rem koolhaas library

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muschamp calls it the most exciting new building he's reviewed in the last 30 years!! the pictures all look amazing but have any seattle ilxors been inside?

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.arcspace.com/architects/koolhaas/Seattle/1.Koolhaas-Library.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.arcspace.com/architects/koolhaas/Seattle/2.Koolhaas-Library.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.arcspace.com/architects/koolhaas/Seattle/2.Koolhaas-Library.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

(whoops)

http://www.arcspace.com/architects/koolhaas/Seattle/5.Koolhaas-Library.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.arcspace.com/architects/koolhaas/Seattle/6.sdmay3livingroom2.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

http://img.slate.msn.com/media/19/01_New_SeattlePublicLibrary.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20030331/450library31_group.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

(btw mods is there someone out there who could create an architecture category please? i lumped this in under 'art')

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.djc.com/stories/images/20030303/Library_Seattle.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Just heard about this yesterday, my cousins and DB were talking about it. Looks pretty great!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I look at it and all I think is "MAN, that's gonna be a pain in the ass to clean."

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

It's in Seattle. The rain will clean it.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yes. It rains Poland Spring over there.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 16 May 2004 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-interiors/jan/mixing-1564.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-interiors/jan/esl-1416.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-interiors/jan/ne-corner-1560.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-interiors/jan/auditorium-1412.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-interiors/jan/end-of-spiral-1460.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-exteriors/nov/MON0011.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-exteriors/nov/UBC0011.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-exteriors/dec/view-from-sw-0896_1.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-exteriors/jan/ne-1497.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yes. It rains Poland Spring over there.

Yay!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-exteriors/jan/snow-diamonds-1483.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-exteriors/jan/west-1518.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/winter0304-exteriors/jan/DSCN0150.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/Curtainwall/031015-002.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.spl.org/lfa/central/ConstructionCamera/Images/Curtainwall/031015-001a.jpg

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, mmm, as viewed from a loooooooooooong distance, from here -- and my eyesight is (un)pretty poor anyhow, to boot -- well, that darn structure looks absolutely great!

Erm, Kolhaas's name I know but who, prey, is this "muschamp" you speak of?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry, herbert muschamp = architecture critic for the new york times

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

sometimes i picture him seeing the building and doing a little dance

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

while lou reed (or whoever) looks on in disgust

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, i nearly hoped lou reed was buried beneath that beautiful building :(

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

http://pod-135.dolphin-server.co.uk/~gareth/photos/5002.jpg

― gareth (gareth), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

NICE.

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

how dramatic

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

http://osb3.gothamweb.com/osb/storedemo/MOves.gif

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean it's a shame he couldn't make "the ball," it doesn't take long to figure out

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:33 (twenty-one years ago)

i love this, but how practical is it, w. the heat and the light.

― anthony, Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

the windows are coated with billions of "scrubber" microbes that continuously clean the exterior glass, and they collectively emit more than half the building's energy needs

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 16 May 2004 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)

It opens next week, so I haven't been inside, but the internal spaces you can see from the street look pretty amazing.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Sunday, 16 May 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Interior looks mondo fantastic.

The exterior is hideous, though.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 16 May 2004 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I *love* it.

It isn't open yet, but last weekend we walked around the outside of it and took pictures. It's GORGEOUS, and works so well with its surroundings too. I'm dying for it to open so we can see it all.

― Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Monday, 17 May 2004 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I fucking had to turn down the chance to tour the thing last week because I was so busy w/work. Grrrrr. A coworker, who's doing a cover story on it, has visited several times, and is pretty agog about it--her mom was a librarian so it's sort of in her blood. I'm really looking fwd to it, needless to say.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 17 May 2004 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

yet another reason to move to seattle. god i'm tempted.

― Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 17 May 2004 05:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I wouldn't kick you out

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 17 May 2004 06:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, well it better be good considering all the traffic snarls that construction used to cause me.

― Bimble (bimble), Monday, 17 May 2004 06:14 (twenty-one years ago)

light damages books.
how will this not ?

― anthony, Monday, 17 May 2004 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

This looks amazing! I will definitely have to go there if I'm ever in Seattle again.

Anthony's question is a good one though, I do wonder about the practicality of it.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 98 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

DC's MLK library, designed by Mies van der Roe, is pretty neat.

http://www.recentpast.org/types/library/mlklib/images/mlkml2a.jpg

It looks better at night, though, when you can see the books lit up through the windows.

The Seattle library looks interesting, but it does not appear to hold any books.

Here is the "pergola" at the Michael Graves-designed library where I work.

http://www.erictaylorphoto.com/images/libraries/libraries03.jpg

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 9 July 2005 03:19 (twenty years ago)

thats basically how i picture the library from "kafka on the shore"

― mark p (Mark P), Saturday, 9 July 2005 03:20 (twenty years ago)

Which one?

He is accepted by the quick-witted transgender library assistant and the middle-aged woman who run the library

Haven't read the book; is it good?

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 9 July 2005 03:34 (twenty years ago)

the second one, sorry.

as for the book, in the realm of murakami's other work, i would say it's just okay.

― mark p (Mark P), Saturday, 9 July 2005 03:39 (twenty years ago)

Interesting; I'll have to look over the book at work and see if there are any resemblances.

Infamous NYU library:

http://www.gothamist.com/images/2003_10_nyubobst.jpg

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 9 July 2005 03:49 (twenty years ago)

Love Columbia's library by night (though last time I was there they had put in a coffee shop and new wood and it seemed less bookish than before)

http://www1.law.columbia.edu/images/Communications/1ldinner/campus.jpg

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 9 July 2005 04:00 (twenty years ago)

when was that monster built?

1990, if memory serves. That's the Harold Washington library in Chicago, which replaced the old main library which was also a monster of a neo-classical sort.

It's more impressive from up close, when you're staring up at those gigantic windows. From that angle, it reveals it's true nature: a box.

― Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Saturday, 9 July 2005 04:10 (twenty years ago)

Also, that picture was obviously taken after the infamous Library Slaying of 1997, as the perpetrator was leaving the scene.

― Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Saturday, 9 July 2005 04:13 (twenty years ago)

Another thing about the Harold Washington library: it's both boring inside and, somehow, also a maze. Terribly laid out, terribly organized.

― Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Saturday, 9 July 2005 04:22 (twenty years ago)

No one could accuse the Ottendorfer on Second Ave of gentrification:

http://www.wrybread.com/gammablablog/im05/04april/03/ottendorfer-stuyvesant-clin.jpg

It's fairly crumbling inside and has a high quotient of nutso patrons--even by NYC standards. Still, they held a lot of books for me.

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 9 July 2005 04:52 (twenty years ago)

Just found that the above was NYC's first free library.

And that the following the McKim Mead and White-designed.

Never had much luck there though (Tompkins Sq. branch):

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/lpc/gif/summary_photos/tompkins_sq.gif

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 9 July 2005 04:58 (twenty years ago)

MM&W at in again at the Chatham Sq in Chinatown:

http://www.homgoldmanarch.com/image/project/thumbnails/Chatham-Library-Exterior.jpg

The second floor of this library is light and airy with beautiful windows but giggling kids and stern librarians ruin the mood somewhat.

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 9 July 2005 05:03 (twenty years ago)

Seward Park abuts a nice LES/C'town park

http://www.nypl.org/branch/local/man/images/_se.jpg

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 9 July 2005 05:09 (twenty years ago)

Had an unfortunate experiece at what was my local (Hamilton Fish Park) when a Bowery Mission "volunteer" attached himself to me and attempted to follow me home, at which point I had to checkpoint him at the corner deli so he would not garner where I lived.

http://www.nypl.org/branch/local/man/images/_hf.jpg

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 9 July 2005 05:12 (twenty years ago)

the french national library is a disaster on a major scale. it looks cool from a distance but apparently wasn't designed with, um, books in mind. the first floor leaks and black paper has to be placed over the many windows so the sunlight won't damage the books.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 9 July 2005 05:14 (twenty years ago)

also according to the NYT its directors have been stealing and auctioning off valuable documents from the collection!

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 9 July 2005 05:15 (twenty years ago)

Forecast for new Brooklyn library:(

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/gif/dwnbklyn2/bam1.jpg

Oh well, the old one's no great shakes:

http://martincloutier.net/newyork/MVC-435S.JPG

(Yeah, they had to sell some paitings cause the NYC government (or is it the national)--probably both--it hemoraghing civic service funds.

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 9 July 2005 05:21 (twenty years ago)

The performing arts library at Lincoln Center is a good place to pick up dancers, I would imagine:

http://www.nypl.org/research/lpa/circ/images/lpabuilding.jpg

Schomburg center (African American) library:

http://www.nypl.org/spacerental/images/schombldg.gif

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 9 July 2005 05:27 (twenty years ago)

I really hate the design of the NYC Performing Arts library.

The van der Rohe DC library looks amazing!

Though not nearly the same scale as the Koolhaus (or any of the other libraries here), I really liked the library in Ballard, which I also saw last week.

― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Saturday, 9 July 2005 06:36 (twenty years ago)

eleven months pass...

I'm in the SEA liberry right now. Great building.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 1 July 2006 17:07 (nineteen years ago)

Too funny Dr. Morbius - I was there for the first time yesterday as well. As I was walking down the book spiral, a woman asked me if I knew how to spell "odyssey". Some of the building elements I liked - the pillowed ceiling, the spiral concept, the diamond exterior pattern reflected in the interior metal grate half-walls. But I think when I am a Seattlelite again (later this year or next), I will not be comfortable using it as a library. A lot of the functionality of the design is geared toward the librarian/staff (not a bad thing in itself) with very little thought given to the user. I especially hated the puke lime green everywhere and the orange-red squishy furniture.

― Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 2 July 2006 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

The library is very cool looking on the outside, but I think it's going to get dated really, really fast. Especially the interior, with all the neon yellow.

I prefer UW's library, very classic:

http://static.flickr.com/36/81422002_f9cd64ff43.jpg?v=0
http://static.flickr.com/6/5720014_d4ee624112.jpg?v=0

― musically (musically), Sunday, 2 July 2006 17:08 (nineteen years ago)

that library is also quite "dated" you could say. in other words dates /=bad.

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 2 July 2006 17:11 (nineteen years ago)

*dated /=bad.

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 2 July 2006 17:11 (nineteen years ago)

Just goes to show how dumb I can be -- when I was there last year, I walked up the spiral instead of down it.

― I will commence to drop a knowledge bomb. (Rock Hardy), Sunday, 2 July 2006 17:49 (nineteen years ago)

There's a difference between "dated" and "old,". jed.

― musically (musically), Sunday, 2 July 2006 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

part of me agrees with that and part of me doesn't. good design is always of its time. To say something is dated, perhaps you actually just mean you think it's bad? i can't think of a piece of good design that's not "dated" in the sense that you're using it!

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 2 July 2006 19:17 (nineteen years ago)

There's a difference between a library and a cathedral, too, but you woudn't know it from the UW library.

― Brian Miller (Brian Miller), Sunday, 2 July 2006 19:21 (nineteen years ago)

never been in the UW library, I don't think, though I recognize the exterior immediately. seems to be popular with UFOs.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 2 July 2006 19:27 (nineteen years ago)

Brian Miller OTM. was it designed as a library or converted from a cathedral?

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 2 July 2006 19:30 (nineteen years ago)

doesn't look like a cathedral, even though it looks like a cathedral

― RJG (RJG), Sunday, 2 July 2006 19:59 (nineteen years ago)

Dated doesn't mean ugly either, it generally means that at the time it was regarded as stylish/cool/whatever but didn't age well. Who knows in 50 years what people are going to think of the library.

― musically (musically), Sunday, 2 July 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

The gothic elements of the UW library fit perfectly with the rest of the buildings on the quad, which all have the red brick/limestone exteriors as well.

good design is always of its time. Hm. I disagree with this, rather strongly in fact. Good design is good design. Well-designed objects/buildings/infrastructures retain functionality and incorporate scalability easily over time.

Also a building that loudly and proudly touts its use of renewable resources shouldn't have nasty squishy plastic furniture.

― Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 2 July 2006 22:46 (nineteen years ago)

Good design is good design. Well-designed objects/buildings/infrastructures retain functionality and incorporate scalability easily over time.

this it doesn't contradinct what i said re: timeliness. but saying that architecture is good because it "retain[s] functionality and incorporate scalability easily over time" seems bizarre criteria (as far as i understand what you mean which is not much really). what does that mean?

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 2 July 2006 23:45 (nineteen years ago)

i mean if you're saying that good design=something is adaptable i just totally disagree with you. some good architecture is adaptable but it's not fundamental of good architeecture that it is. that just seems ludicrous to me.

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 2 July 2006 23:50 (nineteen years ago)

yes, that is nonsense

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 3 July 2006 00:18 (nineteen years ago)

that is, to hold an idea of adaptability as a main criterion for architecture, as a whole, and qualifying any building as "good", mainly for its meeting that, over any other

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 3 July 2006 00:28 (nineteen years ago)

maybe i misunderstand what "retains functionality and incorporates scalability" means.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 3 July 2006 00:36 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.quickstream.com/images/en/title_solu_en.gif

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 3 July 2006 00:48 (nineteen years ago)

sorry, that was a snide response to "scalability" which must certainly be near the top of any buzzword bingo game these days.

my futon is very adaptable and scalable yet it's a crappy bed and an equally crappy couch

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 3 July 2006 00:52 (nineteen years ago)

maybe the bright yellow stuff is intended to vamoose you out of that area? like purposefully uncomfortable chairs in bus shelters etc?

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 3 July 2006 00:57 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not saying good design has to be adaptable, but I am saying that well-designed things retain functionality regardless. But you are saying that good design absolutely must ("always") incorporate elements of its time, and I disagree, particularly w/r/t architeture.

And excuse me Tracer Hand, but how exactly is your futon scalable? Because while it is, I'm sure, adaptable, I doubt very much that it is scalable.

― Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 3 July 2006 01:01 (nineteen years ago)

i don't know what scalable means then in this context. if you mean able to be changed & added to then ok. i don't see how that's a prerequisite of good architecture by any means.

"well-designed things retain functionality regardless"

i don't know what that means either, or rather i can't think of an example where it's not the case. i'm not being disingenous.

also, i didn't actually say that good architecture must "incorporate" elements of its time (that was yr word), i said good architecture reflects its time. always. but it was said in the context of not really understanding what would be bad about a building being "dated". they're all dated.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 3 July 2006 01:18 (nineteen years ago)

futons often go from couchscale to bedscale and back again, eventually

I guess you may be thinking only or mainly of a library or similar that has some v defined functions, at the moment, and has had some v defined functions, in the past

well-designed things retain functionality regardless

is both a v broad and a v narrow statement that doesn't seem like it can mean much esp when it comes to "regardless"

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 3 July 2006 01:31 (nineteen years ago)

i mean a door handle retains the function of being a door handle unless it breaks. but that doesn't really mean it is well designed.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 3 July 2006 01:39 (nineteen years ago)

unless it's a well designed door handle.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 3 July 2006 01:40 (nineteen years ago)

regardless of whether the door has hinges or not

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 3 July 2006 01:41 (nineteen years ago)

i can't imagine this building being very scalable, as i understand the term

http://www.econ.nyu.edu/user/bisina/mies%20van%20der%20rohe.jpg

but it is well designed.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 3 July 2006 01:53 (nineteen years ago)

Scalability has to do not with expanding the physical building, but how the building is designed to accommodate increases (and decreases) in the number of users and the number of books/media (in the case of the library).

― Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 3 July 2006 02:17 (nineteen years ago)

good design is always of its time = good architecture reflects its time. always.

Sorry, I was reading design in a much more general sense than strictly referring to architecture.

The Seattle library is not a comfortable, inviting public space - something I personally feel public libraries should be. As a building, I like it fine. But time will tell how it works as a library.

― Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 3 July 2006 02:25 (nineteen years ago)

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rem koolhaas library - seattle