Lets Celebrate The 25th Anniversary Of Margaret Thatcher Coming To Power. May 03 1979

In all honesty, I can't think of anything good. She left the country a poorer, stupider, weaker place than it was when she was elected. Also, waging war as a re-election campaign = grounds for a long prison sentence in any kind of sane world.

I'm not convinced that the Falklands couldn't have been sorted by negotiation.

Thatch created Blair - she dragged Britain so far to the right that a trad left wing Labour government became unthinkable in the eyes of the elctorate.

Why did Thatch become anti-European? - she was pro Europe in the early to mid seventies.

Would a leader like Heath have been a good thing in the 80s? Things were in a bit of a mess in '79 (the Winter of Discontent). thatch restricted trade union power which meant things didn't continue along the same lines in the eighties but restricted it too much in some areas.

now when are they going do the rerun of the friday night armatice election coverage? that's one i'd stay in all day to watch.

P.S. she also approved the Video Recordings Act, which didn't half piss off many a film buff.

The disastrous performance of previous Labour governments begat New Labour as much as Thatcherism itself did. The rot set in when the NuLab coterie decided it was desirable, and not merely expedient, to identify publically with Thatcherism, albeit a fluffier, more public spending friendly version.

Alan - if I am able to buy my council house, it may be a good thing FOR ME, but its the corrosive effect on society, on council-owned housing stock, that is where the problem lies, especially when the number of homes being sold off exceeds the rate of replacement. But Thatcher never really approved of social housing or any kind of state-based solution - her goal was to create an ownership culture that results in the kind of rampant inflated housing market we have in this day and age which is bugger all good for anyone apart from existing homeowners.

It's the logical extension of the right-to-buy which values private education over state education and gives rise to the Blairite line that higher education should be paid for by the individual and not by society and that internal markets in universities are desirable. I doubt we'll see the full effects of Thatcherism for another couple of decades at least...

Poll: Margaret Thatcher
She was known as The Iron Lady and Maggie Thatcher, Milk Snatcher. Some say she was the best thing that ever happened to Britain. Others believe she couldn't have been worse.

On the approach to the 25th anniversary of Thatcher's first election victory, we want to know what you think. Note: you'll need to log in or register after answering the questions below to give your views.

Thatcher week starts with The Rise and Fall of Margaret Thatcher on Monday 3 May at 10pm.

Would you like Margaret Thatcher in power instead of Tony Blair?
(a) Yes
(b) No

Do you believe the country would be a better place if she had not come to power?
(a) Yes
(b) No

Margaret Thatcher often evokes a strong personal response, do you...
(a) Love her
(b) Hate her
(c) Not bothered either way

Do you think women's rights in the UK improved through having a female prime minister?
(a) Yes
(b) No

Was she right to cut the power of the unions?
(a) Yes
(b) No

Do you think poll tax was fair?
(a) Yes
(b) No

MP Alan Clark once said that he found Margaret Thatcher's ankles "attractive", do you think she was/is alluring?
(a) Yes
(b) No

When Nixon died a decade ago, there was a week or so before a few columnists bothered to do the right thing by dredging up the many horrific things he did to the USA (and Chile, and southeast Asia, and so forth). In the immediate set of obits, the strongest words against him were "controversial"-- not even "disgraced' !

When Reagan goes-- and there's your closest parallel to Thatcher, I guess-- I'm prepared to stock up on Zantac because Peggy Noonan will be dictating her stomach-churning "morning in America" bullshit to the papers for a couple weeks. Of course, Reagan's long and sad illness is going to assure a lot of forced fondness from even left-leaning writers. It'll take a while for words like "divisive" to appear in print.

As for me, I'll throw a barbecue up here on the roof. We'll consume cheap beer and then I'll buy the traditional dead prez postage stamps.

I can't even begin to fathom what sorts of horrible commemorations will see Reagan's name affixed to the public institutions he endeavored to gut. Snarky "tributes" like renaming homeless shelters and job centers after Ronnie are gonna lose out to renaming important boulevards and lord knows what else... a whole STATE maybe... after this doddering, cruel, and reptilian fraud. Word is, RR will be replacing Hamilton on the $10. They'll probably eliminate, once and for all, "National" from "Reagan National Airport" in Washington. You figure there's anything similar planned for Thatcher?

Went much too far in 'taming' the unions, and in wilfully decimating communities by determinedly closing down certain industries.

Boom and bust economics.

The 1980-81 recession was caused by dogmatic economic policy; 3 million out of work... what damage done to our society? Riots in major cities at the time, too.

This ties in with being responsible for an increasingly selfish electorate; most obnoxiously expressed in the form of 'Essex Man' etc.

Poll Tax.

Stripped Britain of most of her national assets - 'the family silver' as Harold MacMillan put it. Assets sold off forever to foreign companies.

Lowered the standard of political discourse in this country.

Foreign policy that gradually became subservient to the USA (Blair continues...), and waging a needless war to shore up public support, i.e. Falklands in 1982 (gave G.W. Bush ideas, perhaps...)

Dragged the Tories into a perpetual far right-wing cul-de-sac, from which they have still not emerged.

A lot to celebrate, eh? :)

So the Tories apparently plan to foist Boris Johnston on us why exactly?

Andy: Don't forget the Tory vote fell marginally in 1983 and 1987 (from 44 to 42% from 79-87) and it was hardly a ringing mandate, in terms of the popular vote. If the opposition had been united in 1983, it would have been very close; i.e. Lab got 28%, SDP 25%. The split of the Labour moderates, off into the SDP paid big dividends for the Tories... just as much as the record of previous Lab. govts.

Actually the Callaghan Govt. did a pretty decent job *up to winter 78-9*, in the circumstances - inheriting rocket-high inflation from Heath/Wilson, they managed to get it down to 7% by 1978.

Callaghan was actually both too strong and too weak a leader in that he insisted on the 5% pay increase limit being maintained for another winter - which led to the Winter of Discontent. And once that was underway there was the famous abroad trip gaffe, and a general rudderlessness about the Govt. But don't be fooled into believing that they had been inept from 1976-78; those were years of economic recovery.
It was also a major mistake that he didn't call an election in October 1978, which Lab. would have won, if by a small margin.

A stat that has always intrigued me is that Callaghan, and even more overwhelmingly, Heath, if'd he still been Tory leader, were far more popular with the public than Thatcher in polling taken *during the 1979 Election Campaign*. Callaghan was personally liked, and could even appeal to traditional Tories far more easily than Harold Wilson had. One shouldn't think it was a foregone conclusion that the Thatcher Tories were always going to win; the WOD brought a big sea-change - to a far greater extent than would have happened otherwise.

John Smith certainly was an improvement, but his figures weren't as good as Blair's turned out to be from 1994... I do sense that Smith would have been far harder to paint as a figure of fun and irresponsible 'windbag' as Kinnock was.

It is true than no British government since WW2 - even when the Liberals hardly held any sway, pre-Grimond - has polled a simple majority of the popular vote in a general election. Labour's 40.7% in 2001 = 167-seat majority.

When Sunny Jim Callaghan stood down in 1980 (why did he linger so long...?) the PLP's mistake was clear in electing Foot over Denis Healey - a man who could have probably averted the SDP's formation, though the famously brusque Healey would clearly have pissed off the Labour Left in a big way, which was on the rise at the time. A united Healey-led Labour would have easily won a 1983-4 election without the Falklands War, IMO. One forgets, yes, how virulently hostile the public were to Thatcher and his policies prior to becoming the war leader... With Healey leading Labour, the Falklands, I feel it would likely have been a hung parliament; one musn't underestimate the amount of people who went over to vote for the SDP because Labour was too far left, and the Tories too far right. A moderate Healey-led Labour Party would have been tough to beat, and DH would have had far more credibility vis-a-vis the war.

As Michael asked, here are a few MORI polling snapshots, with notes below:

May 1979 CON 44% LAB 37% LIB 14% OTH 5%
(General Election results)
October 1980 CON 34% LAB 50% LIB 15% OTH 2%
(the month Callaghan stood down)
February 1981 CON 33% LAB 41% LIB 17% SDP 8% OTH 2%
(the SDP up-and-running)
November 1981 CON 27% LAB 27% LIB/SDP 44% OTH 2%
(height of the Lib-SDP alliance support)
April 1982 CON 35% LAB 30% LIB/SDP 33% OTH 2%
(cusp of Falklands War)
June 1982 CON 48% LAB 28% LIB/SDP 23% OTH 1%
(after Falklands War)
May 1983 CON 46% LAB 32% LIB/SDP 22% OTH 0%
(start of GE campaign)
June 1983 CON 43% LAB 28% LIB/SDP 26% OTH 3%
(General Election results)

I think that bears out my story, about Foot's negative effect, and the SDP basically taking Labour voters from 1979. And it shows just how precarious the Tory position was before the war.

Then Morrissey tried to make out the response: "Kerry's worse?" but it was indeed, "His hair is worse." Said the singer, "I was trying to reconcile that 'Kerry's worse' statement and I wasn't sure exactly how I would do so.

Apparently some people wanted to fund a Ronald Reagan University in Colorado but Nancy vetoed the use of the name.)

Selling the feckless people of Britain the Industries which they ALREADY OWNED. Tell Sid to Fuck Off.

Together with US presidents Reagan and Bush, she helped bring about the end of the Cold War.

But her 11-year premiership was also marked by social unrest, industrial strife and high unemployment.

Her critics claim British society is still feeling the effect of her divisive economic policies and the culture of greed and selfishness they allegedly promoted.

BBC News Online asked people from across the political spectrum about her legacy.

STELIOS HAJI-IOANNOU, EASYGROUP FOUNDER
When Margaret Thatcher was voted in as prime minister I was a 12-year-old schoolboy living in Greece.

So my recollection of watching her election victory on Greek television was one of surprise that a woman could lead one of the world's superpowers!

At the very least, she has helped change the way women are perceived in many parts of the world.

What is interesting, however, is that her legacy lives on even with a Labour government.

Her legacy lives on even with a Labour government

Stelios Haji-Ioannou, EasyGroup founder
Margaret Thatcher believed market forces should be allowed to promote healthy businesses and expose the weaker ones, creating what is, to me, the most entrepreneurial of European societies.

She was the first in the world to privatize the national flag carrying airline paving the way for a freer competition in the sector.

This is one of the main reasons why in the mid 1990s I decided to set up all my easyGroup businesses here.

In addition, Margaret Thatcher wanted us all to be a nation of shareholders and the privatizations of the 1980s, which I watched with amazement as a student at the London School of Economics, created a truly "popular" capitalism.

Consequently the UK has the most powerful stock market in Europe and I am proud that the airline I created is now on the FTSE list of quoted companies.

JULIAN THOMPSON, COMMANDER OF LAND FORCES IN THE FALKLANDS
When Margaret Thatcher was elected, Britain was the sick man of Europe; long on advice and short on action.

Her predecessors would have responded to the Falklands crisis by squawking in the United Nations, perhaps some sabre-rattling from a safe distance, and humiliating climb-down.

By her insistence on sending a task force to re-possess the Falklands, she restored the people of Britain's faith in themselves, and gained the respect of the rest of the world.

We now know that her action shocked the Soviet Union.

It demonstrated that morale in a key Western country was not nearly so low as they had imagined.

The lesson was sharply reinforced when Margaret Thatcher was returned to office with a large majority soon after the Falklands War.

She turned Britain into a country that counted once more on the international stage.

TOM ROBINSON. SINGER AND ACTIVIST
I deplored her contempt for social values, for citizenship and her brutal indifference to human suffering.

She helped accelerate the global shift of power away from accountable governments into the hands of transnational corporations and their lobbyists: she championed the supremacy of financial values over human ones.

I deplored her contempt for social values, for citizenship and her brutal indifference to human suffering

Tom Robinson
Nonetheless it's an uncomfortable fact, even for those of us who violently disagreed with her, that Britain is overall a more vibrant and prosperous society than in 1979, even if its inequalities are greater.

If the wretched Callaghan regime had managed to stagger on for a further five years, that might not have been the case.

Her most damaging legacy is today's presidential style of government with unelected advisers sidelining the cabinet, stifling dissent and reducing our elected representatives to lobby fodder.

TOMMY SHERIDAN. LEADER OF THE SCOTTISH SOCIALIST PARTY
Scotland's communities suffer the brutal legacy of Margaret Thatcher to this day.

Just as she gave the order that sent 323 young Argentineans on the warship General Belgrano to their grave, so Thatcher carried out the wholesale decimation of Scotland's industries.

Factories, shipyards and thousands of associated workplaces closed their doors.

Scotland's communities suffer the brutal legacy of Margaret Thatcher to this day

Tommy Sheridan
The hopelessness and despair as a generation were sacrificed on the alter of a creed of greed still echoes through Scotland's communities.

The poll tax marked a turning point, it's introduction in Scotland a year earlier than the rest of the UK both a calculated insult and a monumental blunder.

From the grassroots uprising against the poll tax was born a new spirit in Scotland, a determination to re-forge a spirit of co-operation and human solidarity.

In that respect, six Scottish Socialist Party members of the Scottish Parliament are also a legacy of Margaret Thatcher.

LORD TEBBIT, FORMER CONSERVATIVE MINISTER
She was divisive where she had to be.

It's hard looking back over those years now, to remember the terrible condition in which the country was.

When you mentioned Britain, people generally said 'how sad'

Norman Tebbit
Both Ted Heath and Jim Callaghan had been brought down by trade union bosses and strikes against the country.

We were regarded as a basket case by most people abroad. When you mentioned Britain, people generally said 'how sad'.

That took a bit of curing and, of course, she made some enemies in the process, and sadly, some people who still don't understand it. Neil Kinnock is one.

...She is blamed for creating three million unemployed. Of course, she didn't. She exposed the fact that three million people were on the payroll who were not doing a job.

It wasn't always their fault. But in many cases we were over-manned. People were doing jobs which didn't need to be done and, of course, that was very painful.

ANDREW ROBERTS, HISTORIAN
Margaret Thatcher will go down in history as a great liberator.

She liberated Britain from sclerosis and Socialism; she liberated industry from the abuse of trade union power; she liberated the Falklands from fascism, and she helped liberate the peoples of Russia and Eastern Europe from Communism.

She liberated Britain from sclerosis and Socialism

Andrew Roberts, historian
She was brought down by a treacherous cabal only moments before she was able to liberate Britain from Euro-federalism, in the manner set out in her historic Bruges speech.

Of all the many things she created, including New Labour, the greatest was a Britain strong, proud and free.

LORD HEALEY, FORMER LABOUR CHANCELLOR
"A lot of her legacy was disastrous - an enormous increase in unemployment, the collapse of manufacturing industry and the doubling of inflation. There is no way of regarding that as a good thing.

...But I think the time had come for a shift from government to the market, as far as economic policy was concerned, and ending the rule of the trade unions in deciding policy."

...She is blamed for creating three million unemployed. Of course, she didn't. She exposed the fact that three million people were on the payroll who were not doing a job.

It wasn't always their fault. But in many cases we were over-manned. People were doing jobs which didn't need to be done and, of course, that was very painful.

Thatcher is the reason New labour was created, the reason why after nearly 20 years of Conservative government and 2 terms of New Labour, that this country is in such a good state.
We've never had it so good.
All because Thatcher became Prime Minister.
Lets not forget it was an important blow for womens rights too.
Margaret Thatcher is a important historical figure of the 20th century. We have a lot to thank her for. If she hadn't came up with the poll tax (which was dreadful) she would have been more fondly remembered which would be deserved.

Utter rub.

(Boy, good typos there. Shall keep them)

The Dennis' Diary for that fortnight is fucking hilarious.

"That's one big fucking mousse you've ordered, pal."

Kate is of course correct that things were in a bad state in May 1979; I'm not however convinced that they were worse in 1976, 1977 or 1978 than in 1980-1981 or the years of late Thatcher/Major recession. There was never unemployment in the 70s to the extent that there was in the 1980s; though we must remember it had increased from the 1960s to a degree. And one must compare the ethics and spirit of the 60s/70s and 80s/90s and find far more admirable things in that earlier period (if not obviously in every single way). The 1980s saw a Two Nations conflict which any responsible government should have avoided, and the 1990s has seen a consolidation of Thatcherite values, which are as rife as ever in how many behave - the acquisitive, selfish *lack of society*.

Hobart Paving sums a lot of the 'legacy' up for me; anyone who does doubt the effect of Con economic policies on the north should spend time in Burnley, Oldham, Sunderland (north of the river especially) or yes, mining villages. I was quite recently in Newbottle, Co. Durham, and it seemed a very forlorn, dead sort of place.

Yes, there was bleakness in the 1970s north (David Peace's West Yorkshire crime novels depict it well), but not in the sense of generations-old communities being destroyed.

Pashmina is spot-on to point out the vindictive government attitude to the old industries; the end of shipbuilding was the particular disaster for Sunderland - like the mass pit closures in Wales, Midlands, South Yorkshire and the North East (as I say, County Durham, particularly).

The 'by her hand' thing ties into another legacy; the 'domineering PM' approach, whereby cabinet government gets sidelined, in favour of it 'do it all' control-freak leader. While Major represented a more hands-off leader (much good it did him... though one must remember the appalling early-1990s Tory Party he was having to deal with; a load of idelogues bequeathed by Thatcher's successes), Blair represents the legacy in this way, all too well...

Interestingly Andy, I recall looking at Scottish GE results, and while 1987 had a big swing to Labour (a lead then of 42%-24% I believe), 1992 actually saw the Tories get a swing on Labour in Scotland, a possibly win a seat or two. The effect surely of Major, who lest we forget, was welcomed by a lot of centrist people turned off completely by Thatcher in 1990, say. I find this in many ways bizarre; while Major's personal style was milder, the policies were by and large no different. Europe was the only significant change, as far as I recall. It shows how important personality in politics had become... to be the anti-Thatcher in personality terms was a major help to Major. But considering his own abysmal record after the 1992 election, people go back to wanting 'strength'...

I think Bush is becoming the most hated US President here. Reagan was despised but if Bush gets a second term and continues along with Blair what we have seen the past year or 2 then just perhaps they will approach Thatcher in the truly despicable stakes.
Blair is very reminiscent of Thatcher(he has admitted her admired her).
Clinton was extremely popular over here. I just wonder how popular Blair actually is in America(and how popular was Thatcher in America?)

Well, 75% probably couldn't identify the British PM by name. Of those who could, I'd say his popularity is strong - on the right, he has all the Stuartniks who appreciate his devotion to the War on Terra, on the center-left everyone who still remembers him as the British Clinton.

As for her. Christ. Words cannot begin to express the hatred I feel for her. She decided that a large swathe of the country were beyond help, and left them to rot. She really didn't give a fuck. It's why I have a lingering resentment towards the SE (depsite living here) as it was the South, and Se esepcially, who provided her majorities in the main. She divided the country in a more cynical and callous manner than any left-class warrior would have dared, and got applauded. She allowed a group of spivs to come in and take what was owned by the country and built on the back of a vision of a better society and share it out amongst ourselves. She denuded public services, inculcated an idea that you could have it all, deserved it all, and the work was done by others; by destroying the holistic sense of society, she broke down the bonds that provide understanding for the complexity of society and the failure of that society. As a result, you get the me first culture that demands with shrill selfishness rather than quiet assetion. She did all this with the help and connivance of a press that cynically pumped propaganda for her. She did all this by appealing to the worst of our instincts and values, rather than the best.

Thatcher, a grocer's daughter from Grantham, first rose to prominence in the Conservative party during the 1970's.

Nicknamed 'the Iron Lady' she was renowned for her strong response to the Falklands crisis, her programme of privatisation and her disputes with British miners and the IRA.

Many of her supporters credit her with the salvaging of the British economy but her detractors argue that her policies destroyed British manufacturing.

What are your memories of the Thatcher years? What legacies did she leave the British people? Send us your views.

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The following comments reflect the balance of the opinion we have received:

Europe was her downfall from power

David Craik, UK
Mrs Thatcher created a very selective division in society. She wanted prosperity but only for the chosen few, the rest could have unemployment and social decay. Her vision on a Britain became a nightmare for people in Scotland, the North and Wales. Europe was her downfall from power and she would never survive in the EU structures of today - so we have something to thank the EU for. Thatcher is part of our past and now an irrelevance in our European future.
David Craik, UK

I was not a supporter, and turned her off each time she came on the radio or TV. Listening to her grated terribly. It was like being told off by my mum. But she was a creature of her time, and if it hadn't been her, someone else would have had to lead the inevitable economic shake-up I lived through as a personnel professional.
Morley Williams, Cromwell, New Zealand

Love her or hate her, she delivered
Robert, Midhurst

I voted for Margaret but looking back I regret it. Her government set us back decades regarding European integration. However, Britain eventually follows the rest of its neighbours, kicking and screaming like a brat seeking attention. In retrospect it would have been much easier for Britain to be at the forefront of developing a united Europe.
Kenneth, Netherlands

She has ruined this country for all but the wealthy

Helena, Scotland
From using Scottish people as guinea pigs for the poll tax, to taking milk from children, Thatcher's list of crimes is endless. Privatisation of, well, just about everything, has lead to a culture of profit above quality and 'looking after number one.' She has ruined this country for all but the wealthy living in the home counties.
Helena, Scotland

But for Margaret Thatcher, this country (or those few of us who would have a job) would still be subsidising miners to dig coal out of the ground just because their fathers and grandfathers did exactly the same before them. She gave this country progress at a time when it threatened to be swamped with regression.
John, UK

Growing up I was under the influence of the three greatest leaders, Reagan, Thatcher, and Gorbachev. Although they each had their failings, each understood what it meant to lead a country. Thatcher led this country from the mire of recession back to being a true global force again. Today's "leader" is nothing more than a puppet to his masters, George W Bush and the European community.
James K, London

Thatcher's Legacy? Isn't that Tony Blair? He seems more committed to Thatcherism than anyone else in the Tory party ever was.
Dan Mason, Liverpool

It's all so dull without her

Bill, UK
Today's cardboard politicians are so dull and you either switch off politics or go retro and talk about this principled lady. Clone her now before it's too late. It's all so dull without her.
Bill, UK

A wonderful woman who not only dragged the country out of crisis but showed women everywhere that they too could stand up for their beliefs and reach the top.
Alex, Scotland

I listened as she once refused to accept (on the Frost programme) that she might ever have done anything wrong while in office. Anyone who believes in his/her infallibility is inherently dangerous - almost by definition. As for her quote from St Francis of Assisi, well we have all witnessed the "harmony" she bequeathed to the country.
UE, UK/Nigeria

I'd love to comment, but my views on that woman would be unprintable I'm afraid.
Judy, UK

If you lived through the unemployment and hardship up north it was a different story

Boh, Manchester
If you were never short of money and lived in London, then she was all right for you. If you lived through the unemployment and hardship up north it was a different story. People have very short memories
Boh, Manchester

I remember the front page of the Daily Express on Election Day. "Give the girl a chance to make Britain Great!" Well we did give her a chance and she delivered. She transformed Britain from the sick man of Europe to the envy of Europe. Many many thanks Maggie!
Henry Josling, Melbourne, Australia

The right PM at the right time, without a doubt. Anyone who can remember the chaos of the union-run 1970's must realise that without her, this country would have descended into anarchy. The medicine may not have been pleasant, but it worked. Gordon Brown (and his boss) love to talk about the fruits of prosperity, but without Margaret Thatcher's reforms, which to large degree they both opposed, we would still be a third world economy. Credit where it's due please.
Malcolm, England

My most abiding memory is of the completely cynical, re-election seeking sacrifice of several hundred lives in order to preserve the sovereignty of a few thousand sheep in a place so important to us that the navy did not have any charts.
Bob, Chester, UK

Oh god almighty, she made the country a wasteland. High unemployment and as a young person all the doors were closed. We are all still suffering from this era. Basically, if you didn't take your early chances, there were none after that.
J Joni, UK

Standing up to unions was necessary as their greed was out of control

Harriet, Ipswich, UK

The best and strongest leaders in the history of the England/Britain/UK have been two women...Elizabeth I and Margaret Thatcher. Standing up to unions was necessary as their greed was out of control. They ruined manufacturing, not Thatcher. She was a strong leader who didn't back down from what she believed was right. Leaders who lead by popular opinion are puppets, not leaders. She was a true leader.
Harriet, Ipswich, UK

Thatcher proved that a woman can lead and can do it well. She was a fantastic PM and what the UK needs most is another PM just like her.
Rachel, UK

I grew up during the Thatcher Years and remember that she was not (and still isn't) the most popular politician in Scotland to put it mildly. However you view her politics and their outcomes - you have to give her credit for being Britain's first female PM and sticking to her guns about what she thought was best. Also, she is certainly more of a leader than any of the PMs that followed her (including Mr Blair).
AJ, Fife, Scotland

A truly remarkable lady and an even greater Prime Minister. She will not only be remembered as Britain's first woman PM, but remembered as one of the greatest and toughest politicians of the 20th century.
Elliot van Emden, London, England

Thank you Margaret! For the seeds of today's housing crisis; for the wasteland of our social structure; for the art of selling people out;...
Graham, UK

Thatcher "the milk snatcher" was Britain's only dictator

Justin, Bristol, UK
With the exception of Oliver Cromwell, Thatcher "the milk snatcher" was Britain's only dictator.
Justin, Bristol, UK

She was great. I wish there was someone else like her. No spin - straight to the point, whether anyone was going to like it or not. If it hadn't been for her, Britain today would be a basket case. British manufacturing destroyed itself, Margaret Thatcher merely stopped it using public money to produce expensive antiques that nobody wanted. Her only failure was that she didn't manage to make in-roads into benefits culture to the extent that many of us hoped. I'm sure there'll be lots of hysterical rantings on this page from the usual mob who blame everything on the Tories. They presumably don't remember the 70's.
Graham, Milton Keynes, UK

Love her or loathe her, you always knew where you stood with Margaret Thatcher. That's a lot more than can be said of the current batch of "presidential" politicians on both sides of the House of Commons.
Nigel Pond, Brit living in the USA

During her time Britain became more strident, more brash, more selfish, less tolerant, and more divided

Andrew, South London, UK
Memories? At first, relief. This country was in a mess in 1979, and no other politician seemed to be willing to give it the kick in the backside it needed. But of course she went too far, becoming completely besotted with her own rhetoric, and with the praise of the sycophants around her. Changes? During her time Britain became more strident, more brash, more selfish, less tolerant, and more divided. All in all a much less pleasant place to live, but then it might have gone that way whoever was PM. Seen in the cruel light of history, all politicians, even Prime Ministers, are a lot less influential than they think they are.
Andrew, South London, UK

Strife, discord, poverty, unemployment, disharmony, 'looking after number one', 'no such thing as society', riots and the rich got richer while the poor got poorer. Thank God it's history.
John M, London, UK

I remember on the Friday night after she was voted in, the jukebox was turned down and we all stood and held two minutes silence in our local pub. We were devastated and very fearful for our futures.
Andrew M, Walsall, UK

The question is, where in the industrialised world has manufacturing survived in its scale and form of 25 years ago?
Michael, London, UK/ Tokyo Japan

Although it was painful at first, Thatcher's remedy put Britain back in the lead

A. Howlett, Manchester, England
Thatcherism saved Britain from becoming a basket-case. The previous Labour governments led by Wilson and Callaghan had bankrupted the country and saddled us with high taxes, massive inflation and excessive Union power. Although it was painful at first, Thatcher's remedy put Britain back in the lead. A superb prime minister, never to be forgotten.
A. Howlett, Manchester, England.

The best PM this country ever had, stood up to the Unions and got it sorted, then we ended up with a couple of wimps as PMs, Major and then Blair, the worst two we ever had.
Lester Stenner, Weston super Mare UK

I remember Thatcher and her government, the local Tory MP got elected on the slogan ' The dockyard is safe in Tory hands' 2 years later they wanted to shut it down, 6 months later it was suddenly needed for the Falklands. Many workers who prepared those ships got P45's from a grateful Tory government.
Boris, Portsmouth, UK

Mrs Thatcher changed Britain at a time when the World was changing

Bob Harvey, Lincs, UK
Like Mrs Thatcher I am the eldest child of a Lincolnshire grocer. Like her I see national economics in very simple terms: it was called 'kitchen table' economics, but it was more the economics of the small shopkeeper, and none the worse for that. The poll tax is remembered, but we forget the threat of impending rate reviews that made it necessary to change local government finance. The end of manufacturing is remembered, but not the greed of the unions and the short-termism of the stock exchange that brought it about. The disaster of privatising the railways is remembered, but not the far worse state of British Steel when under state control. Mrs Thatcher changed Britain at a time when the World was changing. She anticipated, even led, those changes and it is doubtful if anyone could have done it better.
Bob Harvey, Lincs, UK

But anyway, that is apropos of nothing, as I'm quite sick of becoming the symbolic bugbear on which the oh-so-working-class ILX vents its frustrations on the "middle class". So, I'm off to fight my way through the piles of rats and garbage that make up modern Bloomsbury (actually fighting my way through crowds of "community officers" or whatever Camden Council calls them).

[irony]The Working Class invents a violent and brutish sport celebrating its culture and inculcating its value system, calls it football, and it becomes a national institution. The Landed Gentry invent a violent and brutish sport celebrating its culture and inculcating its value system, calls it foxhunting and it's banned. Tally ho! [/irony]

Not so much irony as plain misinformation

Incidentally, fox hunting by its very nature involves killing things. Football at is best is not violent in the slightest, considerably less so than that "gentlemen's sport", rugby, in fact.

Goodness me, Kate, it must be getting awfully claustrophobic up there in your ivory tower.

"Association Football, a game for gentlemen played by hooligans. Rugby Union, a game for hooligans played by gentlemen"

Well on the former, as Joe "Working Class" Strummer used to sing, "the truth is only know by guttersnipes". As for the latter, I prefer "Rugby, a game for dickheads played by dickheads"

October 1974
Labour (33.1%) 39 seats
Scottish National Party (30.4%) 11 seats
Conservative (24.7%) 16 seats
Liberal (8.3%) 3 seats
Labour Party/Co-operative Party (3.1%) 2 seats

May 1979
Labour (38.6%) 40
Conservative (31.4%) 22
Scottish National Party (17.3%) 2
Liberal (9.0%) 3
Labour Party/Co-operative Party (2.9%) 4

June 1983
Labour (33.2%) 38
Conservative (28.4%) 21
Liberal (12.6%) 5
Social Democratic Party (11.9%) 3
Scottish National Party (11.8%) 2
Labour Party/Co-operative Party (1.9%) 3

June 1987
Labour (38.7%) 45
Conservative (24.0%) 10
Scottish National Party (14.0%) 3
Liberal (10.3%) 7
Social Democratic Party (8.9%) 2
Labour Party/Co-operative Party (3.7%) 5

April 1992
Labour (34.4%) 43
Conservative (25.6%) 11
Scottish National Party (21.5%) 3
Liberal Democrat (13.1%) 9
Labour Party/Co-operative Party (4.6%) 6

May 1997
Labour (41.9%) 50
Scottish National Party (22.0%) 6
Conservative (17.5%) 0
Liberal Democrat (13.0%) 10
Labour Party/Co-operative Party (4.6%) 6

Scottish Socialist Party got 3.1% of the vote, no seats but that was before grannies the length and breadth of Scotland discovered Tommy Sheridan, "Oh, he's lovely, he's a fine figure of a man" etc

To understand the importance of Margaret Thatcher, take a look at Tony Blair.

Here he is in a famous speech to the 1999 Labour conference: "Every person liberated to fulfil their potential adds to our wealth... Every person denied opportunity takes our wealth away... Not equal incomes. Not uniform lifestyles or taste or culture. But true equality: equal worth, an equal chance of fulfilment, equal access to knowledge and opportunity... The class war is over."

Whatever the political antagonisms, the economic payoff from all this talk of opportunity, access, potential and liberation is still seen as Mrs Thatcher's most enduring legacy.

But 25 years after she came to power, how much do we really still owe her?

Lucky break

The debate, understandably, still rages.

Britain was the laughing stock of Europe in the 1970s

Madsen Pirie, Adam Smith Institute
To begin with, there is still a surprising amount of disagreement over whether she gets the credit for a 1980s boom.

The Thatcher government "rode its luck" in the early 1980s, says Andrew Gamble, director of the Political Economy Research Centre at Sheffield University.

It misjudged the scale of the economic slump resulting from soaring oil prices, which rapidly pushed unemployment over three million.

But because it escaped being voted out of office in 1983, the economic wreckage proved a perfect base for the emergency reforms of the mid-1980s, Professor Gamble says.

Boom for the few

Nor, once reforms got under way, were things as perfect as memory suggests.

Did the rich get richer, and the poor poorer? Get all the economic facts and figures of the Thatcher era By Opening Here

At-a-glance

Roger Middleton, an economic historian at Bristol University, admits that growth accelerated from a low base.

But to qualify as a boom, he argues, a period should produce strong gains in efficiency, equity and equilibrium.

Although Dr Middleton allows the first criterion, he insists the 1980s fail badly in equality of income and macroeconomic stability.

Coddled by tax cuts and soaring house prices, high earners controlled an ever-widening share of national income.

And boom-and-bust policies, he insists, "were a macroeconomic disaster."

"They took a stable economy and turned it into an unstable one."

Rich pickings

Poppycock, says Madsen Pirie, president of the Adam Smith Institute.

"Britain was the laughing stock of Europe in the 1970s," he says.

On the march for cheaper inputs
"If stable meant not growing, then I suppose you could call it stable."

Arguments over inequality are muddier than they look from the bare income figures: overall real earnings rose strongly, and opportunity-widening policies such as council-house sales genuinely redistributed wealth.

And Dr Pirie contends that the primary economic virtue of Thatcherism was in lowering the structural costs of doing business.

Labour and financial markets were deregulated, and privatisation of utilities - oil and gas, power, water and so on - resulted in what economists call lower input costs.

On message

This is where something like consensus emerges: the notion that Thatcherism created a more competitive foundation for the economy has become orthodox among politicians of the left, as well as the right.

He's got the right idea
The dirigiste management of the 1970s, under which commissions of civil servants decided what sort of cars Britain should drive, was eagerly dismantled.

Controls on economic activity were relaxed: opening of capital markets, for example, has seen Britain become arguably the centre of the world's financial industry.

Unemployment, the curse of the Thatcher years, has all-but vanished - largely, economists argue, because of the deregulation of the Thatcher years, and the subsequent decline in strikes.

And income taxes, which were confiscatory - a top rate of 83% - in the late 1970s, have come down and stayed down.

Market failure

There are still pockets of dissent.

Professor Gamble questions whether Thatcherite deregulation may be behind Britain's feeble record on productivity: growth here slowed during the 1990s, a sharp contrast with runaway improvements in supposedly equivalent economies such as the US.

The problem, Professor Gamble argues, is that dismantling the 1970s control economy was all very well, but it was never replaced by any considered approach to human capital.

Investment in education, for example, has lagged in Britain - something Professor Gamble attributes to Thatcherite fear of state planning.

"They thought the market would provide," he says.

"The market is good at providing some things, but not everything."

Long live the queen

But the revolution has barely begun.

What Mrs Thatcher did to state utilities, Tony Blair could now do to public services, Dr Pirie argues.

And it's taken some time, but Mrs Thatcher now has acolytes all over Europe, notably the upwardly mobile French Finance Minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, and Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi.

Just as Mr Blair embraced Thatcherism in the 1990s, so Europe's left-wingers are starting to convert: German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, for example, has just pushed through labour-market reform.

In the ex-communist east, where less embarrassment attaches to her political legacy, it is hard to find a statesman who doesn't hold her in awe.

Thatcherism is still a growth business, and the export market is looking promising.

Did the rich get richer, and the poor poorer? Get all the economic facts and figures of the Thatcher era Here