Reproduction is Pollution

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To make Andrew L happy -- so, if it hasn't been asked before (a quick archive trawl was inconclusive), d'yer want kids one day? Swear never to have one as long as you're alive (and presumably after you're dead as well)? Do you like being around them or do you run away screaming? Are wee ones better than snotty ten-year-olds or vice versa? Etc.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

God forbid. I can barely keep up with my plants.

Tho if I don't have a little pet-kid, who am I going to force all my beliefs on??

Tracer Hand, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I would like to have 3 kids. I will give them all strange names. And hope that they form a succesful teen group and make me rich.

Babies are the duddest, they are boring. A ten year old kid may be annoying but they will have better toys. Or at least I would get them the toys I wanted (Transformers) for their birthdays and Christmas. They would also get the latest games playing machine, but Dad would deem the games too sophisticated, and 'confiscate' it! hahahaahah!

james, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Having Kids: Classic or Dud?

Nick, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I would have 2 sons a daughter, she'd do most of the singing in the teen band.

james, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hurrah for Nick! And let me clarify that I like it when Nick does this kind of thing. :-)

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Good old Nick. Where were you when Muslimgauze came round for the third time?

But thanks for yr efforts on my behalf Ned - will you have my children? I don't want em anymore.

andrew@littlefielda.fsnet.co.yuk, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

*bows* You must excuse me, Andrew, that would be an impediment to my social life.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

there's nothing wrong with reviving threads for the newer folks.

I used to swear I would never ever have kids. Now, I'm not sure. I definitely advocate adoption b/c I think it's a crime that there are kids with no homes while some couples will pay tens of thousands of dollars to fertility doctors in order to birth litters.

Bottom line, I'm not sure but not adverse to it. I love playing with babies.

Samantha, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't know, damnit.

Ally, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i think there are enough kids arround

anthony, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hell yeah. Within the next two years or so, I hope. My word to the wise on this is don't think the way you feel at this moment is the way you'll feel for all time. Through my 20s, I was fairly certain I'd never want kids & felt very comfortable with the idea of never having them. Some time in the last couple years, things started to change. I imagine raising children to be the most intense emotional experience possible, with highs and lows more extreme than w/ other relationships. It seems like a great way to raise the stakes and really taste everything life has to offer. Loving & being loved=classic.

That said, I admire those who go w/ out kids and take advantage of everything that opens up. I think it's possible to go further in creative endeavors w/ out children, for example, if for no other reason than all the extra time it frees up.

Mark, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Being 30 and single myself -- at present, no, and I have a *very* specific reason why. My parents were no older than I am, my mom some years younger, when I was born. To do that, they had to be ready to make some huge sacrifices to allow for me, and then had to raise me as best as they possibly could. They succeeded damn well, so I think; certainly whatever my sins are, they're not from lack of love and thoughtful parenting. Any kid of mine would have to be the beneficiary of that level of commitment, and I don't think I have that in me at present. Will I ever? No idea -- but I refuse to be rushed.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.vhemt.org/

Maria, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That's an interesting link, Maria. No time to examine it now, but the title caught me. Now THAT is loving mother Earth! I have to ask -- aren't people part of mother nature, too? Why'd she make us so damn smart (and stupid)? Won't she do it again?

Still, looks interesting & I'll check it out.

Mark, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't know yet, but it seems like the people who really ought not to have kids are the ones that do 60-70% of the time.*

*I mean because they're bad parents, not because of any creepy eugenics ideas.

Nicole, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

We should try and leave this planet.

james, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

James -- Is that from "Leave The Planet" by Galaxie 500? I love that song.

Mark, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i hate children. i am never having them. i see them as parasitic. (before i offend anyone, i would like to point out that this is just MY view and i do not judge people for wanting to have children) there are too many people in the world, we should stop breeding so damn much and look after the millions of underpriviledged people that need to be looked after.

di, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No sir, I don't like 'em. However one should never say never it has a way of jinxing those fine intentions. The only reason to have children is to create an army of the night, or give them appalling names

Menelaus Darcy, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't understand what inspires people to have children. Is it just something they think they have to do when they reach a certain age? Do they really fear dying that much? They ARE parasitic. They require constant care and money. They are utterly dependent. (I still count as one myself, sitting here typing on my parents' computer.) The only reason I can see is the aforementioned ghastly names. My first is Thor. The others will be Ragnar, Anders, Bjorn, Sebastian, and Adam. Unfortunately, I have no lovely girls name so I am stuck with six boys. ick.

Maria, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't like children, but they like me. I went to St Claire beach in the holidays, for a picnic y'understand, and a four year old child latched onto my hand and would not let go. His parents aked me if I wanted to keep him and I had to quickly hide the look of fear and horror that swept across my face.

The lesson here is: STAY INSIDE, OR KIDS WILL TRY TO ATTACH THEMSELVES TO YOU!!!!!!!!

rainy, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

maria are you a white supremacist?

duane, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Was going to say, decided no kids when aged eight, and totally nevah changed mind — cept M.Darcy sez "create an army of the night" and hmmm, yes, *that* I cd get with.

Reason Stockhausen = greatest composer of all time is not his actually somewhat patchy music (nothing good since Stimmung, 1968), but the fact that he took four wives — and not in series either, but in parallel — in order to sire an AVANT GARDE ORCHESTRA to get his music played. This = Eevil Genius Supreme.

mark s, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No, why do you ask, Duane? That seemed out of nowhere

Maria, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

oh it was just 'cause of those viking type names yr going to give your kids. plus i just like saying the words 'white supremacist'.

duane, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Maria, I think Duane might have been getting at the scandanvian- viking slant your chosen names had, conjuring up visions of tall blonde men with thighs so large they could rip the NY telphone directory in half with them. Is that what you meant Duane?

Menelaus Darcy, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i think duane was making a joke abt the somewhat nordic death-metal ultima thule flavour of yr choices, maria

(I just finished watching buffy and read you happily saying "I am obnoxious" and therefore now imagine that you look exactly like Buffy's sister Dawn. This is surely nonsense.)

mark s, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

but i didnt notice 1 of them is called adam.

duane, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(suddenly vast crowds were on hand to explain duane's mysterious blethering: it was strange, but somehow… fitting)

mark s, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

don't forget to add excessive numbers of middle names for maximum embarrassment, preferably spelling something bad in acronym form. You are selling yourselves short with just first names. My grandfather was called Mortimer and I have a cousin called Cully. So can you beat the sadistic strain in my family?

Menelaus Darcy, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

seeing as you R a lady, calling you menelaus darcy = certainly somewhat cheeky and mean, parentwise...

mark s, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Thats my internet name for myself, to escape the horrible boring and mundane old womans name i was given at birth. I have had a lot of fine memories with my new name

Menelaus Darcy, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I like Scandinavian death metal and Ragnar Danneskjold very much, thank you. (Unfortunately the images of stinking heavily drinking Vikings with "thighs as big as", um, whatever you said are not appealing so I must make up my own visions.) White supremacists do not get the monopoly on the Norsemen!

Maria, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Menelaus, can I please now ask you: why? I am reading the Iliad. I cannot understand, why Menelaus.

maryann, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Please, please answer as I really need to know.

maryann, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

And if you want to reveal all, why Darcy?

maryann, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

to Maria who posted the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement link and to anyone else who thinks we can help stop an ecological crisis by not breeding, please consider the following:
* Earth is capable of supporting a much much larger number of people than the number of people currently on it. we have problems with inequitable distribution of resources, not with overpopulation.
* it is possible for humans to lead a fulfilling life well above the poverty line sustainably.
* the world's population would stabilise if people stopped breeding for economic reasons (as many people have to do in developing countries) and if everyone had access to contraceptives and education about them. it would also help if no-one was Catholic and if people didn't start breeding until their late 20s.
* ecosystems could regenerate a lot faster with human intervention than if we were extinct.

d'yer want kids one day?

no but my partner does. if anyone wants to father a child and isn't a psycho please apply to spectral@liquidinformatio n.com. Preferably someone with a Canadian passport.

hamish, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Menelaus Darcy was something I came up with in highschool, my fellow troublemaker in classics took the name Agamemnon and I decided on the infinitely cool Menelaus. There is little reason why we chose those characters- just liked the words. Darcy comes from the character Mr Darcy in Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. I really have no idea why.

Maria- sorry to assault you with bad mental images. I have, in my many years of competitive foulness, learnt the look and block technique. I can type and not visualise :) And though the norsemen don't have a monopoly on white supremacy I think they should, statements of a white supremasist nature sound stupid unless you are distracted by the accent

Menelaus Darcy, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry, cut that, reverse. white supremacists don't have a monopoly on norsemen

Menelaus Darcy, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

mark, are you making that stockhausen story up or not??

jess, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Stockhausen has many children by four wives: several of them — best-known = trumpeter Markus — are highly regarded musicianly interpreters of Dad's work. I believe my analysis fits all known facts, esp. abt the thought-processes of mr megalo- bonkers hisself.

mark s, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

They sound like the bizarro Von Trapp family!

Andrew L, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't agree with the link I posted, but I thought it was interesting and relevant to the discussion.

I'd pick Medea. That's a scary one and my real name has people yell "Oh that's so cute!" or "it's just like Oliver Twist!" or other random stupid things.

Maria, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I definitely want kids. Just not till I've married that girl I fancy in about er.......30 years at the rate I'm going.

Ronan, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No kids. I hate kids. I hate Hallowe'en, too: as if kids don't get enough opportunity to be evil the rest of the year without setting aside an evening especially for them to go round the neighbourhood extorting things out of people with threats of violence and then vandalising their stuff if they don't like what they get or if they just feel like it. Bah.

This outbreak of tardenishness has been brought on by whichever kids threw eggs at our house and let our tyres down for not answering the door on Hallowe'en because we were out of town. Whether they were genuinely outraged at not being given sweets or whether they thought it was a top excuse and opportunity to demonstrate their contempt for us without us knowing who to blame, I don't know. Yeah, as wilful damage to other people's property goes we got off pretty lightly, but I've been feeling grumpy enough as it is anyway...

Rebecca, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"threw eggs"?!?!?!

I think DG and fatnick already fessed up to this, didn't they?

mark s, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I very much agree with what hamish said. he put it better than I could have done. I recon I'll probably have children some day ( am sane but have no canadian passport).

Ed, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

What passport do you have Ed?

hamish, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think I do, but not just yet. In addition, I don't even know that I can.

Kim, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

more breeding means we get more morons. yay. it seems tob the stupid people that breed the most anyway so don't tell them what you were saying Hamish.

Menelaus Darcy, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

EU (british)

Ed, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh you ARE eligable then :)

Menelaus Darcy, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks Ed. I'm flexible with the level of involvement you would like to have in our childraising. Is there anything you would like to know about me? I'm also looking for other parents of any gender.

elizabeth anne marjorie, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, well I can teach your child to be addicted to coffee and have bad dress sense

Menelaus Darcy, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I could also teach it to snort raro

Menelaus Darcy, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

you could use me as a threat to make it behave

Menelaus Darcy, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

can i be an auntie?

di, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe I went through this thread too quickly, but so far no-one seems to be of the "yes, I consider it my life's work to have children". That's what I think. Though it may be just a way of negating my own responsibility to do something for a better world - just get someone else with some of my genes to make the effort.

I shall have 3 children and call them Benefactors, Honey and Angel Gabriel.

Mark C, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Not that I agree with the VHEMT's mission, but the picture on this page of theirs is like the cutest thing ever.

Vinnie, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I love this VHEMT statement:

"VHEMT Volunteers are realistic. We know we'll never see the day there are no human beings on the planet."

Sam, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ten months pass...
sometimes i think that every problem can be linked to population. hamish's points are good ones, but wouldn't it be a lot more fun if you didn't have to be so careful about everything? my opinions about this are not very rational and not well thought out.

ron (ron), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 00:35 (twenty-three years ago)

kid's are a waste of time. i.-to-the-e., if someone creates a child, the most that can come of it is that the child becomes what the person is when he or she creates it. the person has not gotten anything anywhere. I'm not for utilitarian arguments, except when things have absolutely no damn use.

so the person would have been better off certainly if they had just gotten a hobby, or job even. sad mothers are a shame, and enthusiastic mothers disgust me. if they knew what love is, they wouldn't use it for children, etc.

I allow that there might be some magic feeling that comes from creating and raising children. but until I experience anything like it myself, I am morally obligated to trash parentdom. and either way, the odds are against that supposed magic feeling prevailing, judging by the sadness of most child-bearing adults, so it is not a justification for all the birthing that occurs in this world.

another point is that 'the innocence of children' is a myth. children are rarely happy. children are either morose or distraught; those are the two biggest emotions.

Brian Mowrey (Brian Mowrey), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 01:09 (twenty-three years ago)

bring back menelaus darcy.

di smith (lucylurex), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 01:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I had no idea she'd posted so much! (also - I can hear her voice in my head when I read her posts! uncanny!)

Ess Kay (esskay), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 02:01 (twenty-three years ago)

i thought menelaus was a boy! oops

ron (ron), Wednesday, 18 September 2002 02:19 (twenty-three years ago)


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