Supernatural and other interesting things

As a pure idea, people general see Science as equivalent to draining the world of spiritual 'meaning' which is equivalent to trying not to add human value to things:

"Blind, Science is working the useless ground.
Mad, faith is living the dream of its cult."
(Fernando Pessoa, Christmas)

It's true that science will be muddled up with ideology in practice, but as an ideal, it operates in the opposite way? I mean, scientific skepticism is anti-ideological, and in a good way, inhuman? I think the trope of 'blind science' used in this poem is interesting because the usual blind figure is justice, who is supposed to not be swayed by emotion, but be fair.

How do you get your data on science Hanle y? do all the tests yourself?

Ya know, I'm not sure science has invalidated any of the above. If you're of the belief that you only believe what you can see, you're kind of screwed when you jump into the quantum realm, since a lot of new science assumes a number of things that you can't see. For instance, each thing is made of something else until finally you get to the teensiest tiniest bit of stuff that flips back and forth between thing and not-thing. As for ESP, there's plenty of evidence to support it. Find it yourself. Ghosts? You mean living dead people's souls? Don't know how science would go about researching that. Go to a number of seances until you dismiss the idea of a ghost as something never manifested by charlatans? Monsters? Like what-- chupacabra? Alien abductions? Oh yeah, science has really been researching this openly and actively. It is common knowledge that everyone on earth has been given the full truth regarding aliens. (sarcasm). Atlantis can't be said to not exist until the entire earth has been explored, including all the waters we've never been able to explore yet. God and the afterlife. Hmmm. Scientists aren't even sure what life is while it's alive yet, other than functioning biological entities. Brain science is in it's infancy stage and brain scientists are very interested in out of body experiences and the brain states of those who have altered their brain chemistry through spiritual means. And what is God, anyway? An old man in the clouds with a beard who invented a specific religion and only talks to certain holy men? The bullheaded view that God doesn't exist because we can't see it, but we believe it to be a specific creator deity is old news. The God in question now is an all-encompasing everything entity of intelligence & chaos, neither good or bad, similar to ideas expressed in ALL religions, specific to none.

Just because it seems amazing doesnt mean its not true . People used to laugh at the idea that the earth was round. Also notice he doesnt actually GIVE the statistical proof.

But we do this anyway. The day you drink the red wine it does, the day after it doesn't.

Isn't the thing about science that it's quite willing to change, it's like "This is how the universe works...oh, hold on, that's wrong, THIS is how the universe works...oh, no wait a minute...etc" where as all this spooky stuff (ie religious/supernatural type stuff) is less willing to change, prefering to stick its fingers in its ears and shout "Lalala I can't hear you"

Yeah, I thought so.

I was all alone there, and when I got to the sitting room I suddenly felt really cold and uneasy, although it was a pleasant-enough room. I couldn't wait to get out.

When I returned to the office on Friday afternoon, I typed up the tape I had made. You could hear me wittering on about the furnishings etc in the sitting room, and suddenly there was this quiet but rather menacing male voice repeatedly saying "get out", as though someone was standing very close behind me in that room.

I expect there's some perfectly logical explanation for it, but I've been shaken up about that all weekend.

Could you hear the voice shouting "get out" when you were actually there?

xxpost

http://aaevp.com/

My ex-boyfriend has spent his entire life trying to debunk any kind of supernatural associations. All kinds of things can be responsible - poorly shielded equipment picking up radio signals, CB transmitters nearby, static, glitches of radio chatter bouncing off the atmosphere.

Though it is more fun/spooky to think of it as being voices of the dead!

(I'm not dogmatic, more catmatic)

(but *not* catamitic, before anyone asks)

I don't mean this applies in CJ's case, which sounds creepy. I'm totally open to the idea that we don't/can't measure everything. But I don't believe it's useful to say we shouldn't try to investigate and simply act like we can't ever understand. This isn't 'rationalising away'. Why should it be 'away'? Why the accusation that by attempting to understand, we're denying our subjective experience? We use our brains to process information. Why should we suppress that?

Just don't waste any $ on a "professional debunker" either..

Trust in Science, ya get me?

http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/media/latest-pics/day57/d57_2200_science01_g.jpg

You mentioned waves appearing that "make people think" they see things...but where do these waves come from, and why are they present when one has such supernatural experiences?

/quote (maybe it was the ghost in the machine, the server letting me know it's conscious)

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly. The waves came from vibrating or oscillating machinery, such as an air conditioning unit. The waves were present when the phenomena were reported because they were causing them. When the air con was turned off, the vibrating stopped. The waves aren't mysterious, they're measurable changes in the environment identical to sound waves except for the frequency and maybe amplitude.

quote: Maybe they constitute part of the observable physical phenomena that exiists when a spirit is being heard. /quote

Only if you're suggesting a ghost turned on the air conditioning to make people see it.

I'm not saying everything can be explained in terms which we can fully grasp given our current level of understanding the universe. But why wilfully ignore a real explanation? This was a clear example of people being mistaken, not retroactively explaining something away.