I Got Ta... Kn kn kn know what what's your fanta-ta-zeee

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Is "abusive" role-play in the bedroom bad or dangerous? Or is it a healthy way of processing unprocessable thoughts?

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's an OK way of processing entirely processable thoughts, like role- play anywhere it can be great and it can be excruciating. I wouldn't avoid it on principle. To be honest though I think masturbation processes these thoughts just as well.

― Tom, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wow, you can hold yourself down while you do it??

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't think anything's bad or dangerous as long as all parties are consenting.

― Samantha, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Okay. fantasies about rape, incest, or jailbait. healthy to pretend? good on ya? my gut says it's certainly better in the bedroom than on the street etc. and i do get off on some of this stuff with the right person. but the question is this: does this response cut its own legs out from under itself? if enacting these fantasies is "safe" you're saying that they obey their own limits, they keep to themselves, they are only in your mind. but fantasies shurely are "real" in their own way; even if all parameters are adhered to, they affect you and your life, else why have them? okay fine, the question is this: does enactment of fantasy expurge obv. "incorrect" thoughts or reinforce them?

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I say reinforce them, but I'm not going to elaborate.

― Sean, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sorry, I still don't understand why enactment should reinforce OR expunge, and I also fail to see why, um, 'solo' enactment is less relevant here than with-somebody enactment given that you're (hopefully) not actually acting upon the fantasies. A fantasy is a fantasy - a fantasy shared is more dangerous in that it can be used against you later.

The wider question - are fantasies dangerous? Well they can be of course - any thoughts are potentially dangerous if obsessed on too long and clearly an obsession with jailbait or rape is a lot more potentially harmful than a shoe fetish. But it's the obsessive quality that turns distasteful fantasies into dangerous fixations. Taboo sexual fantasies are in a special - though not exclusively sexual - class, in that they are fantasies that we do not actually want to be real. They go with fantasies of killing an enemy, or of dying - imagining the self in extreme situations. What good might these fantasies do? I'll have a think about it.

― Tom, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Then what's the enactment do? Nothing? Then why do it? I think people enact fantasies, i.e. become someone or some way that they aren't, in order to confront a difficulty that might be impossible as themselves. I think this is why we have plays and movies and rock bands. I think the only difference in the bedroom is that the audience is just the two of you - or three, or one. But it's still a kind of bearing down on a difficulty. I'm sorry I can't be more clear with the terminology. The reason I brought up expunge vs. reinforce: in drama, when a character homes in on a difficulty (in a good drama she'll do this on every line), it's either to expunge the problem or repeat it enough to reveal it in its glory in order for someone else to expunge it.

I s'pose you could argue that fantasies are not ways of confronting a difficulty but something a bit simpler, more carefree, "just a bit of fun". Sometimes they probably are. But a person who *requires* these fantasies is after something more i think.

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I guess you do the enactment because you have the opportunity to. I don't personally think it has any particular extra reinforcing or expurging qualities, though.

Ah no, actually, you do the enactment - involving one or more other people - because you want on some level approval for the fantasy, surely?

― Tom, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

something you enjoy doing in the bedroom with someone you care about and trust is not necessarily something you would find enjoyable outside the bedroom.

― di, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i mean its not necessarily something you would enjoy inflicting on somebody without their consent, or its not a secret you would like to share with just anyone.

― di, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

me thinks foucault said, in effect, establishing something as a taboo makes it instantly attracitive to break

― Geoff, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Actually it was Bataille who said that, who probably stole it from Durkheim.

― Pedantic Sociology Major, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But you're not specifically not breaking the taboo, you're flirting with it, re-creating it, rubbing up close to its limit, pushing it as far as it will bend. If it were as simple as "taboo... must break!" people would be running around smashing windows all the time and wearing navy blue jackets over black shirts. Hrm, come to think of it....

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

fantasies about rape,

if someone is fantasising about rape then it must be consensual so its not really a fantasy about rape.

― hamish, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is "abusive" role-play in the bedroom bad or dangerous?

No.

Or is it a healthy way of processing unprocessable thoughts?

Possibly.

― hamish, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

if someone is fantasizing about rape doesn't it mean they are fantsizing about the violation rather than desiring the physical act? They are not bound to actually wish to have the situation occur, the thought of rape just stimulates them.

crap , I have to go so I can't be coherent or justify myself right now. I am sure you will point out the flaws in my thoughts since I know nothing about it anyway

see you later on hamish

― Menelaus Darcy, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

why do i feel like fantasizing about raping someone = dud, whereas fantasizing about being raped is acceptable?

role-play of abusive sex is something is something i have engaged in. actually, with any partners i have done this with, it was pretty special, that i trusted them enough to engage in it with them, and they (i think) felt trusted and therefore pretty special too. sorry, "special" is such a lame word, its just a situation that is pretty difficult to express properly. i not only was getting off on the idea of breaking rules, but getting off on being with someone i trusted so completely.

― di, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i think it's the ocnception of agressor, of using force to violate someone that is the problem, as opposed to the thrill of being violated, perhaps you can only be sure of yr own reactions, rather than imposing them on others....

― Geoff, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like both roles but then I'm bad and I wear fishnets. Oh, and I'm all fucked up.

― toraneko, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

how's this for a theory:

people (especially women) are socialized to believe that sex is bad, dirty & wrong and wanting it makes us bad, naughty girls & boys so *fantasizing* about being forced assuages the guilt of wanting it ("s/he's making me do this! i have no choice. if i have no free will, how can I be morally culpable?") while simultaneously simulating punishment. see also philip larkin on mums and dads.

― fritz, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Di and Geoff are getting somewhere. Rape fantasy = loss of control within bounds. For people who have "issues" around control in their lives, it must be a sharp and liberating joy to be able to create a place with someone you can trust where you can relenquish control and decision-making.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

>>people (especially women) are socialized to believe that sex is bad, dirty & wrong and wanting it makes us bad, naughty girls & boys so *fantasizing* about being forced assuages the guilt of wanting it ("s/he's making me do this! i have no choice. if i have no free will, how can I be morally culpable?") while simultaneously simulating punishment. see also philip larkin on mums and dads.

maybe this is true in some cases, but it is certainly not true in mine. i am completely comfortable with wanting sex and i don't feel the need to be punished for it.

― di, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

what about verbal abuse? Perhaps that is a fantasy that is more likely to be carried out than rape. If someone is turned on by the idea of their lover calling them derogatory names does this mean they have some residual shame about their sex life? Or they are just turned on by the concepts associated with the generally sexual insults. The role of agressor in this case is more socially acceptable also- is it bad for someone to fantasize about verbally abusing their partner in the bedroom?

Sorry to cover turf that Di has talked about but I think there is a distinction- though insult etc is often a part of role play perhaps they can be separated and thought of differently to some extent.

― Menelaus Darcy, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If someone is turned on by the idea of their lover calling them derogatory names does this mean they have some residual shame about their sex life?

No.

Or they are just turned on by the concepts associated with the generally sexual insults.

Yes.

― hamish, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.