ile new world order

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who will survive once we're done offending each other, being offended, and otherwise scurrying like rats escaping a sinking ship? will the living envy the dead? will we build a utopian society where freaks and norms can live together in peace and harmony?

― jess, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

metaquestion: i've been thinking about reducing my posting to both forums for any number of reasons. a good idea?

― jess, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I never understood that 'living will envy the dead' statement. I mean, how difficult is it to commit suicide if you're envious of corpses?

― dave q, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

dave, it's a goth thing. you wouldn't understand.

(not that i do either.)

― jess, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

jess should do more posting, not less

― gareth, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

a brief clarification: "rats from a sinking ship" had nothing to do with me vs. mystery email writer debacle of last weekend. i still wish said, purposefully anonymous person the best and wish him back. but i also know several people who are...avoiding ile based on recent snarky-ness, and i wish them back as well. it's also just a jibe at how oddly nasty and sensetive we've been lately.

― jess, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think its snarkiness, or that its all that fair to say that. (not wanting to start another debate here), but personally speaking, as someone who has been involved this week, I feel I'm finally talking some sense on here (others may think quite the opposite), and not making my usual inane fairly unfunny comments. I realise theres going to be more people here now who may dislike me (I'm trying not to sound like I'm playing myself up as ultra controversial or something) but at least it's more real than the image of myself I probably was presenting before, which wasn't worth much.

― Ronan, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

hmmm...i r thinking this thread might have not been a good idea. but really i started it because i thought it might be a good idea to issue a forum-wide calm-down-you-fucker, after my question of "is ile getting nastier" was obviously answered with a resounding: YES. i became a "regular" around these parts because i liked the other "regulars" who posted here via ilm. and i was embraced, more or less, almost immediately. i liked that. i don't like the idea of a seperatist ile. i want a group hug RIGHT NOW, damnit.

― jess, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

So it's not so much snarkiness as "full and frank exchanges of views" becoming more commonplace.

― Ronan, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

also, "offense" in the original question meant less saying "offensive things" - like the little mini-lenny bruce's we can all be from time to time - than being seemingly being personally affronted by others basically just being themselves. a verrrrrrry slippery slope, that.

― jess, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ILE=Great when everyone is being witty and flippant, but conflict naturally occurs when peoples stronger and possibly more contentious opinions or personality traits begin showing, when people stop being polite and start getting REAL. ahem.

― Ronan, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry for going adverb crazy in that last one and rendering it unreadable. basically: people getting all up in peoples grill for personality quirks = ile tradition. but also = dangerous, vaguely fascistic worldview ("if you're from new zealand and post drunken convos, you're not wanted here," etc.) also, paranoid narcissism = ile tradition, but also = BIG STINKING DUD. also, bringing personal obsessions/feuds in public places, repeatedly.

― jess, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

oh, don't post less. it'll all blow over. i'm sure of this.

― Maria, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

also note: the metaquestion was not jess fishing for compliments/assurance that everyone wuvs him. my reasons for needing to be away from the internet (aka ile) more often these days have nothing to do with ile. but based on my ONE DAY reserve of strength to stay away last week, i obv. need this place, for somethin.

― jess, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It's amazing theres only been as little arguing on ILE as there has.

Also I don't think constantly highlighting it does much to stop it as it makes it less natural and more of an issue. Perhaps.

― Ronan, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ronan is right here. Less talk about it may make it fade away.

― Maria, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It probably doesn't help to keep picking at scabs, no.

I think most of the people here are very kind, decent etc.

Probably the best thing to do if things are bothering or upsetting you is to take a breather and then come back if/when you feel comfortable. I have done that a couple of times, it helps a lot.

― Nicole, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't mean to sound flippant, but it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of this bad feeling (from the UK contingent, anyway) has something to do with the clocks going back last week. No, really.

― DG, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The clocks did go back in the US as well, DG.

― Nicole, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Stay Jess!

I'll be around for as long as I have internet access or as long as their is an ILe. jel = k.

― james, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yes, they did go back in the us. and i've been cranky as hell. waking up and going home in the dark = DUD.

so, picking at scabs = dud. time for thread mutation. i really like this bubba sparxx album despite myself. but, is mosh a better euphamism for female pubic hair than nappy dugout?

― jess, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, sorry, I didn't know the US indulged in the same time-confusion nonsense as the UK does.

― DG, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I hear there is a Smashing Pumpkins greatest hits album coming out! And I got my Brian Wilson tickets today! Yay!!! I'm listening to Europe right now.

― james, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think its wise to make excuses for why people argue.

If you put 20 or so people in a room you wouldnt expect them to all get on, why expect it here. We're people, we disagree, we get snarky. Now let's just not make excuses for ourselves and let things run their course as they will.

― Ronan, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Take this kind of bullshit to the I Love Forcing My Beliefs On People board where we can all ignore it peacefully. Circular internet battles = dud. There comes a point when the instigator even realizes he's wrong and has acted foolishly but can't admit to his misunderstandings. Both sides usually realize they're wrong in some way. When it gets out of hand, simply refuse to acknowledge the other person, save for one final post:

http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/contrib/ruinkai/flipa.gif

― Nude Spock, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Take this kind of bullshit to the I love forcing my beliefs on people"

Are you talking about what you just said?

― Ronan, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No, I'm talking about your resonse just now. Ha, you're funny.

― Nude Spock, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not trying to be funny, I just dont like being told to shut up when I'm making a point someone doesn't like, not even an inflammatory point in this case. I don't want to argue with you but I think the hypocrisy of what you said had to be pointed out. I'm sorry if I've offended you and managed to mutate this thread into an argument again.

― Ronan, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Actually, Ronan, I wasn't even specifically talking to you, just internet arguments in general are so boring and stupid. I think you just posted right before I did or something. We could fight about fighting if you want. That's always intelligent.

― Nude Spock, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

What I was saying originally, which I don't think is too offensive, is that it's natural for people to argue and we shouldn't be so paranoid about it. And that we should let it fade away by itself as discussed earlier.

― Ronan, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Re clock-changing-induced crankiness: I'm in a fantastically grumpy mood today too. I thought that anyone who spent as much time being nocturnal as I did couldn't possibly suffer from SAD but a week after the clocks change and I'm a complete mess. Grmf. Then again maybe this is at least as much because I've just reached the weight I was determined not to let myself reach and my computer is being shit.

― Rebecca, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

rebecca obv. = jess in body swapping shocker.

― jess, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

NEVER EVER EVER EVER LET ME STAY IN ON A SATURDAY AGAIN. This is two weeks in a row I've spent all my money all week in college, but next week if it comes to me drinking fuckin Old Spice or something then so be it. I could smash any one of the smashable objects near me right now, I'm so bored.

There..........I needed to let out some aggression.

― Ronan, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

everyone put 1000w metal halide lamps of their christmas lists and all should be well.

― Ed, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I will survive, resilient like Gloria Gaynor. Scum always floats to the surface doncha know?

― Menelaus Darcy, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I was talking about it at the party on Friday and realised that I have really, really enjoyed ILE's Week Of Wrath. ILE has now been around long enough (and grew fast enough) that it'll settle into being forever not-as-good-as-it-used-to-be: but I think it's a good thing that it can flicker so quickly between modes - opinionated, bitchy, community-oriented, news-filter, etc. etc. Nice work people.

― Tom, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It's fucking over already? But I'm just getting angry now!

― Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I was talking about it at the party on Friday and realised that I have really, really enjoyed ILE's Week Of Wrath.

I'm curious as to why. Is it the Springer aspect, where people just really enjoy watching people being cruel to each other?

― Nicole, Sunday, 4 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No, because I don't think there was much cruelty. There was (and is - see explosive NZ thread) a lot of people being candid about what they thought of ILE and the ways some people have been posting. This is the sort of thing which can engage the community as a whole in debate and also may make the people involved - both poster and posted-about - think a bit more about how they work. These are good things and that's why I enjoyed the whole experience. Actually sitting through bits of it were horrible and there is at least one part of the whole week I did think was cruel. Uncoincidentally that is also the part that got me most personally angry so I can see where you're coming from (I think).

― Tom, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

umm,e xactly which explosive nz thread was that tom?

― Geoff, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Jess, if you're limiting your postings because of things that have been said to/about you (which I know you said you weren't), then that's a dud, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I just don't think you should be cowed down. However not posting because you don't feel like it or you don't find anything to talk about or you don't particularly care for people or whatever, that's a good thing, why waste your time? ILE was a fun experiment that I was against from the start, it'll go away and die off eventually as all things do, no one can live in peace and harmony anyhow.

― Ally, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ally's detached "experiment" outlook = proof she is a sociopath. Cue christian slater from Heathers sayin' "The only place people of different social types can truly get along is in heaven."

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

jess reasons for needing to post less (i.e. be on the internet jerking around - not literally, ethan - and accomplishing nothing) = a. needing to be more productive in my place of employment. b. "personal" issues. (which do not need to be aired with the board, and have eaten at my logic and humor and compassion reserves over the last few weeks.) c. lack of outside writing being done (even on my own blog.)

― jess, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Those reasons all sound valid, jess, though you will be missed.

― Samantha, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

jess clarifying to me that his jerking around was not literal is the most inexplicable thing i've seen all day.

― ethan, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i do my best, baby.

― jess, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

the important thing is that i HAVENT been able to cut the ilx cord as of yet, not do i know if i will. it serves as an important outlet; for what yet i'm not 100% sure.

― jess, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

do you think some of the sniping lately might have to do with people feeling frustrated by the amount of time being wasted on IL* and lashing out at it? Baiting people to tell them to fuck off, because on some level they want to be told to get the fuck off ILE so they can leave without being sentimental about it? last week, I made a nasty comment to a newcomer on ILM for no good reason and today I spent half an hour thinking up godawful puns. I think those things should be telling me something. maybe as we get further into the fall, some of us are finding that ILE is a great forum for discussion - full of brilliant funny knowledgeable crazies - but distracting and frustrating at the same time. I'm cutting the cord. take care, all.

― fritz, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Not me! If not for the twin bitches, I would go mad at work. Wasting time is better than merging databases!

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Wow. Jess is leaving (for very valid reasons, ciao mate, I understand that personal issues can really fuck up your perspective combined with lack of ambition in other places = good reason to stop fucking around for a shor twhile and refocus), now fritz? Daaamn, I was just saying to Neddy that I ain't seein' no reason to keep on keeping on here, and two definitely good posters flitting off is definitely weighing it.

Sterl, what's wrong with viewing it as an experiment? How is that sociopathic?

― Ally, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Because A) people are not lab rats and B) even if people were, this would be like the most dumb experiment ever.

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

People are not lab rats = implies DG thought they were when he started this board. "Experiment" doesn't mean the people are being subjected to anything. And, yes, people are lab rats, they willingly submit themselves as such every day, what do you think sociology is? And what about all those kids who apply to be drug testers?

At any rate, by "experiment" I mean we were testing to see if this would work, if ILM would become "better" ie strictly deep music discussions and if people could actually do a "Post any old shit" format. I didn't see the need for the split and I think the end result is mostly that giving people the ability to post anything they want results in people getting a bit fishy because society in general likes order and this is an orderless format. However liking order doesn't mean wanting to stick strictly to it, and I think ILM suffered for that in the early days of ILE - ie people tried to stick too hard to music-only discussions with absolutely no wavering, which turned off some regular posters who liked throwing in other references, and made a lot of the discussions harder for the less knowledgable to crack. Now I think the situation on ILM has faded away for the most part and the discussion is generally going back to the mix of music/non-music that it is best, because people can't stick to that strict of an order for too long. Meanwhile ILE falls into anarchist chaos on intermittent bases.

That's just my take on it, it makes me quite amused to think of it in those terms. I hardly see it as offensive in any way.

― Ally, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Fritz - and feel free to come back whenever! - makes an excellent point. If you feel like taking a break, if you've started to hate everyone here, if the whole thing is boring you....take a break. Honestly. Better to have good memories of a fun place to hang around than bad memories of getting into bitchfests because basically IL* wasn't doing it for you and you needed an excuse. We will all get bored of it eventually, after all.

― Tom, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sometimes hating everyone gives you more of a reason to post, though. Except I'm finding other things far more interesting these days; I'd rather get into any number of the ILM discussions these days than anything here. My problem is I tend to get lost in the ILM threads whereas this is more straightforward, easier to just browse thru at work. ILM requires more thought, thought I can't devote while working. But I, as a rule, do not get online outside of work other than very occasional checks of email - I mean, I haven't checked my "home" email address in ages and ages. Ergo, the problem.

― Ally, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

jess probably not going anywhere as b. personal issue has somehow resolved itself between the time i posted and the time i got home today. (i can't explain why without giving away the game, but it's not quite as insane as it sounds.) jess will probably be posting *less* because he can't be sitting on his arse at work screwing around as much. ile is still a lot of fun, and like i said, it does provide a useful outlet for me, although i don't know what its alieviating exactly.

(ally's also right that ilm has had an upsurge of activity lately.)

― jess, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks for the nice words, Ally & Tom. I'll definitely drop in to check things out from time to time, but need to dedicate myself to personal/work stuff for the forseeable future and frankly, ILE & ILM are really addictive. Again, thanks to all for the fine, smart & funny conversations.

― fritz, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

for me i think its changed in that, previously, i would try and read all the threads. now i just look at ones that might be specifically interesting (or don't have many new answers). this is a time/volume related issue rather than that some threads are uninteresting (although it is only natural to be interested in some shit and not other shit)

i now see ile not as 'one thing', a coherent entity, but as individual threads tenously linked. perhaps this is why i don't see 'ile' as having changed (this also may relate to the fact that i think the nasty/sniping is occuring mainly on threads i am not reading)

anyway, i think what this means is that i am not leaving ILE, but that i have already left part of ILE ages and ages ago (and will remain on other strands)

― gareth, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Is this week nostalgia and/or introspection week?

― Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

no, that was last week (sigh, i remember it well)

― gareth, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

What is it about me that makes me want to believe that it was this week?

― Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm like the Foo Fighters, "I'll stick around"...Like Gareth, I don't have the time to read everything. I'd like to though!

― james, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I have to try and wean myself out of this, its got to the point that ILE has become the first thibng I see in the morning and the last thing at night. Since getting broadband I now keep my laptop next to my bed. Orginally this was to read the gaurdian in the mornings before leaping out of bed (also balencing a laptop on the knees warms you through on a cold morning). Now, i generally click ILE first. Also generally do ILe in the evnings after I've finished working. and during the day its got silly. trouble is i rather enjoy it. Right now I should be working on my thesis, but can't be arsed. this is more of a life motivational skill than any particular problem with ILE. But it does provide the distraction.

― Ed, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Personally, I feel very disappointed and let down by the behavior of a few people here, I thought they were better than that.

I don't think I will stop posting though, at least til I get laid off -- I need something to do in the mornings.

― Nicole, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

things have been a bit overblown here lately, perhaps in part due to a gibe in poor taste on my part. I have to get used to the idea that what friends and I may discuss in real life, in a nonserious manner can be taken in completely the wrong way when viewed as text. I don't think there is really any topic that should be off limits as humour though; one takes ones laughs where one can- though preferably at situations rather than people.

I don't think I would enjoy ILE as much without the controversy though, constant agreement is dull and in all liklihood would degenerate into self congratulation, swapping and approving different intuitions.

One thing I dislike are the occasional cheap shots made about Dunedin and NZ in general, the sheep shagging references are a bit tired and at least we don't have a song about it as far as I know (cf the Macc Lads, no sheep til buxton) the only complaint I have with that is that I have heard similar jokes too often to find them amusing. Thats a small quibble though, and I have noted NZers making the same jokes so I guess they must not mind.

Time for me to subside back into my general lethargy...

― Menelaus Darcy, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

overblown is an understatement, completely inexplicable would be a better word for it.

And this is meant to offend no one, but I would like to say something: I don't particularly like threads like this, meta-threads were everyone just sits and picks apart ILE because invariably it leads to an overblown situation. And I mean nothing against you Jess, it's just a general thing I've noticed. Threads like this and all the somewhat recent "Who do you like best? Who do you like least? Pretend to be another poster! Anonymously offend people!" threads really should just be done away with cos I think they're the biggest problem around here.

― Ally, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That sounds like my position everytime a girlfriend wants to "talk about the relationship."

― bnw, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This thread reminds me of some crappy focus group or family therapy. Like "then I went into a shame spiral" or some shit like that. Why is ILE snarky? Hmmmmm, it could be the fact that it's full of humans. The fact that we're even picking apart the reasons why is bad enough. I guess theres a certain hypocrisy in me posting to this thread saying end this thread now but there you go.

― Ronan, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Right, starting now I'm not going to post to these types of threads anymore.

― Ally, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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