty-two years ago)

it makes a lot of sense. By offerring a truce with Europe that doesn't extend to the USA he intends to split the enemy in two. This is good tactical thinking by Bin Laden.

― run it off (run it off), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:20 (twenty-two years ago)

..except there's no chance...

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:21 (twenty-two years ago)

hes offering a truce!!!

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I was surprised how all the news networks in England were presenting this as a 'truce'. Like Matt says it could easily be re-cast as an ultimatum, "unless you withdraw from Arab lands we will bomb you like we bombed Spain". My guess is by the tea-time news this is how it'll be presented.

― winterland, Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:22 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe......who knows. let him bomb them

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Equally, viewed as an ultimatum its a message over the heads of politicians (he knows full well Blair will do no such thing as pull all troops out of Iraq, let alone the rest of the Middle East) to the population in general.

From the point of view of the man on the street - taking sides: major bomb attacks in the heart of your capital city vs military presence in a country thousands of miles away that you will never visit and probably couldn't care less about*. That's what Bin Laden's banking on.

*(Until petrol prices start going up, obv.)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Blair's a lost cause, that's for sure, I'm sure Bin Laden's aiming at the rest of Europe

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:28 (twenty-two years ago)

it could be Greece next. what with the olympic games?

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:30 (twenty-two years ago)

it's a good "psych op", isn't it

― run it off (run it off), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Shows the old psychopath still has his finger on the pulse

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

perfect facilitation to increase us/europe disharmony, spilt the enemy

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

yep. why wouldnt he. its a golden opportunity for him

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i meant the 'truce', not the olympics specifically

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Doesn't sound like his M.O. .. I thought he wanted to kill everyone who isn't a muslim. Why would he give Europe a break?

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 15 April 2004 10:59 (twenty-two years ago)

the idea must be to split 'Old Europe' up further from the US/UK as it's extremely unlikely Blair is going to distance himself from the US more and surely AQ figure this.

they really need to get a new picture of Bin Laden tho. and preferably some footage where he actually looks evil for once as the constant shots of him smiling almost benignly must really irritate the Western news-merchants. curiously Sky translated Allah as God when displaying the message on the tape as scrolling text, as if this would confuse non-Muslims, presumably.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:08 (twenty-two years ago)

shouldn't the thread title be "'Bin Laden' 'offers' 'Europe' 'truce'"?

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha! Yes, that thought occurred to me too. Perhaps I've been spending too much time in your company.

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:13 (twenty-two years ago)

but i dont see this as giving europe a break, dave? it is merely divide and conquer (and as the demands wont be met to AQs satisfaction, the truce is merely hypothetical anyway)

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

the idea of 'truce' being the key, rather than 'truce', it can be a powerful image

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:32 (twenty-two years ago)

he wouldnt do that. i just dont believe it

You're in love, what would you know?

― 39 Steps + 40 Winks (39 Steps + 40 Winks), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:42 (twenty-two years ago)

With Bin Laden? Well he has a handsome aspect, no doubt about that.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:43 (twenty-two years ago)

.. I see where it could be a strategy, but it doesn't seem to fit with bin Laden's (for lack of better word) ..ideals. It doesn't seem like he would ever say "we will stop killing your people."

xxp

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I think all that "all he wants to do is kill non-Muslims" stuff is all rather glib - there's a lot more to it than that.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:46 (twenty-two years ago)

lol. im not in love with bin laden

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

"There's a lot more to it than that"

Yes, he also wants to kill Muslims who don't subscribe to his version of Islam.

― Nemo (JND), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, let's reduce it all to a theological debate, it's easier to deal with that way

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

He's the one who is reducing everything to theology.

― Nemo (JND), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Next you'll be telling me that Palestinian suicide bombers only carry out attacks so they can't get their jollies with those 72 virgins in heaven

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

You can read their minds, then, can you?

― Nemo (JND), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Let me guess - you can. Thought so

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

No. I can't. I just take them at their word. And usually what they say is that they are doing it to achieve martyrdom. Why should I assume they're lying?

― Nemo (JND), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

And why are they trying to achieve martyrdom?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

To rock the vote?

― Nemo (JND), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

OK skip it, that's obviously too difficult a question - let's go back to the 72 virgins schtick

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not saying that there isn't a political context, which is what you're getting at, just that there's also a context of religious fanaticism which it is equally ridiculous to ignore.

― Nemo (JND), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Who's ignoring it? Not me. And who's ignoring the political context? Probably not you but definitely too many other people.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe if Ally Q demonstrated an ability to hit London/Rome/Paris there may be more pressure but having only hit Madrid in Europe...

I cant see it working as a "truce," it's no-more than a veiled threat.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally Q to thread

― the bluefox, Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think it's totally religious - there definitely are politics behind it.. but bin Laden seems to stay true to his message .... is what I meant... Whatever his motivation may be, he has been very consistent in his propaganda of Jihad.. Calling a truce does not seem consistent with that. "If you're nice to me, I won't kill you" doesn't seem to fit in. I think "We are focusing on killing Americans right now. When we are done with that, we shall focus on Europe" .. seems more like what he would say.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Jihad is a complex concept - tho admittedly perhaps not as pursued by Ally Q!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I do think that many people in the West tend not to take the religious aspect of this seriously, though. We can't really imagine that an idea of the afterlife could be the primary motivation for people, since it's not for us, and just assume that it's a "reflection" of some other, "more real" condition, like politics or economics. But yes, you're right, many people ignore the political context, too.

But I was really just trying to make a somewhat tasteless joke. My apologies.

― Nemo (JND), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:34 (twenty-two years ago)

..I knew that word would be trouble... It was a shortcut for "kill Westerners & ther sympathizers"

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:34 (twenty-two years ago)

No need for apologies, everyone here is somewhat tasteless

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Good luck defining Osama's "politcal context". It seems to conviently morph to justify whatever mass of civilians he has recently murdered.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Agreed, but I have similar problems defining political contexts when the US Army kills "masses of civilians"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

DON'T DO IT IT'S A TRICK!

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Is that comparison meant to prove something?

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

while the political context may or may not conveniently morph (depending on view), it surely has to be coherent and stable enough to attract people to it?

on the other hand, it would be quite surprising if political contexts of all players in this game hadnt morphed, there have been a number of huge events since 9/11, that have altered the context from all angles

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

and will continue to do so (the europe threat/truce thing being a case in point, an attempt to add new pages to the us-europe context)

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

what we have right now is the beginnings of a stateless, amorphus, ideolgically centered metawar.

scary times my friends.

― anthony, Thursday, 15 April 2004 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Make metalove not metawar.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Thursday, 15 April 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

what we have right now is the beginnings of a stateless, amorphus, ideolgically centered metawar.

the beginnings?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 15 April 2004 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

This 'offer' doesn't really contradict bin Laden's long term goal of killin' all the infidels. He implicitly reserves the right to recommence the bloodshed after three months. He figures, perhaps rightly, that three months of kidnappings, assassinations, and chaos in Iraq will be enough to permanently scupper its transition into the modern world which is all he really wants to do,in a way to us all, isn't it?

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Europe says no deal!!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/04/15/binladen.tape/index.html

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

If "Europe" had agred to the truce, would they have gotten to shake on the deal? Because that would have been a good time to pull a double-cross and kill bin Laden. Damn! so close....

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Al Queda isn't a unified organization so I don't know if a Bin Laden ordered 'truce' would make much of a difference anyway. The Spanish attacks, for instance, were by a Moroccan group that has their own grievances against Spain above and beyond Iraq.

― Tim Smoot, Thursday, 15 April 2004 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

and against jews purportedly. and they sold Ecstasy. i always knew that stuff was evil. (sorry don't have links handy)

― duke X, Thursday, 15 April 2004 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

the voice on the tape (sounds somewhat 'young' and uncertain based on what i've heard) effectively claims the Madrid attacks as it's own i.e. part of AlQ's broad strategy

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 15 April 2004 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

what's up with the namecheck of halliburton?

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 15 April 2004 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

claiming a classic western anti-war argument as his own, tainting by association those who've been using this argument?

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 15 April 2004 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

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