Say, what exactly IS the dividing line between Patriotism, Nationalism, and Fascism, anyway?

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...and something tells me that it's gotten a fuck of a lot blurrier over the last 3 years.

i was reminded of this distinction whilst visiting the folks over the weekend; the top 40 Country music station my dad was listening to promised "a full-hour of patriotic music to raise your spirits", which gave me a slight chill.

Fortunately, amongst the Lee Greenwood shite, they also did Ray Charles' "America".

So! When or where exactly do "expressions of patriotism" start to verge into Something Else?

― Kingfish Disraeli (Kingfish), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:58 (twenty years ago) link

I wish we could use a word other than "patriotism" to designate what it is I think you're talking about re: Lee Greenwood. I don't think "fascism" or "nationalism" quite fit the bill, either.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:00 (twenty years ago) link

Patriotism = love of/pride in one's nation
Nationalism = belief that one's nation is superior to all others
Fascism = government based on nationalism

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 4 June 2004 15:02 (twenty years ago) link

Fascism = government based on nationalism

err not quite.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:03 (twenty years ago) link

well, that's the thing, innit? the distinctions and definitions have...eroded? devolved?

heh, or Jello Biafra once ranted "Hold onto Old Glory as you suck your thumb..."

― Kingfish Disraeli (Kingfish), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:04 (twenty years ago) link

I think the fact that "an hour of patriotic music" gives people chills says more about how fucked up our society is than the actual "hour of patriotic music" does.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 4 June 2004 15:04 (twenty years ago) link

no, see, I don't agree that the definitions have devolved at all, but that we need new ones.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:07 (twenty years ago) link

The fact that you think that says more about how fucked up society is says more about etc etc

OR Patriotism has been deservedly unfashionable in the rest of the civilized world since 1945 for good reason.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:10 (twenty years ago) link

because Lee Greenwood is shite

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 4 June 2004 15:11 (twenty years ago) link

x-post, but not really, kinda

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 4 June 2004 15:11 (twenty years ago) link

MORE -ISM'S = JINGOISM

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:55 (twenty years ago) link

Thank you Bill!

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 4 June 2004 16:27 (twenty years ago) link

Why are there three words if they don't mean different things?

Patriotism relates to one's country.

Nationalism relates to one's nation or ethnicity.

Fascism is a corporatist totalitarian political system.

An empire could be fascist without a nationalistic ideology. One could refer to a nationalist party as being un-patriotic if one believed that their sectarian goals would be bad for the country. (I do this all the time) Plenty of people love their country without being nationalists or fascists.

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 4 June 2004 16:36 (twenty years ago) link

The original chauvanism associated with "jingo" was, indeed, Biritsh and, in particular, from the 1877-78 Turko-Russian war in which overt support for the Turks from Great Britain was supported by the following lyrics to a song:

We don't want to fight, but, by jingo, if we do,
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money, too.

Ironically, 'jingo' is probably a euphemism for 'Jesus'.

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 4 June 2004 16:38 (twenty years ago) link

Ironically, 'jingo' is probably a euphemism for 'Jesus'.

sounds like some psuedonym usage that Stephen King would use.

― Kingfish Disraeli (Kingfish), Friday, 4 June 2004 16:49 (twenty years ago) link

ten years pass...

They play the Star-Spangled Banner before they open the gates and let you in at Sesame Place. Fucking SESAME PLACE.

― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 November 2014 15:45 (ten years ago) link

I can think of a better song.

― how's life, Tuesday, 4 November 2014 16:10 (ten years ago) link

I mean people literally stood there hand over heart saluting the flag before they could go in.

― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 4 November 2014 16:12 (ten years ago) link

You're sure it wasn't this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8IHMctrKCg

― how's life, Tuesday, 4 November 2014 16:15 (ten years ago) link

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