hey everyone! (okay, brian.) should jess move to the pacific northwest?

Brian will have the full lowdown, but here's my take as a visitor and Bremerton-born son (who never grew up there ;-)).

Plus: Seattle and Portland both seem to have a lot to offer. Good bookstores, record stores, places to eat and so forth. Plenty of green stuff around that hasn't been developed yet, at least. Friendly people, senses of humor on display. Beer and coffee flow like water, and if you like a lot of rain, you're in the right place for that too.

Minus: outside of Seattle and Portland and one or two other enclaves, you are in country that I gather for the most part measures your worth on the amount of guns you own, how many non-straight white males you hate, how violently you worship the Lord Our God and these days presumably how many of those damn Taleban people you want to see killed, civilians included. Though this may all be an exaggeration.

America the Not Always Beautiful.

I don't know where you currently live, and chances are, I've never been there, so I can't tell you what you'd be gaining or missing by moving over here.

Yes, the Northwest has a large number of overcast/drizzly days, always bouncing around in the late 40/low 50 Fahrenheit temp scale... maybe 60% of the year. The more north and west you are, the more common it is.

Though rarer than in Southern California, there can be earthquakes around here. In fact, there was that 7.0 Olympia quake that happened weeks after I moved up here. So be prepared, and don't affix your sword collection to hang over your bed pointing down, and chances are, you'll be fine.

Also, keep in mind that Washington is The Other Volcano State... (besides Hawaii, obviously). Mt. Rainier is a stunning natural skyline masterpiece on just the right day... but the reason why it is stunning, and suspiciously the only thing like it in the middle of otherwise no elevation, is because it is a volcano. And it will erupt someday. Very possibly not in either of our lifetimes... And if it does, as long as you don't live in Tacoma or east (and there's no reason for you to live there anyway), you'll be just fine -- if you don't mind some residual ash. (The east coast has worse natural disasters anyway -- albeit with advanced warning.)

Ned was indeed exaggerating, but yeah, go more than 15 miles east of Seattle, Portland, and you do run into folks that are the 180 degree cultural shift from your Portabella Mushroom sandwich munching hipsters. Then again, I think that's the case will almost every U.S. State, east coast included... just flip the direction.

There. I think that's the absolute worst I can think of. Otherwise, at least in PDX, Sea, Van, etc. you'll have plenty of IL* worthy acts coming through town, great bookstores, lots of great coffee, internet cafes, veggie restaurants, camping/hiking spots, islands (if you're in Washington or north), great retail/service community, clean air, etc.

If you nail down a specific town, I'll try to help out with as many details as I can. I'm not a lifer here, by any means.

And I was kidding about the goateed girls in Olympia, by the way. (heh heh)

Can a middle-aged couple who aren't rolling in dough or prospects relocate to Portland or Seattle and live comfortably? This would probably be some years in the future.

Possibly? Depends a lot on what "comfortably" means to you.

Yeah, that's the question it all hinges on, I guess. Would living in a socially/culturally richer environment be worth it if I was too broke to enjoy it? OTOH, there are always fun free things to do in bigger cities, right?

Pretty much. I was thinking more on the lines of house with yard vs condo vs apartment

Because if you're okay with apartment+community garden+public transit and no car, then I'd say yes, no question

And as I live that lifestyle myself in a much less amenable place for it, I'd second that re: Seattle or Portland, where the infrastructure is more built up for the transit factor.

public transit is easier in Portland than in most mid-to-big US cities, but compared to cities that really have their shit together, like Paris or London, we are still in the dark ages.

All of those things sound great to me, but I have to think of Judy's prefs as well. That city mouse/country mouse gulf between the two of us has been a problem for decades. xxpost to Jaq

I can understand that. I keep talking to my mom about her moving, but she can't imagine not having a car or living in an apartment regardless of the perqs of city living.

How long is a good trial for a big change, I wonder? Something makes me think one month.

I am living an urbane existence in Seattle these days without a car, but the furthest I've gone from home since I moved here is to the Ikea in Renton (in a zipcar).

I can tell there's nature not far away but I'm not sure how to get to it, is what I'm saying.

Metro will get you farther than you expect.

Now I'm thinking I might be moving by myself. Income mid 30s (part time), age 51, health reasonable (with several maintenance issues), hipster quotient below zero. I don't want to get old and die in Mississippi.

:(

I love Oregon and the Portland greater metropolitan area, but coming here from Mississippi would be something of a culture shock. The people here are nicer than average for a city of >million, but nice in a different way from the US south - more like Midwestern nice, but with rather less reticence.

The weather would seem alien to you, but you'd love July, August and September here, cuz pretty much everyone does. The relentless cloudiness the rest of the year gets pretty much everyone down, unless they're from Ireland or some place similar.

aw man, best wishes

you can crash with us for a while if you need to, we're only 2 hours from the PDX job market

i so hope you can work this out, WmC.

I'm here if you want a local portland connection

Deep south weather is what seems alien to me, PDX weather is like long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days. Anyway, lots to think about.

xp Thanks Kingfish (and thank you too sleeve!) -- I will probably be picking your brains regarding housing possibilities.

I've been my wife's primary caretaker through 20+ years of hard times healthwise, but in the last couple of years things have turned the corner and she's at a level of stability we could barely have dreamed of during the tough times. I thought the PDX area had the mix of rural and urban that could work as a retirement place for both of us, and broached the idea of moving. 36 hours of tears and 2 panic attacks later, I said ok, forget I mentioned it, I will never again ask you to move.

So we're at an impasse. If I stay in MS, I'll resent it and her the rest of my life. If she moves away from MS, she'll resent it and me the rest of her life. If I leave and move on my own, am I justified in taking care of myself after 2 decades of sacrificing my own desires and watching my own health start to break down, or am I a monster for leaving her? I don't even know if I could make a go of it on my own there without winding up a homeless bum.

we went on vacation (from the small-town midwest) to portland when i was a kid, it left me with a memorable impression of homeless bums who seemed to have it pretty good sleeping in the city parks

william, what a heartbreaking situation

i don't have anything at all helpful to say but wonder if there might be any possibility of approaching this in a less terrifying black/ white either/or immediate decision way. more a tentative consideration/ exploration of possibilities. e.g. might it be possible to travel or sojourn there together for a little while, for her (and you) to see/ imagine what it might be like? and/or for you to explore possibilities in or closer to MS (maybe not even change of place but somehow lifestyle) that might address some of what you long for?

Wm, you are totally justifed, and from the revive it looks like you were expecting a result like this before the tears and panic attacks anyway? You've reached a point where you're prepared to make the decision that you've wanted to for years - I say make the decision.

from my limited impressions of meeting you once and discussing this briefly, I agree with sic

In a weird bit of timing, I'm in Corinth, MS, for a work thing currently.

Still, WmC, that's a hard decision. I've been there when I left Michigan for Portland 11 years ago. I had the sense that life was stagnant and I didn't want to get trapped in a state run by republican fuckheads.

didn't want to get trapped in a state run by republican fuckheads

Definitely part of my thinking. I don't like the political climate, I don't like the social (hyperconservative/ultrareligious) climate, and I don't like the physical (tornadoes/hot muggy summers) climate. And MS's social safety net is a cruel joke.

I just want to add that I'm likely to use this thread to vent on a regular basis (sorry jess). I'm not soliciting advice but I'm not discouraging it either, and am perfectly happy to talk about all this stuff if anyone wants. If this were Reddit, I'd call it "I'm a middle aged man on the eve of his 30th wedding anniversary but contemplating divorce — AMA."

i think that if my spouse absolutely could not live in a place and be happy, and if he had already made enormous longterm personal sacrifices for me during my illness but i was now doing better, i could not in good faith expect him to stay there. and if he decided he must leave and i would not even consider going with him i would have to view that as me leaving him every bit as much as him leaving me. and neither of us would be a monster.

i would have to view that as me leaving him every bit as much as him leaving me.

Thanks, estela, that seems like a crucial point to me. I don't feel like there's a villain in this, but I've gone round and round chasing my own tail for so long that I'm starting to mistrust my own instincts.

Spent all of yesterday researching cooperative/cohousing communities.

I like the idea of this place.

http://www.kailashecovillage.org/

gl, wm

Thank you, lxy! It's slow going -- won't happen until 2016, but the concerned parties here know it's going to happen.

that's an interesting model, looks like a good place to at least try out for a while. also interesting that they don't mention any meetings or obligations like some intentional communities, it would seem you can just live there as a renter

fuck they have 25 KW of solar!! that is like $75-80 grand upfront at the least

won't happen until 2016, but the concerned parties here know it's going to happen.

💕💗

Meetings and shared work are mentioned in a couple of spots, but the requirements aren't made plain. Community-creating shared work and shared meals/rec/leisure are definitely part of the appeal to me.

yeah I imagine there would be some sort of general meeting schedule that people would need to attend at least some of the time, it's just a better way to build community.