"Control your urgin', stay a virgin"

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The abstinence movement (or pro-abstinence sex education): classic or dud?

― Ellie, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I guess if someone wants to stay a virgin, that's fair enough.

― james, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Article from the Guardian a couple of weeks ago here http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4279976,00.html - sorry I'm can't make a link.

There are lots of urgent and key sociocultural issues caught up in this, not least gender ones - in the end it seems to be largely a feminine duty to Preserve Chastity (as in sex ed films of the 80s: 2 bowl cut teens in stripey knee-high socks; he says 'if you loved me you would'; she says 'if you loved me you wouldn't'). I'm liking the slogans v. much, tho, eg "don't be a louse, wait for your spouse".

Of my own and friend CMB's making: "Butt out, I don't put out", also "Get off my puddin', you're getting nuddin'". Any contributions to this small collection gratefully received.

― Ellie, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As someone who was abstinent throughout my teenage years through no will of my own, I find it hard to sympathise with people for whom sex apparently comes so easy. But yeah, I suppose DUD if it's all about lying to kids about what sex does. Great slogans though - much better than that drippy 'True Love Waits' shit from a few years ago.

― Nick, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nick: me too, pretty much, on your first point, and agreed. The True Love Waits thing was kind of the Barbara Cartland of chastity, all pink and romantic, and this is a more hardline, militant abstinence - which I guess could be quite empowering (although the costs in terms of alienation from your own body/sexuality and failure to provide basic education) seem potentially very unpleasant.

I wonder most what's going on with the parents/educators who are promoting this stuff. Are these the standards they live(d) by or are they just projecting some wistful misplaced desire for innocence onto these kids?

― Ellie, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

jess' screwing rules:

if you can not handle, emotionally or fiscally:

a. having a baby

b. aborting said baby (and let's not turn this into an ideological debate. thenk you in advance.)

c. putting said baby up for adoption

then you should not be fucking.

not to say that being unable to cope with some (or all) of those didn't stop me in the past (or now.)

― jess, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

'True Love Waits' -- so that's where Radiohead got the title from. I was rather wondering...

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

and yes, there should and are clauses for same-sex screwing, std's etc. but creating another life is probably more monumental than ending (or decreasing the quality of) your own.

― jess, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

True Love Waits/ Pure Love Alliance = devotees of rev. Moon = krazy kultists = stay the hell away from me freak!

― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i think it is dangerous because of its rejection of human sexaulity in all its fulidty and wonder . It tells you that yr implusses are wrong instead of telling you how to safely channel them. That and its rejection of queerness in total.

― anthony, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think if you're saying it to kids of a certain age, it's pretty classic. I know people who have been having sex since they were eleven, which seems to me to be a form of pedophilia and generally quite vile. If you can handle the responsibilities, I don't see the point in waiting until you get married, though.

That said, I guess it's good to teach abstinence in schools, because there are so many strict parents around who would have fits if the districts taught otherwise. It's still better to teach about birth control methods as well, though, because it is guaranteed that not all students will follow your advice and wait.

And I want some slogans! All we get around here is, "And what is the best protection of all? DON'T HAVE SEX!" *brooding glare shot around room*

― Maria, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

sex is for creeps.

― duane, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

there's plenty of ways a young person can get his/her kicks without having to touch anothere human being's disgusting corporeal corpus.

― duane, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

sniffing glue for inst.

― duane, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Perhaps the equal and opposite approach sloganwise would be "Trust your luck, have a fuck."

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Harass your virgin, keep on urgin.

― Ronan, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

follow the agenda of your pudenda

― maryann, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The great thing about the true love waits programme was that you could become a born again virgin again, and again and again.

― Menelaus Darcy, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The True Love Waits movement has resulted in a massive increase in anal sex amongst young christians.

― hamish, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sorry for mentioning anal sex yet again on ILE.

― hamish, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

hamish is a analist.

― duane, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh, well this could lead to another pesky argument on the definition of sex right?

aren't you an analist Duane?

― Menelaus Darcy, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

here was I thinking that Christians were uptight and did not have fun

― Menelaus Darcy, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think it's a DUD when abstinence only programs are the only sex ed programs that get government funding.

I also think Born Again Virginity is a bit of a dud, too.

― rosemary, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think that teenagers should be having sex. I find it shocking that the age of consent is 17 here, what the hell are all those horny sub- 17s meant to do? I think that teenagers should be encouraged to have sex safely and be openly informed of about contraception, STDs etc.

I am not a fan of sex that involves a penis penetrating a vagina or an anus so obviously I think that other types of sex are what should be being promoted the most but some people like to have a dick inside them so they should be taught the safest methods of doing that.

I think that your teenage years are the most angsty- exciting-full-on-infatuation-type years and so you are therefore able to have the best and most memorable and wonderful and exciting sex during them.

Your body is alive when you are a teenager. You should be using it in the ways it wants to be used.

― toraneko, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Unfortunately Toraneko this is rather reliant on finding somebody else who wants to use it with you. The message "it's OK to not be having sex even though you want it" is as important as the message "it's OK to not want to have it". There is an awful lot of work done (if still nowhere near enough) helping teenagers who are in a position to have sex have it safely - there is almost no work done to help teenagers cope who aren't having it because nobody wants to have it with them.

― Tom, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You become a born again virgin if you go a year without a shag, that's one of Brown's rules you see.

― chris, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ah yes, I grew up in a small country town near a small city in a small state of a small country - so everyone bonked everyone. I had forgotten that in bigger towns/cities things weren't quite the same.

Lonely Hearts clubs for Single Teens is what is needed. That and the removal of beautiful people from mass media.

― toraneko, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Forget the last 3 words and Toraneko's on to something.

― Graham, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

One spotted on a school door: "It's not rude to be a prude!" And from SNL: "Sex can wait- masturbate!"

― Maria, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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