Careful with that text, Eugene

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Every step you take...

Dave B (daveb), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:26 (twenty years ago) link

the fuck? paranoia will be the death of us all

the surface noise for the sake of noise (electricsound), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:32 (twenty years ago) link

That would be hysterically funny if it weren't so scary thinking about how we are living in a surveillance state.

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:32 (twenty years ago) link

OTM. What the fuck?

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:33 (twenty years ago) link

I mean, it doesn't say if he's a drummer or not (drummers are potentially stupid enough to send a text to a woman in Bristol by mistake) but I don't buy the story of the "woman in Bristol" - I find it more believable that police are monitoring our text messages.

I mean, obviously, that's why it took so long, because they were filtering through a month's worth of text flirting and requests for a pint of milk on the way home.

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:36 (twenty years ago) link

Altogether now:

"I fought the law and - the law accepted my explanation and let me go, but not before suggesting that I be careful about where I send such messages in future."

Matt Thurgood (Matt T), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:38 (twenty years ago) link

"I'm all lost in the supermarket and I can't find the milk! xoxoxoxox"

stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:39 (twenty years ago) link

When they kick at your front door, how you gonna come, with your hands on your head or on the buttons of your phone?

Doesn't quite have the same ring (tone)...

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:40 (twenty years ago) link

"I'm all lost in the supermarket"

= "I am outnumbered by the yankee imperialist soldiers"

and I can't find the milk! xoxoxoxox"

= "please send more ground-to-air missiles now thx"

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:41 (twenty years ago) link

If that happened in the US he'd still be in jail right now, guaranteed.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:43 (twenty years ago) link

i pity the fule who txts "i'm so bored with the u.s.a."

stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 4 June 2004 11:44 (twenty years ago) link

but I don't buy the story of the "woman in Bristol" - I find it more believable that police are monitoring our text messages.

tinfoil fucking hat already

read the Human Rights Act, UK'ers
GCHQ does not have the time or the legal right to observe your communications
I'd be more bothered if I was Irish and bought a 3G mobile recently

TOMBOT, Friday, 4 June 2004 13:03 (twenty years ago) link

However, The Sun also quotes Chris Dobson, a terrorism expert, as saying that the interception clearly shows that GCHQ is monitoring all vocal and textual mobile phone traffic.

Well, make that tinfoil hats for two, then. Three, counting the person from the Sun who wrote the article, and four for the person at the Register who reprinted it.

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:21 (twenty years ago) link

yes, that would be four tinfoil hats, then.

TOMBOT, Friday, 4 June 2004 13:24 (twenty years ago) link

even if I didn't know what the hell I was talking about, in what bizarro world does Occam's Razor not fall on the side of "accidentally texted a woman in Bristol who was alarmed and alerted the police" as opposed to "a massive governement surveillance system which automatically flags and tracks any txt msg containing phrases like 'prisoners' 'gun' and 'jetliner' and then the police make up some story about a woman in Bristol when they come to nick you because they don't want to appear to be violating your rights"

average daily text message traffic for the UK, two years ago:
http://www.mda-mobiledata.org/resource/releases/images/2003December.gif

TOMBOT, Friday, 4 June 2004 13:30 (twenty years ago) link

The king called up his jet fighters
He said you better earn your pay
Drop your bombs between the minarets
Down the Casbah way

MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:32 (twenty years ago) link

20 BILLION texts sent in the UK last year.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:34 (twenty years ago) link

But surely GCHQ do have the technology in place to be able to scan the airwaves for certain words or phrases? It's what they do.

C J (C J), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:40 (twenty years ago) link

HELLO ECHELON!

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:40 (twenty years ago) link

the thread title reads like a smiths song title

kephm, Friday, 4 June 2004 13:40 (twenty years ago) link

uh, Pink Floyd, dude?

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:41 (twenty years ago) link

DOH !

kephm, Friday, 4 June 2004 13:44 (twenty years ago) link

I'm sorry but every time somebody brings up "echelon" or the idea that the NS4/6CHQ/D5D/CS3/6C28 is reading all your fucking emails and aim chats and txt msgs to look for things like "prisoner" or "gun" I just want to slap the living shit out of them.

You're not that important, first of all. A highly trained linguist or computer scientist or engineer working to try and sniff out actual threats, on a government paycheck nonetheless, doesn't frankly have the fucking time to read your piddling stupid paranoia and alert the police when it's maybe possible some total nobody is talking about a prison break involving airplanes with no correlating info whatsoever.

Second of all much as it disgusts you all to believe it there are LAWS such as the 4th amendment and the HRA which expressly prevent the government from intercepting or monitoring the communications of its citizens, and government employees are required to abide by them.

Third of all MarkH should be getting a knock on his door any second now I'd imagine, shouldn't he.

TOMBOT, Friday, 4 June 2004 13:46 (twenty years ago) link

I would've agreed with you, Tom, pre-Padilla.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:47 (twenty years ago) link

If they were to be keeping logs, it wld be clearly loads less effort to LOOK AT THE CONTEXT OF THE MESSAGE IN THEIR LOGS than to send people round? I mean, surely.

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:48 (twenty years ago) link

60 million message * 100 chars per message (say) = 6 trillion characters = 6 GB approx. That's actually *not* that much raw data to wade through if all you were doing is searching for instances of words. HOWEVER, the actual checking of the context of each instance would be astronomically expensive, and involve so many people that it'd be extremely difficult to keep secret, given that it's illegal. That's even before we even get to the problems of gathering the data in the first place.

Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:48 (twenty years ago) link

"Terry, Terry! Come here! I've found another cunt dumping his girlfriend by text!"

"That's it, I've had enough of these weak bastards. Send some people round. We'll plant some uranium in his freezer and get him sent down."

"Righto!"

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:49 (twenty years ago) link

What sort of a damn fool terrorist sends emails in plain text going "yeah, we're going to hijack the 9am BA flight out of Heathrow and crash it into 1 Canada Square while simultaneously positioning suicide bombers on all major tube lines" anyway?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:51 (twenty years ago) link

If the intelligence services do not see this thread and shut down ILX within five minutes I am leaving the country. It's just not safe.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:52 (twenty years ago) link

One who can't remember Clash lyrics.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:52 (twenty years ago) link

That's you on the list next, matt dc.

(x-post, clash lyrics = teh sukc)

3ch3l0n, fux0rz (Pashmina), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:53 (twenty years ago) link

I don't give a shit if you agree with me or not, hstencil, because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about in any sense of the word, and I do. I'm through trying to explain this to you, you seem to think going "HELLO ECHELON" is still funny on some frat-boy shanty kind of level I suppose.

The Clash are awesome.

Cheeseboiger!!

TOMBOT, Friday, 4 June 2004 13:54 (twenty years ago) link

Yes but Tom, YOU'RE ONE OF THEM! HOW CAN WE TRUST ANYTHING YOU SAY?!

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:55 (twenty years ago) link

Because I know my Clash.

TOMBOT, Friday, 4 June 2004 13:57 (twenty years ago) link

Tom I'll totally admit I don't know what I'm talking about if you'll just calm down. Geez.

Anyway, I think we can both agree that, despite the cliche-edness of it, September 11th did "change everything," including law enforcement and intelligence gathering.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:58 (twenty years ago) link

he can't be ONE OF THEM, he looks so butch and macho...

CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:59 (twenty years ago) link

One who can't remember Clash lyrics.

"A big boy did it and ran away."

j.lu (j.lu), Friday, 4 June 2004 13:59 (twenty years ago) link

> Third of all MarkH should be getting a knock on his door any second now I'd imagine, shouldn't he.

he's gone very quiet. = he's obviously be grabbed by the rozzers.

koogs (koogs), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago) link

Second of all much as it disgusts you all to believe it there are LAWS such as the 4th amendment and the HRA which expressly prevent the government from intercepting or monitoring the communications of its citizens, and government employees are required to abide by them.

You know what? There are laws about who gets to invade what country and when. There are laws about the treatment of civilians, and military prisoners during said invasions. There are laws about all sorts of things that the US and other governments DISREGARD EVERY SINGLE DAY, so if they can ignore International Law they can ignore whatever law it suits them to ignore. Including the "fourth amendment" which we don't have in this country, by the way, it not being America. You should know this, having actually been here now.

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:14 (twenty years ago) link

I still have my freedom - for now.

There are laws about all sorts of things that the US and other governments DISREGARD EVERY SINGLE DAY

indeed - but another way of looking at international law is - what's the point of writing laws if you have no police?

MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:17 (twenty years ago) link

what's the point of writing laws if you have no police?

What is the point of writing laws if the self-proclaimed "police of the world" are totally corrupt and self serving?

Saying "there are laws against that thing!!!" does not negate the fact that people can and still do it.

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:19 (twenty years ago) link

Kate I'm going to just presume that you do not actually intend to insult my friends, co-workers and colleagues with all of these comments, remind you that I mentioned the HRA which provides similar restrictions in the UK if I recall correctly, and move on.

xpost The neat thing about those golf balls is that inside they're just regular dish antennae! the covers are there so you can't see where they're pointing and to keep the weather off.

xpost Jon is it possible there are any small images on google?

TOMBOT, Friday, 4 June 2004 14:22 (twenty years ago) link

mods are better at impersonating you, jon.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:25 (twenty years ago) link

OK, I'm reinforcing my tinfoil hat with the stuff they use for jock straps in case one of those golfballs hits me.

x-post. I'm not insulting anyone. Who am I insulting if I say "there are laws against murder, but people get killed every day!" ?

Laws exist. Not everyone follows them.

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:25 (twenty years ago) link

T/S Jose Padilla vs. Kevin Mitnick (that would have been long before 9/11 hmmm)

TOMBOT, Friday, 4 June 2004 14:26 (twenty years ago) link

I don't know enough about the Mitnick case to comment on whether the government used illegal means to gain evidence.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:29 (twenty years ago) link

and obv. the "secret" courts where "secret" evidence can be served were established by the Clinton Admin prior to 9/11.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:31 (twenty years ago) link

two close older relatives of mine that worked in aluminum-related industries got Alzheimer's.

I wrote a piece on Alcoa's development of a $1 BN alumina facility in Trinidad for this week's issue.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:37 (twenty years ago) link

I like how Brits pronounce it. Ah-loo-min-ee-yum!

HAMBURGER NEURON GROUP (ex machina), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:38 (twenty years ago) link

You're not that important, first of all.

Aw, man.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:38 (twenty years ago) link

ah-luh-min-ee-um.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:39 (twenty years ago) link

how do the brits pronounce "alumina?" or "bauxite?"

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:41 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.nogw.com/aluminum.html


What do chemtrails, water pollution, and toothpaste all have in common. You guessed it. In fact, the exposure to the metal is reaching epidemic proportions. So what's the big deal you might ask. Well, new studies have suggested that aluminum may be the most toxic substance known to man, even more deadly than mercury or plutonium. Aluminum and heavy metals in your brain may also be acting as an antennae to receive mind control suggestions from the government.

HAMBURGER NEURON GROUP (ex machina), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:41 (twenty years ago) link

hahahaha awesome! now that's some tinfoil hat action for sure.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:42 (twenty years ago) link

* Early symptoms of aluminum toxicity include: flatulence, headaches, colic, dryness of skin and mucous membranes, tendency for colds, burning pain in head relieved by food, heartburn and an aversion to meat.

OK, so finally, proof positive that vegetarianism is caused by an obsessive belief in conspiracies, and not the other way around! Hurrah!

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:43 (twenty years ago) link

omg I totally have those symptoms! Fuck!

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:44 (twenty years ago) link

Didn't they prove that aluminium was fluffy and fun and not bad for you at all?

Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:19 (twenty years ago) link

maybe if ALCOA sponsored the study.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:20 (twenty years ago) link

OK, seriously, Kate, hstencil, I love you guys both but from your posts on repeated threads like this, I can only assume one of the following:

A) You are both the biggest egomaniacs alive to think that anyone besides maybe some crazy ex you had, 3 years ago, is interested in reading your emails
B) YOU ARE BOTH TERRORISTS

I mean, seriously, do you know how much manpower that would actually take anyway? There is absolutely no way in hell that, if the governments of our respective countries were partaking in massive-scale texting/email reading of the citizens, they could keep it secret because it would just require the utilization of far too many people to get the job done. Think of how much effort it takes for major corporations to start putting in email filtering/monitoring programs in place--and that is just for ONE server/domain and ONE company and only, at most, several hundred thousand people, not an entire globe of people...

Allyzay, Friday, 4 June 2004 15:48 (twenty years ago) link

you are totally misunderstanding me, I am not worried that anyone's reading my emails, but to think that sophisticated security techniques are in place to read emails/txts/whatever is pure ostrichism.

I also hate to posit this, but I am somewhat baffled that a two-word reference to Echelon can inspire so much bile yet making jokes about your breasts somehow is funny? Please explain that to me, or don't, I don't really care, but I do admit I find it puzzling.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:55 (twenty years ago) link

okay, I retract that last paragraph.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:57 (twenty years ago) link

i just read a disturbing email from one of the xbxrx members about how their ex-bassist, who happens to be in the navy these days, was pulled aside in some special room and shown a bunch of XB stuff and questioned over what it meant... most of the stuff from way after he was involved...

freakin insane! this guy's name wasn't even explicitly written in any of the liner notes... the intell. people would have had to systematically delve and delve hard to find out who this guy was.

which, if any of this is remotely true, there's somebody out there who hangs out and is into fringe music specifically to have all the ins and outs on who's saying what about the government. somebody gets paid to analyze born against lyrics.

weird. paranoid?
m.

msp, Friday, 4 June 2004 20:17 (twenty years ago) link

born against lyrics don't take that much analyzation!

THOUGHT CRIMINALS.

Ian Johnson (orion), Friday, 4 June 2004 23:59 (twenty years ago) link

It is of course impossible to imagine that he told any of his fellow shipmates he used to be in such and such a band and they then told their LPO about said band's apparent leanings, leading to an investigation. I mean, that makes about as much sense as the "Lady from Bristol" story. Ridiculous.

TOMBOT, Saturday, 5 June 2004 02:27 (twenty years ago) link

TOMBOT, not to dispute the soundness of yer basic point -- and given yer work experience, i give yer word credibility here -- but relying on the fourth amendment as a safeguard isn't exactly reassuring. especially since the underlying lesson of fourth amendment jurisprudence is that it is honored more in the breach than in actual practice.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 5 June 2004 02:50 (twenty years ago) link

to put it another way: what would bill rehnquist or tony scalia do if they were presented w/ an official who cut a few corners in getting a search warrant for someone's hard-drive.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 5 June 2004 02:53 (twenty years ago) link

Have you noticed that the person poo-poo-ing our paranoia as "ridiculous" WORKS FOR THE GOVERNMENT?!?! Diversion tactics clearly. Now we know what Tombot does for a living; he monitors emails, text messages and, you guessed it, bulletin boards.

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Saturday, 5 June 2004 05:51 (twenty years ago) link

he doesn't work for the government any more.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 7 June 2004 05:59 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.dts-phile.com/pics/home/ronin-top.jpg

TOMBOT, Monday, 7 June 2004 06:51 (twenty years ago) link

grabbed by the rozzers

I'm sure that's banned under the Geneva Convention.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxpost

Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 7 June 2004 07:20 (twenty years ago) link

You're not that important, first of all. A highly trained linguist or computer scientist or engineer working to try and sniff out actual threats, on a government paycheck nonetheless, doesn't frankly have the fucking time to read your piddling stupid paranoia and alert the police when it's maybe possible some total nobody is talking about a prison break involving airplanes with no correlating info whatsoever.

Right, and guys hauled off the street *are* apparently worth 'interrogating' at some length in Guantanamo, etc. Why the fuck should the fact that these people are ex-co-workers of yours mean shit-all to anyone else?

Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 7 June 2004 07:49 (twenty years ago) link

Point taken, it probably shouldn't. It's just the reason why I take offense to stories like the thread question. Waste of my fucking time arguing with you anyway.

"Guys hauled off the street"

TOMBOT, Monday, 7 June 2004 08:57 (twenty years ago) link

omgwtf

HAMBURGER NEURON GROUP (ex machina), Monday, 7 June 2004 17:17 (twenty years ago) link

Yes they were guys hauled off the street!

Sir Stewart Wallace (Enrique), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 07:26 (twenty years ago) link

Think before you text


DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- A few hours after NBA star Kobe Bryant had sex with a Vail-area hotel worker last summer, the woman exchanged cell phone text messages with a former boyfriend and someone else.

What's in those messages could help determine whether the sex was consensual or whether Bryant is guilty of rape as charged. The judge himself said the content may be "highly relevant" to the case.

HAMBURGER NEURON GROUP (ex machina), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 14:42 (twenty years ago) link


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