london town

Worst = South of Oxford Street, West of Marble Arch, the whole horrible Crouch End-Hampstead-Highgate fiasco

Not really London at all, but horrible anyway = south of the river

Favourite: Southgate, aforementioned C.End, still have great affection for Wood Green, Notting Hill Gate/Portobello, Hyde Park and St James' Park, and, um, 'NoHo' (sorry)

Least Favourite: Clapham, definitely. Sutton is officially part of London now and that place is a fucking PIT.

It is sickeningly full of three wheeler buggies and smug boho couples. But is not like Highgate and Hampstead and resents being lumped in the same category.

Best areas of London: Top Shop Oxford Circus; Brixton; the pub Worst area of London: Willesden is quite horrible.

If in general, get back to work slacker!

It's a good thing I never watch any television.

And fabulous people of my acquaintance even live in Peckham, Penge and [!ack!] Fulham.

I didn't say it was "like" the Evil "H" twin-zone. It isn't. However it is next to them, and that will do.

Peckham is worst cos it is so deprived and the sort of place where 10 year old kids bleed to death in broad daylight.

Highgate is worst cos it is so lacking in diversity and is a twee middle-class, young family-ridden so-called village. (I am of course very very middle class but I don't have a young family and if I did I would not spend my time hanging round to Pizza Express in a pashmina)

I quite like Angel(the place not the TV programme).

Never had a problem with sarfoftheriver either - I lived in New Cross for three happy years when I was at Goldsmiths, and I like Lewisham, Catford, Brockley, Deptford (fun city!) and Greenwich as well. It's the south-east suburbs which are truly horrendous - Eltham, Bexleyheath, Chislehurst, Mottingham, Sidcup, Welling etc. etc.

Worst bit: HOXTON. Nuff said. You could basically peel all of Old Street off the map and the city would be a better place. Except, well, we'd have to find another rehearsal studio, and you know, what are Sunday afternoons without finding that Stereolab have taken all the comfy couches in the lounge?

Ugh. Don't tell me bad things about the burro of Wandsworth, I mean, honestly... I've just moved to Tooting and all. Sigh. Take me back to NW6!!!

That's my 'patch' too, except my epicentre is Manor House/Harringay. I also have commitments in Hackney. And the Victoria Line carries me daily in and out of Vauxhall. I think you can grow to love anywhere.

View from top of building I live in (of all of London in every direction Xcept Camden- Hampstead cuz of some tall trees hurrah!!) = better...

I haven't lived in London since I was a baby (which was also, until Dorset South went Labour last week, the only time I'd lived in a non- Tory constituency), but I spend enough time there to answer this thread. The part of London where I've had the best time is the south- east axis mentioned by Stevie, which seems incredibly *human* and good-natured and sympathetic (but still uniquely urban if anyone understands this ... probably not). I like Soho, and what I've seen of Hoxton, and even some of the outer suburbs like Kew and Richmond Park. Like David I think I could love just about anywhere.

My least favourite part of London is probably the morass of tourist- aimed stalls and the like in Leicester Square (though this is probably only because I do a lot of research in Westminster library and habitually walk across the square from the tube station to get there).

Worst = Romford, Camden (except if you're 15).

Also, wouldn't the Thames be running through the lowest bit?

Is this what you mean? (I feel like the Pinefox...)

Yes, but Springfield Park and Walthamstow Marsh are even nicer.

Anywhere that has more restaurants than proper shops, is truly a place to behold. Of course Crouch End is the best place in London.

The New River as well down Green Lanes is nice. Indeed Green Lanes and - Harringey is a lovely neck of the woods. Especially if you like kebabs.

On the subject of the Thames-side, it's great that so many more sections are being opened up to the pedestrian, but an unfortunate by- product of this is a sense of sanitisaton and blandness - endless coffee bars and mooching tourists (eg around the Oxo Building or Hays Galleria). One of the few stretches that currently (but not for long) remains unfrequented and pleasantly decaying is that between Vauxhall Bridge and Battersea Power Station. The waste processing plant at Cringle Street (where rubbish is loaded onto large barges) is wonderful.

Of course another unfavourite part of London (but more for the connotations of greed and each-man-for-himself than the actual architecture, which is less objectionable than it might be) is the Docklands. I remember travelling on the Light Railway in 1991, in the depths of recession, and never have I been through such a "three years ago but it may as well be a lifetime" experience. I'll shut up now ...

There are some long-term renovations going on which mean that scaffolding and tarpaulins and such like block out the view across the Thames for large sections. It's not a permanent change just interminable repairs.

However, aren't they planning a *long-term* redevelopment with a wider / covered footpath or something?

Just found my copy of the 1974 Puffin Annual which has Jill Paton Walsh standing on Hungerford Bridge: her favourite place in London, as it turns out. In the same book, there's a picture of the godlike Peter Dickinson walking down Hammersmith Bridge, which apparently appeared in the original book of "The Devil's Children". I've never been there, and I'm not even sure whether the old bridge is still open, but that fact alone makes me want to.

I think they are expanding the bridge on the other side of the railway tracks but I could be wrong...

I don't think I've *ever* crossed Hammersmith Bridge. Albert Bridge is quaint with its "marching troops must break step when crossing the bridge" notice.

In "The Devil's Children", by all accounts, Nicky Gore is looking down from the bridge wondering whether she could escape to France immediately before she encounters the Sikhs who have escaped the new superstition of technology. In the TV series of The Changes the equivalent moment is Nicky looking out over a completely deserted part of, IIRC, the centre of Bristol ...

And on that note... may I ask people what they think are the best books which use the City of London itself as a character? One of my friends has been at me forever to read "Neverwhere" for precisely that reason. Can anyone else think of others?

Hammersmith Bridge was moved, and now spans the Farringdon Thames-diversion river-feed, linking the Hatton Garden tourist village to the Old Street bijou Poundsbury -style New Homes for Notting Hill asylum-camp displacees scheme. Don't you WATCH the news? (Inf. courtesy Radio Free Haggerston)

This sounds like something I should be involved with.

The 177's nice though.

Maybe tomorrow is a bit hopeful, what with the percentage chances of skinfullery tonight being rather high. Oh *I* don't know.

Check yer text messages.

We saw a heron by the stream and another heron by a lake. Our knowledge of British wading birds was tested to breaking point.

We had a pint in the Barge Pole, which is an estate pub in the classic mould, and nice & friendly on a Sunday evening.

Late International Style fans, take note! The Late International Style action to be had is not strictly in SE28 Thamesmead at all, but rather in next-door SE2 Abbey Wood. It's marked as South Thamesmead on the A-Z and is a brutalist wonder in light-coloured concrete, big slabby flats peering indifferently down on the cleanest, clearest urban lake I'd ever seen.

We saw a building with a groovy roof, somewhere in the distance.

I'll take the parakeets, please.

Nothing beats swifts, of course, but they've been here forever. :-)

Could someone possibly enlighten me as to whether Bermondsey is worth considering as a place to live, and what it's like as an area etc? If not, what other areas are nice around there (aside from Borough and London Bridge)? Need to be close to the docklands, but also need to be near decent links to the west of London. I'd sooner live somewhere with character, even if it is a bit rougher. Also, I know toss all about London districts in general.

I like Bermondsey. Some of it is grim though.

It's a bit of a shithole, frankly. Pretty sketchy at night and not exactly brimming over with character either. Kind of amazed it hasn't gentrified more by now being so convenient for the City, London Bridge and Canary Wharf but presumably that's because no one want to live there.

You're probably better off either somewhere on the Central Line (Bow or Bethnal Green maybe) or round Whitechapel or Stepney somewhere. Depends where in West London you need to get to.

I thought about living in Bermondsey when I was looking for a flat, but I'm pretty glad I didn't pick that flat now. Apparently north of Jamaica Rd is OK, but south of it is a bit horrible.

I'm really glad that I didn't pick anywhere south of the river at all, because getting around isn't as easy. But if you want to be near the docklands have you thought about the bits near Canada Water?

i really, really like London.

is there some rule about when you should and shouldn't say 'the' before a london road name?

like, it seems you would say 'the old kent road' but not 'the euston road'.

Has it been the subject of a music hall song, if yes, then add a 'the'.

Just as long as you don't say "The Strand" you'll be alright.

Actually my grandad would always say "Old Kent Road" without the "the". But then he was from the olden times.

He also pronounced Euston with an H. So really not a good guide to anything.

King's Road is the tricky one here.

I tend to say 'The Holloway Road' and 'The Seven Sisters Road'. I don't know why.

D: West London. Who the fuck lives in West London? The streets are too wide and it freaks me out.

the euston road is fine, but never a The in front of Kings road

The Euston Kings Road is fine, but never a The in front of Kings Euston Road.

There is obviously no rule whatsoever but I think when a road has a heavy pedestrian usage, for shopping or, perhaps more importantly, promenading and being social, then a 'The' sometimes gets added. That would fit with the following:

The Kings Road
The Holloway Road
The Strand

In cases where there is *less* emphasis on that aspect, and *more* on a road simply being a route to travel along to somewhere else, then there is less likely to be a 'The' added. Hence:

Clapham Road
Brixton Road
Kingsland Road
Camden Road

In the case of Euston Road, personally I would never add a 'The' to it. To me it is just a traffic route, although I believe it may once have had a more vibrant street life, which could explain why there are 25,000 google results for "The Euston Road". Another apparently anomalous case is Bayswater Road, to which, again, I would never add a 'The' (but surprisingly there are a fair number of google references prefixed with a 'The'). I suppose it has a promenading character to some extent (certainly with the long-established painting sellers by the park railings).

One other thing to consider is the length of a road. So in the case of Charing Cross Road, even though it has a strong pedestrian character (with its bookshops and so on), there are only 12,000 google references prefixed with a 'The'. I think that might be because it is short and therefore doesn't acquire the more looming, iconic status that a longer road does.

Will be in London all next month, homeless for this period so far pretty much. Anyone who would like to say hi or give me some spare change can email me or start having a hilarious conversation with me here on this thread now!

rhadoo and raresh @ fabric week after next

I'll be in London over the second weekend of September, seeing Kan Mikami at Cafe OTO, in Dalston. I'll probably be getting the train to/from Euston or King's Cross. Any suggestions for hostels/cheap accommodation in a suitable location?

I'm wondering about the Clink Hostel: http://www.clinkhostel.com/ which looks quite interesting.

Never seen or heard of it but looks alright. Might be a bit noisy but otherwise very well located indeed for what you'll want to be doing.

My main concern is not being familiar with what might be a good location. I've only been to London a handful of times and don't know it at all.

Is it feasible to walk from the Euston/King's X area up to Cafe OTO in Dalston, up at the top of Kingsland Road, given that I'm generally the walking type?

It will take a while, but is doable, maybe 45 minutes. The number 30 bus runs that route.

Thanks. That sounds fine. A quick search didn't find any hostels near the venue, so it seems easier to stay nearer the centre by the stations.

If you want to do other things in London then King's Cross is a MUCH better place to stay than Dalston. Although why there would be any hotels or hostels in Dalston is beyond me, it's not really a place where people go and stay.

You're better off taking the bus than walking to Dalston incidentally.

Is it not a particularly pleasant walk, or through dodgy areas?

Thanks for the tips; I'll find something in the King's X area and then walk/public transport it out to the venue.

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/386051891_e1fd80dc5b_o.jpg

basically

I'm from NW Losers

It looks like a wonky hamburger.

'new'?