England's midfield etc

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After watching England struggle - thats being kind, actually - against Japan tonight, I have many questions about Euro 2004:
Do you play Scholes or Lampard? Butt or Lampard? Gerrard on the left or as a holding midfielder? Joe Cole? 4-4-2 or 4-5-1?
And is it all irrelevant in the face of Zidane, Viera, Pires, Trezeguet & Henry?

― David Nolan (David N.), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:23 (twenty years ago)

Gerrard was alright, Lampard ok considering - Becks and Scholes had a bad game - i would put Lampard in Scholes position based on form. I think Butt could do an okay job holding deep in midfield...if there REALLY is no-one else (Hargreaves? hmm?) - i like Gerrard where he was tonight and it seems he does too (J Cole or even Heskey can also cover this position - esp. with A Cole/Bridge as they seem keen to do)

England will play a lot better against France altho a heavy defeat does seem more likely now

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:30 (twenty years ago)

4-3-1-2

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:31 (twenty years ago)

I would advocate a spade formation.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:35 (twenty years ago)

I reckon that Shaun Derry [ex Pompey captain] now of Crystal Palace - will break into the England squad next season.

A tough tackler, strong, excellent passing abilty, 100 % commitment.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:48 (twenty years ago)

how old is derry, martian?

i missed the game tonight. my feeling, the last while, is that lampard must play (and i think it would work better if he played alongside butt rather than scholes). i also think he should have brought barry with the squad, to have one proper left midfielder if needs be.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:51 (twenty years ago)

Shaun Derry 26 and 1/2 googled [date of birth Dec 6 1977]

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:54 (twenty years ago)

Derry plays the holding central midfield role.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 22:55 (twenty years ago)

I can't see somebody from an "unfashionable" club breaking into the midfield, even at squad level. Its one place England are quite strong : Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Butt, Hargreaves, Dyer, Cole, Neville....not to mention the likes of Carrick, Bowyer, Sinclair, Murphy, Barry, Hendrie etc who don't make the squad.

― David Nolan (David N.), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 23:01 (twenty years ago)

the defensive central midfield role is a specialist position though, take a few players out injured - and you get a chance, also grip/sven will see Derry perform in the premiership.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 23:05 (twenty years ago)

Barton at Man City will be a contender for that position too...

― David Nolan (David N.), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 23:08 (twenty years ago)

Scholes had a poor game - it seems obvious to me anyway that Lampard should replace him with several contenders for the holding player - Butt, Neville, hargreaves. England's midfield doesn't need to be so obsessed with position - just be able to cover when Stevie G breaks (an awesome sight) and moves up.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 07:27 (twenty years ago)

however, we are FUCKED against france. that much seems apparent...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 07:30 (twenty years ago)

The problem is that Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard when they're on form are all fantastic and all play in the basically the same position for their clubs, but Sven is bending over backwards to accommodate them all. Gerrard is too good going forward to be wasted in the holding role and I'm not sure Lampard is right for it at all.

Eriksson's big mistake with regard to the midfield was not bringing in Parker and Barry as any more than minor players much sooner. Parker can be the long-term successor to Nicky Butt, I think, and Barry solves the left-sided problem but has been persistently ignored.

On the current squad available, I'd go with Butt (who is rusty, I know) at the base of the diamond and Lampard in place of Scholes, who on the basis of last night shouldn't be in the first team at all. Gerrard was good last night until it all fell apart and fantastic for the first half hour or so, and Beckham is undroppable obviously.

I am far from convinced by Kieron Dyer.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 07:32 (twenty years ago)

(Actually, Scholes plays behind the striker for Manyoo but the role he's being asked to fulfill for England is the Lampard-Gerrard one. IR Fule)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 07:35 (twenty years ago)

I don't think there's any real chance of that midfield playing against France, btw - if it can be torn open by Japan there's no way we're going to be facing Viera, Zidane, and Pires without any conventional defensive midfielders.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 07:42 (twenty years ago)

Reidy's "I'd put five across the middle, me, against France" seemed like the voice of sanity last night.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 07:44 (twenty years ago)

blimey, and it's not often one gets to say that.

i got in from the pub to find that meg had not watched the match live and was therefore about to watch the highlights, so i had to sit throguh the bludy thing again...

the japanese goal consisted of 12 passes, of which 9 or 10 were one touch stuff, marvellous.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 07:46 (twenty years ago)

Also its worth pointing out that England are almost guaranteed to struggle against the minnows and raise our game against the big teams. It'll be alright against France - I'm holding out for 1-1.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 07:48 (twenty years ago)

matt, we're FUCKED, i'm sorry, but there you go...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 07:50 (twenty years ago)

I think my favourite moment of last night was John Terry's surging run from defence when he went past that Japanese player - proper Tony Adams circa 1996 "fuck this, follow me lads!" attitude.

Except better than Tony Adams, and younger, and less ugly, and not a Gooner.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 07:55 (twenty years ago)

England do tend to raise to raise their game against the better teams but if France play to potential....
Scholes is a better player than Lampard but he seems to tighten up for the national team. Maybe he feels some responsibility as one of the elder statesmen?
Why is Beckham undroppable? This fact arguably lead directly to England's elimination from the last World Cup. Plus the captainship should be given to Gerrard, now.

― David Nolan (David N.), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:01 (twenty years ago)

john terry does have that stirring "90s arsenal back four" look about him, doesn't he? isn't it? marvellous.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:03 (twenty years ago)

Five in the middle v France seems the way to go, yes. Drop lickle Wayne, play Scholes/Lampard just behind Owen, then Beckham on the right, Gerrard and Hargreaves/Butt in the middle and - well I don't know why they never persisted with playing Cole in front of Bridge on the left.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:05 (twenty years ago)

Rooney was abysmal last night, and Scholes and Beckham weren't much better. I've just about recovered from all the graoning I did last night as pass after pass went astray. 5 across the back may be the way forward, yes, a deep holding player, two central and two wide a bit further forward (BUT WHO ON THE LEFT???!!!) and young Michael up front.

and Sean derry dor England? he's got about as much chance as I have

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:10 (twenty years ago)

England WILL play much better against France, it just depends how much better France are than that...

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:13 (twenty years ago)

Rooney is one of the players who can frighten France. Against Turkey, everytime he got the ball, you could see the Turkish defence panic. When he's playing well, that is the kind of effect he can have. But Owen is more likely to nick a goal if France are on top. Better surely to play both and hope the midfield can stand up to Zidane/Viera/Pires/Wiltord.
In particular, Gerrard needs to play well. He generally seems to succumb to awe against Viera.

― David Nolan (David N.), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:17 (twenty years ago)

he didn't last time Liverpool played Arsenal, he was fantastic, it was Henry that made the difference that day (for a change)

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:23 (twenty years ago)

England drew 1-1 with japan in their penultimate match before Euro 96. Funny old world etc.

Scholes came to prominence with being an attacking midfielder - he became the guy playing behind the striker when Fergie had to play one striker as he couldn't rely on Veron to defend.

Undroppability - shades of Shearer in 2000. Matt OTM re Parker and Barry. And why does Ugo Ehiogu never get a look in (Ehiogu = Steve bruce of the laet 90s).

Cole caught out again I see; one left side solution is cole and bridge. Bridge is a better defender and Cole is better going forward.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:24 (twenty years ago)

i don't remember England drawing with Japan prior to Euro 96. i remember they beat them 2-1 in the Umbro CUp '95 tho, and England played a Hong Kong Golden Select XI in May 96 but that was 1-0 or something.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:26 (twenty years ago)

Ehiogu has gone one better then Bruce in actually playing for England tho (and even scoring)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:27 (twenty years ago)

Bridge is a better defender and Cole is better going forward

i would dispute this also as tho COle seems to do it more often, Bridge tends to be more effective (see a certain Champions League quarter-final second leg)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:27 (twenty years ago)

Steve and Matt OTM. Frank at the front of the diamond - he will definitely get shots in and real penetration from midfield is what we need. Beckham and Gerrard right and left and Butt in front of the centrebacks.

Scholesy had a shocker - seemed afraid/unable to shoot and gave the ball away too much. I see the attraction of 5 in midfield, but feel that Rooney just behind Owen will create something.

I feel that Joe Cole could be special if given a chance, maybe this will depend on how Rooney goes. I think Sven is reluctant though.

Dyer is a cocky, overrated, lazy shitebag and can f- off.

Forget the Bridge/A. Cole double act.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:29 (twenty years ago)

Bridge-Cole is madness, I'm starting to realise, you'd end up with both of them piling forward at once and getting caught short.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:35 (twenty years ago)

not if you give them proper instruction surely? they can't be complete idiots /remembers rumours of WB's intense thickness/

Dyer didn't get a chance really last night, I don't think he's as bad as the good doctor suggests.

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:37 (twenty years ago)

No he's prob not. I just don't like him.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:53 (twenty years ago)

I still think England will do well in Euro 2004

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:55 (twenty years ago)

I think I must have misread upthread but I thought I saw someone say Sean Derry for England.

Lovely equalising goal.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:05 (twenty years ago)

Indeed - its good that England have got their mediocre 1-1 scare (see also Switzerland and Sweden) out of the way before the tournament. Now we'll only be mildly outplayed by France instead of completely and utterly.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:07 (twenty years ago)

Too much reliance on long balls, fuck-all first time passing, fuck all midfield and upfront movement into space. Every time Japan passed it they passed first or second time, and then moved straight away, easy, flowing, good-looking football that was effective; if they had better players they would have fucking eaten us. Every time we got it we walked forward five steps, turned around, back eight steps and passed it sideways for Gerrard/Beckham/Lampard to lump forward. Beckham was rubbish. They have to start without him on Saturday. Play Gerrard on the right with licence to move inside when he needs too (G Neville and one centre-mid can cover). Much as I don't like him, Butt needs to play and hold the midfield. Play J Cole for fuck's sake, him, Gerrard, Lampard & Butt in midfield. Rooney to start just behind Owen (also get Rooney to leave Everton for the sake of his development, this is U&K). Defence bare-bones but alright, EXCEPT THAT NO ONE IS MENTIONING THAT BOTH TERRY AND JAMES WERE NUTMEGGED FOR THE GOAL = PLZ PLZ PLZ GET A PHYSIOTHERAPIST TO LEARN #'EM HOW TO STAND INNIT K THNX BI.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:09 (twenty years ago)

Speaking as a neutral here (ahem), England as a football nation have always struck me as being very like Germany - tho rarely as successful - they don't play very attractive football and they very often beat teams who play "better" than them

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:10 (twenty years ago)

There were loads of Japanese guys in the pub last night. One lovely girl too. She caught me looking at her bum and I went red.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:12 (twenty years ago)

When you have Gerrard and Beckham playing in your midfield you can afford to play long balls provided you have someone upfront who can pick them up and control them quickly. If anything, there weren't ENOUGH long balls being played by the end last night and too much frantic short passing going astray.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:13 (twenty years ago)

Rooney + Owen = too short for long balls, and Owen has lost a yard of pace which would have carried him past people before. Plus his left-foot is awful! That chance when he skipped past the defender and jigged the keeper; had he planted his right foot on the ground and lifted it over the keeper with his left, instead of prodding it like a fucking aimless flower with his too-stretched right, we'd have scored.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:16 (twenty years ago)

http://www.geocities.com/carsmilesteve/masterpiece.jpg

there were quite a few japanese people in our pub too.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:18 (twenty years ago)

There is much in what Nick S says. I thought James looked like a tit for the goal. I guess he was unsighted, but I would have expected a top class keeper to shovel it away somehow. It wasn't a hard shot.

The long balls might work as a diagonal thingy to cut out the France midfield. I thought I saw Beckham and Gerard do this last night. I think if you do this you have to get runners from midfield to come onto the next pass. Lampard poss? Long balls does not mean HIGH balls, hence the height of Owen and Rooney is irrelevant.

We don't seem to try and play it OVER the defence any more do we? Maybe Owen has lost pace, or the injuries have made him lose confidence to really stretch himself?

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:26 (twenty years ago)

Dadaismus has a point about England playing like Germany - but then Germany never beat a respected team 5-1 away from home did they? certainly not in recent memory. England are more haphazard too, regularly taking the lead by a goal or two very quickly (see vs Portugal in Euro 2000, vs Denmark late last year or vs Italy in LE TOURNOI '97!) and looking very exciting before squandering it all (in two of those cases at least). But it does seem clear that Sven's aim was to turn England into a team that just get the win irrespective of how they play - that's certainly what happened all thru the qualifying campaign for Euro 2004, and yes it was mostly turgid and uninspiring to watch (but yeh they won).

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:35 (twenty years ago)

Beckham did actually float an astonishingly beautiful ball to someone (Gerrard i think) early on last night, but that was pretty much the only decent thing he did bar a lovely 360 dance and muddle thru a couple of Japanese players deep in the second half

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:37 (twenty years ago)

Nick S: Joe Cole shouldn't even be in the squad. He is the current crowned king of dangle and only ever flatters to deceive.

Sorry I missed you at the weekend btw. Your mate's samba band was good! And seeing a Brazil team at the Park was amazing. And seeing my hero Tony Kellow in the flesh again after all these years was the best bit of all.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:43 (twenty years ago)

perhaps you might want to blog it mate ;)

(i would, but it seems a little rude :))

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 09:46 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 266 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

my suggestion -

heskey and alan smith as centre-backs. switch beckham to left back and bring in matt taylor on the right. owen and rooney on the right and left wings respectively. play portsmouth's steve stone in the centre of midfield, alongside shaun derry. the rest of the team picks itself - luke chadwick and seth johnston up front

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:33 (twenty years ago)

Keeper?

― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:40 (twenty years ago)

Tim Henman?

― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:40 (twenty years ago)

talking of potential future England players:

Pompey signal their intention to buy Michael Carrick from West Ham !

Pompey Offer Club Record Bid For West Ham Ace Portsmouth FC - The Official Site 15:16
http://www.pompeyfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10396~547441,00.html

Pompey confirm Carrick bid
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/3532332.stm

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 15:26 (twenty years ago)

I'm not sure why we are talking about crossing as being important - I realise Owen and Rooney can score with headers, but it's hardly their greatest strength. Movement and passing is what we want to work with them.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 16:18 (twenty years ago)

there aren't many better crossers of the ball than G Neville and Beckham anyway

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 16:23 (twenty years ago)

Why no love for Alan Thomson? Only one mention up there...

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 16:42 (twenty years ago)

Something that continues to amaze me: I have never seen an interview with Paul Scholes or heard his voice

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 17:03 (twenty years ago)

he's mute

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 17:11 (twenty years ago)

enough with the talking, anyway

london fancy a kick about again FAKA?

let your feet do the talking kids. i'm playing left wing despite being prolific

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 09:26 (twenty years ago)

The only reason I am talking about SWeeP's crossing is, from watching him the last three seasons, I know it is the weakest part of his game. Purely observational from having seen him so much.

England players always get picked on their all-round game, rather than their necessary ability to play to the team's strengths.

― ___ (___), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 09:34 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

gerrard out for next two england matches. how will they cope? well, the matches are easy enough, so i suppose the answer is "comfortably enough". but who will play?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 14:25 (twenty years ago)

Butt if he's fit, Hargreaves...tho i suppose the onus may be on Sven to pick another debutant

― teh pow! (blueski), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 14:28 (twenty years ago)

Beckham and Lampard in central midfield with Wright-Phillips on the right?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 14:30 (twenty years ago)

I think Matt is right, or at least I hope he is.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 16:54 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

stewart downing?

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 22 October 2004 10:14 (twenty years ago)

.....won't get a chance any day soon. Sven is too conservative + he will either go with the diamond or Cole/Bridge in a 4-4-2.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 22 October 2004 10:36 (twenty years ago)

three weeks pass...

so back to the actual football - what went wrong last night?

back of composure/too many aimless long balls giving away possession? no one putting decent (ball winning) tackles in?

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 18 November 2004 13:22 (twenty years ago)

all 11 players and all substitutes had a terrible game. it's not often that all your players have a bad night at the same time, and it's quite something to behold when it occurs.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 18 November 2004 13:26 (twenty years ago)

Spain played better than they have in some time, locking a not-arsed England midfield out altogether with relative ease, so credit to them really (apart from the pathetic diving/exaggerating as usual)

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 18 November 2004 13:35 (twenty years ago)

All the players playing for Man Utd/Chelsea/Arsenal were trying to show their rivals in the worst possible light so that the subsequent press hammering would dent their confidence giving them a crucial psychological advantage in the title race.

The only England moment I saw that was any good whatsoever was Paul Robinson's penalty save. But then I did switch off in a mixture of disgust and disinterest after Matthew Upson was bought on.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 18 November 2004 13:40 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

That was absolutely insane. That second half midfield made no sense at all!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

I could see the point of 4-3-3 in the first half, giving Sven the freedom to play Wright-Phillips and Beckham at the same time with no natural left-sider. But why didn't he play SWP on the right and Downing on the left in a 4-4-2? That's what we'll have to do in the event of an injury crisis.

And more pertinently, what was the point of picking Johnson and then playing him on the right wing? Complete wasted opportunity.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 21:48 (twenty years ago)

I think Soccernet might have said it all "Sven Wastes New Talent".

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

ps: 10 man Canada is actually WINNING!

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 21:54 (twenty years ago)

Absolutely: that post-substitution line-up looked like a pure 4-4-2, and surely he'd already seen that 4-3-3 wasn't cutting it.

I liked Hansen saying, in regard to the idea of learning from friendlies "I defy anyone to have learnt anything from that." And Lineker's parting shot "Not exactly a thriller at the Villa. They should have played at Birmingham City - it was absolutely sh...ocking."

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)

Haven't seen it yet. How did Holland look?

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 22:04 (twenty years ago)

Strange in black and white halves

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 22:20 (twenty years ago)

That's their ant-racism kit, right?

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

Yes, I think so. A bit of orange here and there would've gone nicely with it, to remind us that were still actually The Dutch.

They played alright, with an experienced team.

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 22:28 (twenty years ago)

So a draw was a decent result?

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

that was shite, but this made me laugh:

I reckon that Shaun Derry [ex Pompey captain] now of Crystal Palace - will break into the England squad next season.
A tough tackler, strong, excellent passing abilty, 100 % commitment.

well, he's getting the oddgame for Forest

― Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 22:35 (twenty years ago)

xpost

Not sure there was too much 'decent' about the game. The one player I was looking forward to seeing - SWP - made three or four howling errors. The Dutch hit a post and knocked it about in their unruffled way. And that's about all I remember. For much of the first half, I was concentrating on the cricket, anyway, which was stupidly exciting, even on the radio.

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

SWP looked like Defoe in his first couple of games, so keen to score he was just lashing out, but the way he went round that Dutch player just before one of the aforementioned howlers was fantastic.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 22:45 (twenty years ago)

Yes, Matt. He was like a motorbike rounding a bend he was that close to the ground. Fabulous balance. And of course his England career will settle down.

Coming back to kits, I notice that Portugal wore the same kit as Holland last night, albeit with their own badge. Was this a Nike thing? Was it a fatuous publicity stunt, cf Benetton attaching itself to 'causes' in the 80s?

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Thursday, 10 February 2005 07:36 (twenty years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4252871.stm

Pretty much I fear. Or at least, they are pushing it hard and not purely out of the good of their hearts. I am starting to like Gary Neville. And I'm a Liverpool fan!! What's wrong with me?

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Thursday, 10 February 2005 12:13 (twenty years ago)

That was a really stupid match. Sven is either some kind of warped genius (still no evidence for this after all this time) or he's completely lost his touch. The most effective, marauding, goalhanging centre forward of the year plays as a defensive right winger? wtf?? Andy Johnson must be furious.

It was laughable. England friendlies are just fucking awful. Sack the manager.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 10 February 2005 12:20 (twenty years ago)

jeez what a disgusting little shit Gary Neville is. so he refuses to wear an antiracism top because it somehow "cheapens the message", but plays for man utd, kings of footballing merchandising. how many £40 shirts do they put out a season?

― zappi (joni), Thursday, 10 February 2005 12:24 (twenty years ago)

sorry, how many shirts MADE BY NIKE does Man Utd put out (and Neville wear every weekend in front of tens of thousands)

― zappi (joni), Thursday, 10 February 2005 12:27 (twenty years ago)

yeah but they don't pretend to be fighting for a cause when they sell those millions of shirt innit, they just pretend to be in some kind of opera of dreams instead.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 10 February 2005 13:07 (twenty years ago)

That's their ant-racism kit, right?

http://www.psisolutions.com/images/metal-magnifying-glass.jpg http://www.omar.ru/home/adv/kettle/kettle-3.jpg

― DJ Mencap0))), Thursday, 10 February 2005 13:19 (twenty years ago)

eight months pass...

So, Sven unveils his squad for the Argentina game and Jamie Carragher is dropped in favour of Jonathan Woodgate and PAUL KONCHESKY. And still no Scott Parker despite the inclusion of Alan Smith in the squad, presumably as a midfielder. I'd understand if Parker was a racist thug in the Joey Barton mould but, seriously, why?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:36 (nineteen years ago)

Woodgate injured tonight

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:43 (nineteen years ago)

Ah, I missed that. Still, HAHAHAHAHAHA FUNNIEST CAREER EVER!

Makes Carragher's omission all the more baffling through. Has Sven accepted he's fourth in the pecking order now?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:49 (nineteen years ago)

carragher is injured too.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:51 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/articles/PA_SPOA17525781131306493A?source=PA%20Feed

"Carragher has also been ruled out through injury, joining not only Woodgate, but also Ashley Cole, Gary Neville, Chris Kirkland, Owen Hargreaves and Kieron Dyer on the absentee list."

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:55 (nineteen years ago)

i think parker should be called up, though. he's doing an accomplished job as a defensive midfielder, and can be called upon to play a more creative role if required.

i'm guessing sven is going to try out a diamond in this game? beckham right, gerrard left, lampard at the tip and carrick/king/smith(?) at the base?

smith was excellent today, but i don't think that should gloss over the fact that he has looked lost in his new role for the most part. its strange that his midfield conversion has *boosted* his chance of an england squad place, when it hasn't really been a success, and has only really succeeded in taking him away from his proper position.

the fact that sven has picked crouch, despite his poor form, suggests that he will probably stick with him for a while. (i mean, if he's getting in the squad on this form - there isn't really much he can do to *lose* his place between now and the summer, is there?)

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 6 November 2005 23:05 (nineteen years ago)

Oh god, not Smith as the back man in a diamond. He surely can't be contemplating that.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 6 November 2005 23:14 (nineteen years ago)

probably not (at least not for the full 90 minutes) - though i'm guessing smith is included in the squad as a midfielder, and i think his assets as a midfielder would suit the defensive position the most? his performance today was all about tough tackling and breaking up attacks, rather than creativity or goalscoring.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 6 November 2005 23:23 (nineteen years ago)

(to clarify: i'm certainly not saying smith *should* fill that role for england, i'm saying that its probably the role sven sees him in, if he's planning to go with a diamond?)

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 6 November 2005 23:25 (nineteen years ago)

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