Fuel Protests

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As a non driver, I'm viewing the hoo-haa about fuel prices and the planned protests with a detached amusement, as I did in the last round a few years ago.

This is the thread where we discuss political ramifications, effectivness of direct action, motives of the protestors etc etc.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Friday, 4 June 2004 10:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Personally, I have nothign intelligent or informed to say about the subject - I'm such eager to hear the collected minds of ILX have a chat about it.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Friday, 4 June 2004 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

the high prices affect non-drivers as well, because deliveries of goods are more expensive as a result. The differing levels of tax on fuel are quite staggering - 70% of the total cost is tax in the UK cf 27% in the US, with other European countries at various levels between the two.

The justification that it is an anti-pollution tax is sometimes made. But not a lot of effort is going into developing and marketing cleaner alternatives. Whilst Bp and Sh3ll are doing their bit, it isn't that much (BP spent more on rebranding than it does per annum on hydrogen fuel cell reesarch). Exx0n M0bil, the world's largest oil company, spends nothing at all.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 10:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuel prices = distribution costs = manufacturing costs = everyone pays more. Therefore detached cyclist smugness is not the smart position.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 4 June 2004 10:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it me, or is it the same people who are complaining about fuel prices and starting fuel protests the same people who keep complaining about windfarms and other alternative sources of fuel? (Or am I equating shippers who ship with ships with shippers who ship with lorries?)

Just switch all your petrosleds to rape seed oil and be done with it.

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 10:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Or wawa. If the car companies didn't own all the secrets.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 4 June 2004 10:55 (twenty-one years ago)

The baffling thing about the fuel protests is that these people seem to think prices are being hiked due to some nefarious government plot, rather than the simple fact that THERE IS NOT VERY MUCH OIL LEFT and that's why our governments have been driven to go invade countries in order to secure more.

Meanwhile, the fact that people are protesting the building of wind farms is so utterly preposterous it leaves me speechless. Would they honestly rather live next door to a nuclear power station?

― Jason J, Friday, 4 June 2004 10:58 (twenty-one years ago)

the higher petrol is priced, the happier I am.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't petrol like, so much cheaper in the U.S than in the U.k?

― Rumpy Pumpkin (rumpypumpkin), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Channel 4 had stats that showed that American's pay a 1/4 what we do for our petrol.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Petrol in the US costs, like £1/£1.50 a gallon, as opposed to UK £4 or whatever, etc. etc. blah blah this will x-post as some other pedantic person points it out...

Now it's the fishermen and the shipping with ships people protesting windfarms! The former coz they are "noisy" and drive away the fish (oh not half as noisy as noisy fishing boats and nothing drives away fish like an oil spill) and the latter coz they "interfere with shipping lanes and could cause accidents!".

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:11 (twenty-one years ago)

(I think that all people who protest against windfarms should be tied to a sail, Simon Le-Bon stylee and dunked repeatedly under water. Preferably with live snakes. THAT would give them something to complain about.)

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:12 (twenty-one years ago)

The Tories are anti-land based wind farms on 'environmental' (= Bernard Ingham thinking they're ugly) grounds.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:13 (twenty-one years ago)

These aren't land based ones they're complaining about now, they're the sea-based ones.

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Bunch of twattish wankers. usual collection of howlers at the moon, generally annoyed that things change. Poujadist cockfarmers.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry, I did not mean to derail this thread to be about windfarms. I just love windmills. As reinforced by the lovely one we saw in Wiltshire last weekend.

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Bloody idiots, either way. It's like here's an almost magical free lunch type of energy generation, but we can't have it because it's UGLY and might possibly scare some fish. No, we'd much rather fuck up our entire climate thank you very much.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I like windfarms.

I see the fuel protesters to some extent as being afraid of change, and wanting things to remain as they are, in this case, able to take advantage of the (in my experience illusory) "freedom" that car pwnage and heavy usage appears to offer. "I need my car" yadda yadda This is surely a dangerously short-sighted outlook though? I mean, once oil prodcution peaks and starts to decline, my god are we all going to be FUCKED. Perhaps best to save yer money by cutting down on un-neccesary car usage and ownage, rather than moaning abt the price of fuel. Campaign against the fact many facilities, shops etc are being situated in such a way that using them w/o a car is at best highly inconvenient.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Do people think that petrol grows on trees? OK, technically in a way, it did. It grew on very old trees a long time ago that were crushed over millions and billions of years to turn it into oil. Why don't they try doing it themselves in their compost heaps if they think it's that simple?

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

the MoD doesn't like windfarms because the allegedy interfere with its ability to both track incoming missiles and blow shit up overseas

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

More reasons to build them, then!

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

How do they do that? More than something like a typical city, I mean?

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

god alone knows. i think more people should walk places.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought it was coal from trees, oil from animals?

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought oil was just even more highly compressed coal. Or was that diamonds? I don't know. If it's animals, well, there's something we can do with all the pidgeons!

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Absolutely! And don't get me started on people who complain about speed cameras..

(xpost to dave)

― don (don), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:45 (twenty-one years ago)

i think the pigeons would have to be liquidized and left to sit around for a while before they turn into oil.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:46 (twenty-one years ago)

just a few hundred million years Dave! How impatient are you???

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, isn't it compressed swamps that made oil? Well, global warming will flood the gardens of their big Home Counties estates and turn them into swamps soon enough!

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

can you really say that prices are high because there's not much left of it? I'm not going to make the claim that there are years and years of oil left underground, but I'm just not sure that the high prices right now are caused by a shortage. prices are always fluctuating. a few years ago in the US it was under a dollar a gallon in some places. now it's over double that. seems to have much more to do wtih politics...

as for high gas prices (and only that) leading people to be environmentally safer, does that work well? maybe temporarily. as markH brought up, for all the taxes on oil, how much real government subsidized research into *clean* sources of alternative energy are there? it's kind of ludicrous. meanwhile, can you say that a hybrid car is really worth it on solely an economic basis (ie, if you gave two shits about the environment and only got one because oil prices are high?) these things are still considerably higher priced than regular car and the difference may never actually pay off. that said, i'd sure as hell like to have one.

finally, this offshore wind farm thing is are ludicrous. capewind are they really in the way? these fuckers are placed 1/3rd of a mile apart and on a shoal. how much fishing can you do on a shoal anyway?

― AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

compressed swamps made peat, didn't they?

As for Petrol prices. Oil gets more expensive. Therefore Petrol gets more expensive.

So people complain. What is the point? It is the way it works! Things get more expensive when there isn't enough to go around...

Aaron - there is less of it. I can't remember the figures of how much is left, but with China growing as it is they reckon about 30 years (I will check with a guy round the corner). But if they bring less out of the ground, there is less about. So the price goes up. The ability of OPEC to manipulate the price by production is the only legal cartel, and just proves how much of a commodity oil is.

― ___ (___), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

it would be great if you could run a car on liquidized pigeon, though.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)

OPEC = One Particularly Evil Cartel!

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Russia and the trans Caucasus are the real growth areas...a lot of untapped crude there. There's a big debate about which way the pipelines should go tho......China would want the pipelines to go east thru its territory whilst the US favours a pipeline thru (NATO member) Turkey.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

if cars ran on liquidized pigeon, i'd be learning to drive NOW.

i don't understand the anti-wind farm people at all, it seems that "ooh, but there'll be a swishing noise all day" is their major complaint...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:02 (twenty-one years ago)

The compressed peat turns into coal if you leave it for long enough (ie hundreds of millions of years).

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:02 (twenty-one years ago)

(Funnily enough, there is a National Geographic special issue about OIL lying on the table in the waiting room. Should I nick it to solve our "where does oil come from, peat bogs or pidgeons" dilemma once and for all?)

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

The Russian/Caucasion crude is of a heavier variety than Middle Eastern oil, isn't it? Part of the reason that those sources are still relatively untapped is that heavy crude is expensive to extract and refine, but as futures prices go up and up and up it becomes more and more economically viable to suck up the front-end costs of extracting heavy oil. I believe this was at least part of the reason that Russia didn't sign the G-8 statement a few weeks ago saying that higher oil prices are a threat to global economic growth.

― rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

PIGEONS DON'T GROW ON TREES Y'KNOW!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

if cars ran on peat, deadly pollution would be an aromatic and comforting-smelling thing.

― Dave Amos, Friday, 4 June 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Dammit, I went back and a small boy was reading it. I KNOW YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY READING IT, YOU DYSLEXIC FUXOR, YOU'RE JUST LOOKING AT THE PICTURES OF PIDGEONS, GIVE IT TO ME NOW!!!

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I prefer the idea of cars running on pigeons.

It also reminds me of one of my long mysteries. I saw two magpies, which is joy. Then one flew in front of a bus and got splatted, leaving one, and sorrow. So do I get sorrow or joy? This has bothered me on and off since the event four years ago.

― ___ (___), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

If you could make oil from compressing pigeons in your garden, the size of each deposit would make it pretty uneconomic to drill for. What you really need to do is squish much larger animals - whales would be ideal.

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

and whales do contain oil!

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Not Whales! You just need to persuade the pigeons into the same place at the same time... start a pigeon rave scene perhaps...

― ___ (___), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Build a giant dovecote. In Eastcote.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

a giant dovecote with loud music and drugs so they don't notice when you switch it on and it turns into a massive blender.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

or begin stem cell research to engineer whale sized pigeons

― Dave Amos, Friday, 4 June 2004 12:18 (twenty-one years ago)

trouble is, they'd have whale sized guano! One poo could kill you!

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

perhaps we could make cars run on wales.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

One poo could kill you!

Look what happened to Elvis!

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually I reckon his grave would be loaded with fossil fuels...

― NickB (NickB), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Previous thoughts on the burning issue of pigeon size: PIGEONS

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.tian.greens.org/WhaleCar.jpg

― ___ (___), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

how about whales the size of pigeons then? it wouldn't help the energy lobby, but they would be free to roam the plentiful seas.

― Dave Amos, Friday, 4 June 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

bbc breakfast this morning showed the prices of petrol adjusted for inflation since the 1970s and it was a very flat graph (2p or so difference (about 3%) in 30 years)

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

how about whales the size of pigeons then?

Herman Melville would not be happy.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

bbc breakfast also said that the price of public transport had doubled in real terms in that period.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Screw Whales, let's burn the Welsh!

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Forget petrol people, think about plastics. We use oil to make plastics, what would we do without it. (And think'pon it before glib answers come rushing back).

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

we need to be selective. Bonnie Tyler and Shakin' Stevens can go, but I think we should spare John Cale.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

How about we just make John Cale into plastics, then? I know it's inevitable that John Cale plastics would EXPLODE but it's worth a chance, isn't it?

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

On thought for the day this morning the god bothere was most amusing. He described a devout three car family wondering if they should pray for peace in the middle east, china to stay backwared and rural, or opec to increase production. The moral message was to sell the cars, take the bus instead, go out for chinese and stop bothering god apart from in broad terms about encourraging respect for the environment.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Humph. I have just made the funniest joke I have ever made on ILX, the one that actually brought tears to my eyes as I was typing it, and NO ONE EVEN LAUGHED.

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Please read this. As I've said before, Kerry bashing Bush for high gas prices is just about the stupidest thing I've seen in the campaign this year.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

You just need to persuade the pigeons into the same place at the same time

It's called Dupont Circle.

― j.lu (j.lu), Friday, 4 June 2004 12:59 (twenty-one years ago)

The petrol price has galvanised me into getting rid of my car, that's a good thing at the very least (anyone want a slightly foxed volkswagen?)

― Ed (dali), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:00 (twenty-one years ago)

passing on /= getting rid of

okay, < /pedant > (for now)

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

anyway, people can protest all the want, won't change the fact that oil prices will just keep going up and up and up. Can't wait for $100 a barrell!

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks for the link hstencil; that's an interesting piece. While I agree that it's ludicrous for Kerry to claim any sort of high ground on this issue, I also think that the solution that the writer proposes at the end of the piece -- a WPA-style offensive on "energy independence," whatever that means -- is equally ludicrous. We're not talking about building highways here. As the writer takes great pains to make clear, were talking about the very lifeblood of the American economy when we talk about oil. It's one thing for a sitting president to propose something like this, but something else entirely for any candidate to pin his political fortunes to turning the way the country does business upside-down inside of four years. It's suicide.

I'm always dubious about Malthusian musings on reserve capacity though. There were many, many articles of this same flavor written in the 1970s. And alot of these doomsday scenarios are coming from the same people (i.e., exploration geologists at big oil companies) who want to open up ANWR to drilling, etc. Obviously these are things we should be thinking about very seriously, but you have to take all the breathlessness with a grain of salt.

― rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

whales the size of pigeons = fish!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno if it's the same people - obv. any exploration geologist knows that whatever reserves ANWR holds are not enough to significantly increase supply. And part of the problem isn't necessarily the world running out of oil as it is the easiest and cheapest areas to drill running out of oil. The deeper and more remote you put a platform, the more expensive it is to drill.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Exactly; I suspect though that if crude stays north of $42 a barrel or so -- which it well might, despite OPEC's symbolic increase in their production caps yesterday -- that you'll see BP and Total and Apache and everybody else rushing into all these far-flung Hudsn Bay fields etc. And the costs of moving and refining that heavy crude will get passed right down the chain to Joe Blow at the pump, summer driving season or not.

― rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)

obv. high prices might open up some cash for exploration, but I'm not sure given how margins are gettings squeezed due to other things. The big oil companies may want to open more areas to drilling, but probably not in "volatile" countries.

Anyway, I haven't been there since last summer but according to people I know that have, almost every oil-bearing hole in West Texas is working right now, unsurprisingly.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

'Thanks for the link hstencil; that's an interesting piece. While I agree that it's ludicrous for Kerry to claim any sort of high ground on this issue, I also think that the solution that the writer proposes at the end of the piece -- a WPA-style offensive on "energy independence," whatever that means -- is equally ludicrous. We're not talking about building highways here. As the writer takes great pains to make clear, were talking about the very lifeblood of the American economy when we talk about oil. It's one thing for a sitting president to propose something like this, but something else entirely for any candidate to pin his political fortunes to turning the way the country does business upside-down inside of four years. It's suicide.'

Just imnagine though if everyone in the states drove a car that was twice as efficient (not difficult) or heated or cooled their homes a couple of degrees less. And those are just the easy solutions. OK so they require a paradigm shift in attitudes but the US has had enoguh of those over the last century.

Once you start getting into alternaticve fueld vehicles, renewables and building that are more than just glass boxes, that have cooling, heating and ventilation built into the design the possibilities are limitless.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh I can imagine Texas is humming. I'm still waiting for the offshore drilling issue to kick back up in Florida; given there's a Bush in residence in Tallahassee I can imagine there's enormous pressure being brought to bear to open up more of the eastern Gulf of Mexico.

By the way, I'm wondering when the big Midwest states switch gasoline blends. I assume this has already happened for summer, but when do they switch back to winter blends? October?

― rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

whales the size of pigeons = fish!

damnation!

― Dave Amos, Friday, 4 June 2004 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

By the way, I'm wondering when the big Midwest states switch gasoline blends. I assume this has already happened for summer, but when do they switch back to winter blends? October?

dunno, I thought Chicago had RFG all year 'round. Didn't that big refinery downstate get blazed in a winter month?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

or even if everyone in america just drove little cars rather than big cars...

for a moment there i thought ANWR was "interweb speak" for anywhere...

Alaskan North West Region?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't own a car, and probably nevah will.
So don't buy fuel myself.
B-b-but: public transport runs on "fuel" also.
Which means: fucked anyway?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Artic National Wildlife Reserve

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

The US is also well placed to grow billions of tons of rapeseed and sunflower to make diesel from, Sugarcane for ethanol and willow for biomass generated electricity.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't own a car, and probably nevah will.
So don't buy fuel myself.
B-b-but: public transport runs on "fuel" also.
Which means: fucked anyway?

do you buy anything made from a petrochemical process? do you buy food?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

>We use oil to make plastics, what would we do without it.

ween ourselves off it as much as possible. use less, reuse where possible (irish plastic bag tax = good idea), recycle what we can (lbhf council collect types 1, 2 and 3 from the doorstep) and just use alternatives like glass or paper (!)

kate, i didn't laugh but i did smile. and whales are mammals.

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Ed I think you're absolutely right, I'm just not going to hold my breath waiting for a President to be a prime mover on energy efficiency. The article hstencil linked to notes that U.S. demand for hybrid autos is growing, so I think that if gasoline stays expensive enough for long enough that will shift the paradigm (though of course when the Big Three put out their sales numbers this week we learned they're also selling more SUVs than ever, so who knows?).

― rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

chip-fat powered cars!!!

(thanks stence)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

oil doesn't have to come out of the ground. You can make pretty good chemical feedstocks from plant material it's just more costly than sucking it out of the ground, or at least it was.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

(i said i wz "fucked anyway", but zat didnnae cheer you up 'nuff'nuff hstencil, wtf??)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

that's true, Ed. I think a breakthrough in synthetic feedstocks is more likely to occur than any new major reserves being found, maybe.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

What I don't understand though is that Bush is very pro farm, so why not provide for farmers by making his buddies at exxon buy up rapeseed to make fuel from. I've never understood why exxon would care where they got oil from, wherever's cheapest is best for business.

Currently fully taxed vegetable oil based fuel in the UK is 75p a litre vs 93p for diesel.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm trying to remember how much vegetable based cooking oil is, but it's been a while since I bought it. You could get a liter of "vegetable oil" for about 43p. Is the rest all taxes? I am starting to see their point, perhaps.

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course all of the islinton SUV drivers will use extra virgin olive oil.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish they would.

― Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

A very interesting/alarming relevant article (scroll down to the part about the book The End of Oil, although the rest is worth reading as well): NYRB: Crossing the Red Line

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Supposedly biodiesel or other vegetable oil-based fuels don't become economically competitive until oil goes above US$50/barrel (I'll check the data I've got at home later).

There are lots of stories about people fueling their cars with used cooking oil that restaurants normally pay to have hauled off and disposed in an ecologically sound way. However, if many more people were to start using this fuel source these sources would soon be exhausted.

― j.lu (j.lu), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

What I don't understand though is that Bush is very pro farm...

only to a point. Kinda reminds me of ethanol subsidies for Iowa, without using the tech for full advantage.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

And here we go again...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/Story/0,,2225276,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=11

― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 10 December 2007 14:24 (seventeen years ago)

We are not aiming to bring the government to its knees, as we did in 2000

Did they ?

― Ste, Monday, 10 December 2007 14:41 (seventeen years ago)

Arseholes

― Tom D., Monday, 10 December 2007 14:42 (seventeen years ago)

well, it's not as good as bringing them to their knees, admittedly.

― darraghmac, Monday, 10 December 2007 14:52 (seventeen years ago)

Check out the beautifully crafted website (with snow!)
http://www.transaction-2007.com/

― Ned Trifle II, Monday, 10 December 2007 14:53 (seventeen years ago)

cute

― Ste, Monday, 10 December 2007 14:55 (seventeen years ago)

*SEVEN* years ago that was?!!

― pisces, Monday, 10 December 2007 14:55 (seventeen years ago)

way back in the day, when Fragma, Madison Avenue and Black Legend ruled the airwaves

― blueski, Monday, 10 December 2007 14:58 (seventeen years ago)

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Fuel Protests - C/D?